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Post by cupcakes on Jan 21, 2018 23:01:07 GMT
tpfkar It's more a case of people like you taking advantage of racism to virtue signal and puff up your own self esteem, whilst implicitly treating non-white people like infants who need to be coddled and cossetted. "Racism is bad" is an easy win. It's picking the low hanging fruit. It's this tunnel-visioned focus on 'racism is really bad and nothing else matters' that gave Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination and resulted in Donald Trump being elected. More like you alt-righters barf out "virtue-signing" and "brownies" and the like to try to prop up your vacuous raw hypocrisies. You can't actually defend your red meat hysterical hyperbole, so you squeal on about "it's really because <whatever crap you feel like shatting out in the moment>". If true, then it is cute, cuddly, fuzzy and multicultural because Muslims are (mostly) brown. That takes precedence over any moral concern.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 21, 2018 23:37:12 GMT
It's more a case of people like you taking advantage of racism to virtue signal and puff up your own self esteem, whilst implicitly treating non-white people like infants who need to be coddled and cossetted. "Racism is bad" is an easy win. It's picking the low hanging fruit. It's this tunnel-visioned focus on 'racism is really bad and nothing else matters' that gave Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination and resulted in Donald Trump being elected. Why does that retard insist on replying to me? He has been on ignore for 9 months or so. Baffling.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 21, 2018 23:39:53 GMT
tpfkar It's more a case of people like you taking advantage of racism to virtue signal and puff up your own self esteem, whilst implicitly treating non-white people like infants who need to be coddled and cossetted. "Racism is bad" is an easy win. It's picking the low hanging fruit. It's this tunnel-visioned focus on 'racism is really bad and nothing else matters' that gave Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination and resulted in Donald Trump being elected. Why does that retard insist on replying to me? He has been on ignore for 9 months or so. Baffling. I reply to repetitive overwrought campy idiots especially. Masculinity was just fine until regressives decided White Straight Men were somewhere between Hitler and fecal matter.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jan 22, 2018 2:03:55 GMT
For the interested (and lazy), here's the essentials: TBH, I'm not sure how compelling I find this argument in terms of "doubting" the polls; it's really just reducing the scope of the poll from "British Muslims" to "British Muslims in Muslim-concentrated areas," without providing any evidence that there would be any difference between them. I'd agree there might be, but that's not much of a basis to condemn the poll on. Still, it would be nice if there was another poll that could control for that variable (or even just test that specific variable). Not only that, but we also don't know the questions asked. My distrust of polls comes from reading Walter Krämer's excellent book "So lügt man mit Statistik" (how to lie with statistics), where an entire chapter is devoted to how formulating poll questions influences the result. He starts with an example about how in one survey, 95% of the German working population were against working on Saturdays, and in another survey from the same time, 72% were not against working on Saturdays. The answer: Two different polls. One conducted on the behalf of unions, the other on the behalf of employers. And the questions were formulated in a way to generate the desired results. To paraphrase Krämer: These polls don't want to measure opinions, they want to make it. Their numbers are best kept in the wastepaper basket. Therefore, when a poll says something about 36% in favour of the death penalty for apostasy, then I say: This number means nothing before I know what question was asked, and what possible answers there were. Good point, but then this begs the question about what the correct questions would be in order to determine the validity of the answers in any given poll.
