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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 15:05:28 GMT
Do you agree that Revenge of the Sith was the weakest film of the Prequels?
I think it was. And I've noticed as time has gone on and over a decade has passed by since Episode III came out, this has very slowly started to become consensus among the fandom and especially more hardcore PT fans like myself. Now don't get me wrong, just because Revenge of the Sith is the weakest film of the Prequels or possibly the weakest film of the original six films doesn't at all make a bad movie. None of George Lucas' Star Wars films are bad, it's just that Revenge of the Sith happened to be much less expressive and amazing than the previous five films that followed it.
The reason I consider Revenge of the Sith the weakest of the Prequels is because I feel like it was the most corporate and risk-free film to make of the three and I felt George just pandered and gave in to what he thought the fans after the very mixed reviews of the first two Prequels. That and add to the fact that it was thought to be the last Star Wars film ever at the time and serve as the complete conclusion to the Prequels and finally tell us how Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader and it just felt like Lucas and co. just wanted to go out with a giant bang. All the complaints about the Prequels having bad dialogue, wooden acting, being more "toyetic" (I hate that word), or filled with plot holes can be solely traced back to this movie.
I also consider Episode III to be the point where the Star Wars brand was slowly morphing into what is today. Just look no further than at all the Darth Vader and OT-based merchandise that came with the movie and you can tell the seeds were already planted there for what was to come to for this franchise. It was the point where Star Wars would star to cash-in on nostalgia and people just wanted to relive their 80's childhoods - peaking at all time high with The Force Awakens and Rogue One - and hopefully finally starting to die out now.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Dec 30, 2017 18:28:55 GMT
Do you agree that Revenge of the Sith was the weakest film of the Prequels? I don't think that's the consensus at all. I've found that everyone agrees that AOTC was the worst, though IMO it was TPM.
TPM was also the most useless and unnecessary. As much as I liked Qui Gon as a character, how is he important in the long run? They could have just started the story with ObiWan and Anakin already together as Master and Apprentice and moved on from there.
ROTS has the most action and the most significant moments in it as Palpatines plan comes to fruition and Anakin actually becomes Vader. Of the three its the only one I re-watch, as I cant stand the other two, especially TPM.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Dec 30, 2017 21:42:59 GMT
Do you agree that Revenge of the Sith was the weakest film of the Prequels? I don't think that's the consensus at all. I've found that everyone agrees that AOTC was the worst, though IMO it was TPM.
If you go by site ratings like Imdb et al TPM is the lowest rated by audience and critics. He is important. In the long run Qui Gon introduced concepts like the Living Force and he was the first to connect with the Jedi as Forst ghost (subtly in Ep II calling out to Anakin, expressly in III with Yoda). Also, he was the central protagonist character in TPM who identified and believed in Anakin against the Counsel and Obi Wan. His death added gravity and caused Obi Wan to take over the role as mentor too early. Arguably, without his death history would have been different. That would be as leaving out the first act in a play. This film shows the bright heyday of the Republic before the twilight and downfall. It implements the central conflicts, like Palps corrupting and manipulating business and politicians to get into a position of power. Or Anakin as a selfless, good person but with strongly developed attachments (mother) that are forbidden by the Jedi, and which will cause his downfall.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2017 22:39:53 GMT
He is important. In the long run Qui Gon introduced concepts like the Living Force and he was the first to connect with the Jedi as Forst ghost (subtly in Ep II calling out to Anakin, expressly in III with Yoda) And if the ST storytellers have any brains (I'm not saying they do, we'll see) his journey with the knowledge of the Whills that so many don't see in the characters of Yoda and Obi-Wan from the PT to the OT (but are absolutely there for those who look), and referenced so heavily in TLJ, will come to fruition in Ep IX. Or of course JJ could trash it after Johnson did such a great job of reviving that message, storytellers are like that.
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Post by politicidal on Dec 31, 2017 1:08:54 GMT
No.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 2, 2018 19:57:01 GMT
I don't think that's the consensus at all. I've found that everyone agrees that AOTC was the worst, though IMO it was TPM.
If you go by site ratings like Imdb et al TPM is the lowest rated by audience and critics. He is important. In the long run Qui Gon introduced concepts like the Living Force and he was the first to connect with the Jedi as Forst ghost (subtly in Ep II calling out to Anakin, expressly in III with Yoda). Also, he was the central protagonist character in TPM who identified and believed in Anakin against the Counsel and Obi Wan. His death added gravity and caused Obi Wan to take over the role as mentor too early. Arguably, without his death history would have been different. That would be as leaving out the first act in a play. This film shows the bright heyday of the Republic before the twilight and downfall. It implements the central conflicts, like Palps corrupting and manipulating business and politicians to get into a position of power. Or Anakin as a selfless, good person but with strongly developed attachments (mother) that are forbidden by the Jedi, and which will cause his downfall. I get what you're saying. But consider this: a) Everything you associate to QuiGons importance could have just been given to ObiWan and Yoda without needing to create yet another character in QuiGon. b) Your point of leaving out the first act of a play is inaccurate in this case. In my play AOTC would BE the first act. All the elements you ascribe to TPM would have been done in AOTC. With imaginative and clever writing you could do all of that in one movie. Clever and imaginative writing is what was missing from TPM. Those movies, TPM in particular, are just CGI showcases. Don't get me started.