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Post by goz on Jan 22, 2018 4:34:50 GMT
If the religious always out breed the non-religious and religion has been around for thousands of years... why are there any non-religious people at all?!? Surely they would have all long since disappeared? But we're actually seeing an increase in the non-religious in most western countries as even people born into religious families often reject their family's religion. So regardless of whether or not immigrants come in from Muslim countries or wherever, without a state and the entire structure of the country telling them they have to believe most people will make their own minds up and abandon their faith. Exactly. I find it telling that the posters who paint the boogeyman of islamization of Europe usually don't mention Spain, which at one time became a place under Islamic rule. And where is Spain today? From Wiki "Catholic Christianity is by far the largest religion in Spain. According to a study by the Spanish Centre for Sociological Research, in September 2017, 70.2% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholic Christians, 2.6% as followers of other faiths (including Islam, Protestant Christianity and Buddhism etc.), and 25.0% identify as atheists or non-believers.[1] Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious worship. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 60.6% barely ever goes to mass, 13.5% go to mass few times a year, 8.2% few times per month, 14.6% every Sunday, and 1.7% multiple times per week.[1] Although a majority of Spaniards are Catholics, most, especially those of the young generation, ignore the Church's moral doctrines on issues such as pre-marital sex, sexual orientation or contraception.[2][3][4][5] The total number of parish priests has shrunk from 24,300 in 1975 to 19,307 in 2005. The number of nuns also dropped by 6.9% to 54,160 between 2000 and 2005. Islam in Spain doesn't even rate a separate mention.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2018 8:27:00 GMT
It's more a case of people like you taking advantage of racism to virtue signal and puff up your own self esteem, whilst implicitly treating non-white people like infants who need to be coddled and cossetted. "Racism is bad" is an easy win. It's picking the low hanging fruit. It's this tunnel-visioned focus on 'racism is really bad and nothing else matters' that gave Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination and resulted in Donald Trump being elected. Why does that retard insist on replying to me? He has been on ignore for 9 months or so. Baffling. He would hardly have anyone to post to, if he excluded those who had him on ignore.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 22, 2018 11:34:30 GMT
Did you seriously just do what I think you just did? Pretend I said 400 million instead of 140 million so you could justify your "authoritative", but nevertheless crap, analysis by pretending that mine was just as bad if not worse? I never thought I'd say it, but you have defined an entirely new level of hubristic stupidity, beyond anything that even Blade could ever achieve. But thanks for the piece of mansplaining to inform me that the UK population was 65.5m. When I said earlier that 120-140 million was around double the actual value of the UK population I had no idea how wildly inaccurate an estimate that was.
I don't quite follow this opaque prose offered by way of explanation. So again: please just quote where my original link claims that the current population of the UK is 120-140 million, which is what I asked last time, I seem to remember. Is there a problem?
And your aggressive, insulting tone does you no favours.
If you spent half as much effort condemning the Islamophobia shown on this board as you do quibbling over statistics, and obsessing about one link, when the argument has long moved on, I would have more time for you.
Meanwhile, you best remind Thor - of whom you appear a satellite - that you yourself earlier helpfully linked to a Wikipedia article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Demographics
which gives the Muslim percentage of the UK population as: 2014 (estimate) 3,047,000 – 5.4%.
In line with my observation a couple of days ago that "The current UK population is 65.5m, According to the 2011 Census, 2.7 million Muslims live in England and Wales, where they form roughly 5.0% of the general population." The point still being that whether we take these statistics, or those from Pew, as most accurate, it seems highly unlikely that Muslims will be 'taking over' for the foreseeable future -and so our wives and daughters can be considered safe from the (always brown and black) Muslim surge such as which apparently keeps the raging Islamophobes up at night. Which is the point all along.
I hope this helps Thor. His maths certainly needs it, given his latest amusing extrapolations.
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 22, 2018 11:52:51 GMT
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 22, 2018 14:01:25 GMT
Exactly. I find it telling that the posters who paint the boogeyman of islamization of Europe usually don't mention Spain, which at one time became a place under Islamic rule. And where is Spain today? From Wiki "Catholic Christianity is by far the largest religion in Spain. According to a study by the Spanish Centre for Sociological Research, in September 2017, 70.2% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholic Christians, 2.6% as followers of other faiths (including Islam, Protestant Christianity and Buddhism etc.), and 25.0% identify as atheists or non-believers.[1] Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious worship. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 60.6% barely ever goes to mass, 13.5% go to mass few times a year, 8.2% few times per month, 14.6% every Sunday, and 1.7% multiple times per week.[1] Although a majority of Spaniards are Catholics, most, especially those of the young generation, ignore the Church's moral doctrines on issues such as pre-marital sex, sexual orientation or contraception.[2][3][4][5] The total number of parish priests has shrunk from 24,300 in 1975 to 19,307 in 2005. The number of nuns also dropped by 6.9% to 54,160 between 2000 and 2005. Islam in Spain doesn't even rate a separate mention. Goz? You realise that Islam was actively rejected from Spain, right?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 22, 2018 14:03:39 GMT
Did you seriously just do what I think you just did? Pretend I said 400 million instead of 140 million so you could justify your "authoritative", but nevertheless crap, analysis by pretending that mine was just as bad if not worse? I never thought I'd say it, but you have defined an entirely new level of hubristic stupidity, beyond anything that even Blade could ever achieve. But thanks for the piece of mansplaining to inform me that the UK population was 65.5m. When I said earlier that 120-140 million was around double the actual value of the UK population I had no idea how wildly inaccurate an estimate that was.
I don't quite follow this opaque prose offered by way of explanation. So again: please just quote where my original link claims that the current population of the UK is 120-140 million, which is what I asked last time, I seem to remember. Is there a problem?
And your aggressive, insulting tone does you no favours.
If you spent half as much effort condemning the Islamophobia shown on this board as you do quibbling over statistics, and obsessing about one link, when the argument has long moved on, I would have more time for you.
Meanwhile, you best remind Thor - of whom you appear a satellite - that you yourself earlier helpfully linked to a Wikipedia article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Demographics
which gives the Muslim percentage of the UK population as: 2014 (estimate) 3,047,000 – 5.4%.
In line with my observation a couple of days ago that "The current UK population is 65.5m, According to the 2011 Census, 2.7 million Muslims live in England and Wales, where they form roughly 5.0% of the general population." The point still being that whether we take these statistics, or those from Pew, as most accurate, it seems highly unlikely that Muslims will be 'taking over' for the foreseeable future -and so our wives and daughters can be considered safe from the (always brown and black) Muslim surge such as which apparently keeps the raging Islamophobes up at night. Which is the point all along.
I hope this helps Thor. His maths certainly needs it, given his latest amusing extrapolations.
Dude, its not my fault you linked to an authoritative study that claimed 2.9m was 2% of the population.
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 22, 2018 16:51:56 GMT
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Post by tickingmask on Jan 22, 2018 23:38:02 GMT
I don't quite follow this opaque prose offered by way of explanation. So again: please just quote where my original link claims that the current population of the UK is 120-140 million, which is what I asked last time, I seem to remember. Ok, you are either exceptionally stupid or you are trolling. But I'll play along. Here's a little quiz to try to clear up your confusion. Take a look at this sentence, which should be familiar to you since you wrote it in at least two different posts: Pew Research finds more generally that the UK's Muslim population is set to rise from 2.9m now to 5.6m in 2030 - up from 2% of the UK population to 4.6%.And now answer the following questions: 1. If 2.9m is 2% of the UK population, what does that imply the population of the UK is? 2. If 5.6m is 4.6% of the UK population, what does that imply the population of the UK is? 3. Assuming the population of the UK is 65.5m, what percentage of this is represented by 2.9m? How does this compare with the value of 2% in the above statement? 4. Assuming the population of the UK is 65.5m, what percentage of this is represented by 5.6m? How does this compare with the value of 4.6% in the above statement? I've added some hints in case you think I am still being opaque. But just for fun, challenge yourself and see if you can work out these answers without any help! Hints: 1. Divide 2.9m by 2%, or 0.02 2. Divide 5.6m by 4.6%, or 0.046 3. Divide 2.9 by 65.5, then multiply by 100 4. Divide 5.6 by 65.5, then multiply by 100
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Post by goz on Jan 23, 2018 1:30:02 GMT
From Wiki "Catholic Christianity is by far the largest religion in Spain. According to a study by the Spanish Centre for Sociological Research, in September 2017, 70.2% of Spaniards self-identify as Catholic Christians, 2.6% as followers of other faiths (including Islam, Protestant Christianity and Buddhism etc.), and 25.0% identify as atheists or non-believers.[1] Most Spaniards do not participate regularly in religious worship. This same study shows that of the Spaniards who identify themselves as religious, 60.6% barely ever goes to mass, 13.5% go to mass few times a year, 8.2% few times per month, 14.6% every Sunday, and 1.7% multiple times per week.[1] Although a majority of Spaniards are Catholics, most, especially those of the young generation, ignore the Church's moral doctrines on issues such as pre-marital sex, sexual orientation or contraception.[2][3][4][5] The total number of parish priests has shrunk from 24,300 in 1975 to 19,307 in 2005. The number of nuns also dropped by 6.9% to 54,160 between 2000 and 2005. Islam in Spain doesn't even rate a separate mention. Goz? You realise that Islam was actively rejected from Spain, right? Well, it was a long historical process, butt it adds weight to the fact that Great Britain is unlikely to be taken over by Muslims as you predict.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2018 1:35:08 GMT
Goz? You realise that Islam was actively rejected from Spain, right? Well, it was a long historical process, butt it adds weight to the fact that Great Britain is unlikely to be taken over by Muslims as you predict. I don't know much about the history of Islam in Spain, but I doubt that at that time, they had any worries about being perceived as racist for rejecting Islam, or being compelled to worship at the alter of diversity.