Here's what I would have done: AOTC would have been my Episode 1. A movie set firmly in the middle of the Clone Wars would have been my Episode 2. and Episode 3 would still have been ROTS.
Other than that the only major difference I would have made would be to have Anakin turn into Darth Vader sooner so we could actually see him as Vader kicking some Jedi ass instead of just one scene with him going "NOOOOOOO!" (a movie I still hope happens one day - Darth Vader: A Star Wars Story!).
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Post by mcufan on Jan 8, 2018 15:38:41 GMT
If you go by site ratings like Imdb et al TPM is the lowest rated by audience and critics. He is important. In the long run Qui Gon introduced concepts like the Living Force and he was the first to connect with the Jedi as Forst ghost (subtly in Ep II calling out to Anakin, expressly in III with Yoda). Also, he was the central protagonist character in TPM who identified and believed in Anakin against the Counsel and Obi Wan. His death added gravity and caused Obi Wan to take over the role as mentor too early. Arguably, without his death history would have been different. That would be as leaving out the first act in a play. This film shows the bright heyday of the Republic before the twilight and downfall. It implements the central conflicts, like Palps corrupting and manipulating business and politicians to get into a position of power. Or Anakin as a selfless, good person but with strongly developed attachments (mother) that are forbidden by the Jedi, and which will cause his downfall. I get what you're saying. But consider this: a) Everything you associate to QuiGons importance could have just been given to ObiWan and Yoda without needing to create yet another character in QuiGon. b) Your point of leaving out the first act of a play is inaccurate in this case. In my play AOTC would BE the first act. All the elements you ascribe to TPM would have been done in AOTC. With imaginative and clever writing you could do all of that in one movie. Clever and imaginative writing is what was missing from TPM. Those movies, TPM in particular, are just CGI showcases. Don't get me started.
Here's what I would have done: AOTC would have been my Episode 1. A movie set firmly in the middle of the Clone Wars would have been my Episode 2. and Episode 3 would still have been ROTS.
Other than that the only major difference I would have made would be to have Anakin turn into Darth Vader sooner so we could actually see him as Vader kicking some Jedi ass instead of just one scene with him going "NOOOOOOO!" (a movie I still hope happens one day - Darth Vader: A Star Wars Story!).
I agree. Condense tpm and AOTC in a nimble movie and go to the start of CW, Episode 2 in the height of CW (like the cartoon) and ROTS like it is.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 8, 2018 19:47:27 GMT
I get what you're saying. But consider this: a) Everything you associate to QuiGons importance could have just been given to ObiWan and Yoda without needing to create yet another character in QuiGon. b) Your point of leaving out the first act of a play is inaccurate in this case. In my play AOTC would BE the first act. All the elements you ascribe to TPM would have been done in AOTC. With imaginative and clever writing you could do all of that in one movie. Clever and imaginative writing is what was missing from TPM. Those movies, TPM in particular, are just CGI showcases. Don't get me started.
Here's what I would have done: AOTC would have been my Episode 1. A movie set firmly in the middle of the Clone Wars would have been my Episode 2. and Episode 3 would still have been ROTS.
Other than that the only major difference I would have made would be to have Anakin turn into Darth Vader sooner so we could actually see him as Vader kicking some Jedi ass instead of just one scene with him going "NOOOOOOO!" (a movie I still hope happens one day - Darth Vader: A Star Wars Story!).
I agree. Condense tpm and AOTC in a nimble movie and go to the start of CW, Episode 2 in the height of CW (like the cartoon) and ROTS like it is. ^^^this^^^ We could have gotten a great Clone Wars movie in the PT, instead we got just the tip of the beginning and the tip of the end. We just got two tips!
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Post by mcufan on Jan 8, 2018 19:58:14 GMT
I agree. Condense tpm and AOTC in a nimble movie and go to the start of CW, Episode 2 in the height of CW (like the cartoon) and ROTS like it is. ^^^this^^^ We could have gotten a great Clone Wars movie in the PT, instead we got just the tip of the beginning and the tip of the end. We just got two tips!
And we wanted the full thrust not just the tips... Right? Right?
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 8, 2018 21:42:29 GMT
^^^this^^^ We could have gotten a great Clone Wars movie in the PT, instead we got just the tip of the beginning and the tip of the end. We just got two tips!
And we wanted the full thrust not just the tips... Right? Right? And I thought I was forward!
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Post by HorrorMetal on May 9, 2018 15:16:31 GMT
Hell no, it's by far the best of the three and the only one I can rewatch without getting bored or irritated.
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