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Post by goz on Jan 23, 2018 8:30:36 GMT
Well, it was a long historical process, butt it adds weight to the fact that Great Britain is unlikely to be taken over by Muslims as you predict. I don't know much about the history of Islam in Spain, but I doubt that at that time, they had any worries about being perceived as racist for rejecting Islam, or being compelled to worship at the alter of diversity. ...and yet they are now a substantially Catholic country with a sizeable atheist population. It is an observable fact that Islam did not persist let alone expand throughout Europe as the hysterical Islamophobes are predicting nowadays.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 23, 2018 10:53:27 GMT
I don't quite follow this opaque prose offered by way of explanation. So again: please just quote where my original link claims that the current population of the UK is 120-140 million, which is what I asked last time, I seem to remember. Ok, you are either exceptionally stupid or you are trolling. But I'll play along. Here's a little quiz to try to clear up your confusion. Take a look at this sentence, which should be familiar to you since you wrote it in at least two different posts: Pew Research finds more generally that the UK's Muslim population is set to rise from 2.9m now to 5.6m in 2030 - up from 2% of the UK population to 4.6%.And now answer the following questions: 1. If 2.9m is 2% of the UK population, what does that imply the population of the UK is? (etc)
Oh dear, this does seem to occupy you a lot, doesn't it lol? But I see what has happened. The current population of the UK is, officially, 65.5 million. According to the Muslim Council of Britain, Muslims form 4.8% of the population in England and Wales. The population increased from 1.55 million in 2001 to 2.71 million in 2011. I think what exercises you so much was that the projected percentage figure of population for Muslims for 2030 I originally quoted as supposedly representing Pew's figure is incorrect, which is why it is odd. I got it from www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/28/muslim-population-country-projection-2030 where they have jumbled the stats - ironically, given they are just below in table form. They have transposed today's 4.6% figure with the future projection, and so the second half of the sentence you quote above is wrong. Here, for the record, is what Pew actually says the 2030 projection is:
Slightly embarrassing maybe - but then let's remember that nowhere does The Guardian get the numbers of Muslims wrong, while my original argument is hardly affected. You will remember too that I also said, several days ago now, that "Pew's total figures are certainly less than (than those of the census), and I am happy to correct them." And I am still, in any context, as here. But even so, we can see that the corrupted figures, once restored to how they should have read, are near enough correctly reporting the prediction that (8.2%) of 65.5 million in 2030 would total close to 5.4 million. It appears you have been objecting all this time about something quite minor - as if a make-up of an extra 4% of the population, omitted by error, represents a real threat to the country by a minority. Imho - for those who are not Islamophobes and racists at least - it does not. If, btw, The Guardian or I had deliberately misrepresented the total number of projected Muslims in 2030, you might have much more of reason to make so much of it in argument as you have - but you jumped on something far less major in context. I wonder why such a distraction would be so important to you? But I hope this clarification helps, none the less.
So apologies for setting you off on a spiral, and for so long, about just a single, corrupted, half-sentence of stats, and from just one source. Perhaps we can move on now? But then again, none of my links specifically claim that the current population is 120-140million just as I said, or you would have found it and shown it to me, as asked. In fact the suspicion of a statistical error might at least have sent you or Thor scurrying over to Pew's site, as I just did, to see, so it seems neither of you double check sources either, lol. And most importantly, neither set of numbers, Pew or Census, as already said several times, show Muslims 'about to take over'. Especially when we see the wider global perspective, that:
It is also arguable that a falling world-wide Muslim population growth would have an effect on immigration (especially of those darn brown and black folk, those insisting on joining their families here say, the fear of which apparently drives so much hate and trepidation among nationalists) since there will be fewer born to come in. So it appears Islamophobes are really worrying and agitating about a non-existent wider trend in general, although the growth in the UK is certainly striking for most level-headed people, if not threatening. Which.Is.Still.The.Point against Thor's original sensationalist claims. Such diversions aside as we have here enjoyed, of course But I think you really know it, as much as I - even if Thor and his ilk don't.
I hope all this allows you to move on to more fruitful, and less time-wasting, postings than obsessing about one half of a corrupted sentence and, more importantly now gives you a, belated, opportunity to finally condemn Islamophobia..
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 23, 2018 17:53:27 GMT
Goz? You realise that Islam was actively rejected from Spain, right? Well, it was a long historical process, butt it adds weight to the fact that Great Britain is unlikely to be taken over by Muslims as you predict. Goz, it was a period of open warfare. That is how the Christians got their lands back. Are you proposing we take up arms against the growth of Islam?
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Post by thorshairspray on Jan 23, 2018 18:06:50 GMT
FilmFlaneur www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/. Here is more from Pew, putting the Islamic population at 10% by 2050. Even if we drastically reduced or entirely stopped immigration.With continued high levels of immigration the figure could be as high as 17% Combine that with reports that the population at large shows only 47% of people claiming to be religious. Down 1/3 from the 80's. Amongst people under 24 the numbers of Christian is tiny, around 20% So Islam is growing and Christianity declining, meaning you could well see Islam replace Christianity by the 2080's
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Post by cupcakes on Jan 23, 2018 18:28:33 GMT
tpfkar FilmFlaneur www.pewforum.org/2017/11/29/europes-growing-muslim-population/. Here is more from Pew, putting the Islamic population at 10% by 2050. Even if we drastically reduced or entirely stopped immigration.With continued high levels of immigration the figure could be as high as 17% Combine that with reports that the population at large shows only 47% of people claiming to be religious. Down 1/3 from the 80's. Amongst people under 24 the numbers of Christian is tiny, around 20% So Islam is growing and Christianity declining, meaning you could well see Islam replace Christianity by the 2080's Should work on integrating and stressing secular values, esp. with the younger generations. The bugaboo-suckling good old (for some) days pining is only going to alienate more & exacerbate. There is a serious problem within the Muslim Asian community when it comes to the sexual abuse of young girls(mainly white).
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Post by goz on Jan 23, 2018 19:56:17 GMT
Well, it was a long historical process, butt it adds weight to the fact that Great Britain is unlikely to be taken over by Muslims as you predict. Goz, it was a period of open warfare. That is how the Christians got their lands back. Are you proposing we take up arms against the growth of Islam? Could you BE any more desperate and stupid? a) That period (and beyond) in Europe was a period of open warfare with MANY warring groups that are both political/tribal and/or religious. b) That you would even contemplate comparing the current modern situation with Medieval history is laughable and doesn't reflect well on either your knowledge, intelligence or good sense. You really shouldn't have opened this can of worms as it does the opposite to proving your cause of Islamophobia. European history is one of my interests because of my unique family history and I have just come back from Spain in June 2017, To simplify broadly: From Wiki: "When did the Muslims conquer Spain? Outline. In 711 Muslim forces invaded and in seven years conquered the Iberian peninsula. It became one of the great Muslim civilisations; reaching its summit with the Umayyad caliphate of Cordovain the tenth century. Muslim rule declined after that and ended in 1492 when Granada was conquered.Sep 4, 2009 BBC - Religions - Islam: Muslim Spain (711-1492) www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/islam/history/spain_1.shtmlSearch for: When did the Muslims conquer Spain? When Muslims were expelled from Spain? The Expulsion of the Moriscos (Spanish: Expulsión de los moriscos, Catalan: Expulsió dels moriscos) was decreed by King Philip III of Spain on April 9, 1609. The Moriscos were descendants of Spain's Muslim population that had converted to Christianity by coercion or by Royal Decree in the early 16th century." The Islamic time in Spain is one of complexity and lasted from the 8th to the 17th century. Please note that many Muslims converted (albeit by decree) and the irrefutable fact is now that there are negligible numbers Muslims in Spain. This is hardly a harbinger of Muslims taking over modern UK or Europe.
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