|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 31, 2017 8:13:56 GMT
Interesting, because my journey from Christian to atheist took years of doubt, brief explorations of other religions and finally one pivotal experience that was the final nail in the coffin. Even then I still identified as an agnostic atheist, as agnosticism states that it is not possible to know, based on available evidence, if there a a god, and if there is, the nature of that god. At what age did this epiphany happen? How many years were you a Christian when this happened? Age 38 when I rejected Christianity. About 20 years (as a practicing Christian) So you were 'saved' at age 18? I was born into it, accepted salvation at age twelve, started doubting at age 20, became an agnostic atheist in my forties and hard core atheist a few years ago. I am now 64.
|
|
|
Post by Vegas on Dec 31, 2017 17:17:49 GMT
Sooooooooooo.... How'z the hangover?
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Dec 31, 2017 17:20:42 GMT
Age 38 when I rejected Christianity. About 20 years (as a practicing Christian) So you were 'saved' at age 18? I was born into it, accepted salvation at age twelve, started doubting at age 20, became an agnostic atheist in my forties and hard core atheist a few years ago. I am now 64. My family was pseudo-religious (Christians on Easter, Christmas, and when grandma visited), but not really fully devout or anything, so I never really grew up with it. I was never baptized or anything. It wasn’t until several personal tragedies and life experiences that I began to seek out a higher power and greater meaning. And for a long period of my life, it worked for me. But I was always a skeptic trying to make Christianity “fit” with science. And the more I learned about both, the more I realized that it was cognitive dissonance. There were just too many incongruities (scientific and moral/ethical ones) for me, especially given the history of Christianity and it’s people. There are a number of fundamentally (pardon the pun) “wrong” ideas embedded in Christianity. Concepts like: 1) Love the sinner, hate the sin! That philosophy has never been compelling because it cannot logically be applied. EVER! Christians convince themselves that this is what they are doing when they shun people whose lifestyle they disagree with, but the reality is, shunning is a demonstrable form of hate. If you speak ill about Jews, or Muslims, or atheists, or gays, and call them lost, and sinners, and abominations, yet still claim to “love” them, you are fooling yourself and indeed engaging in cognitive dissonance. If you treat certain kinds of “sinners” differently than you treat Christian, white, heterosexual sinners, then you’re a hypocrite. And this is something it seems most Christians cannot understand. 2) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The so-called “golden rule” is supposedly the standard of morality that everyone should live by. But in the first place, very few Christians in my experience have ever actually done this. Most Christians don’t want to be judged, or condemned, or gossiped about, or have their right to marry, or adopt, or join the military challenged in a court. Yet, they tend to actively favor legislation that does exactly that to others. Simultaneously, you don’t often hear them say anything about things like divorce. In the second place, the golden rule is an inherently conceded and morally devoid concept. It assumes that other people want to be treated like you do. How about treat others as THEY want to be treated? Maybe I don’t want you to “pray” for me (which Christians often claim they will do, but it’s only a patronizing expression). Maybe instead I want you to empathize with my position, offer some helpful advice if solicited, and mind your business if/when things don’t concern you. Maybe that’s not how you’d want to be treated, but it’s what I want. Maybe it’s more “moral” to allow people the dignity of controlling their own destiny instead of dictating what’s best for them. No, I don’t need “Jesus”, I need an actual human friend capable of providing compassion and assistance, instead of judgement and hindrance. Christianity ultimately depends on the notion that humans are inherently bad, impotent to help themselves, and naturally inclined to harm themselves, others, and society at large. This is a very foul outlook on what it means to be human, and it is a morbid, self fulfilling prophecy that I don’t subscribe to. For this reason among many others, I now recognize Christianity as an immoral belief system that is antithetical to individual or sociological progress and prosperity.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Dec 31, 2017 17:21:38 GMT
Sooooooooooo.... How'z the hangover? No hangover. I know how to manage my alcohol intake.
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on Dec 31, 2017 17:56:42 GMT
So you were 'saved' at age 18? I was born into it, accepted salvation at age twelve, started doubting at age 20, became an agnostic atheist in my forties and hard core atheist a few years ago. I am now 64. My family was pseudo-religious (Christians on Easter, Christmas, and when grandma visited), but not really fully devout or anything, so I never really grew up with it. I was never baptized or anything. It wasn’t until several personal tragedies and life experiences that I began to seek out a higher power and greater meaning. And for a long period of my life, it worked for me. But I was always a skeptic trying to make Christianity “fit” with science. And the more I learned about both, the more I realized that it was cognitive dissonance. There were just too many incongruities (scientific and moral/ethical ones) for me, especially given the history of Christianity and it’s people. There are a number of fundamentally (pardon the pun) “wrong” ideas embedded in Christianity. Concepts like: 1) Love the sinner, hate the sin! That philosophy has never been compelling because it cannot logically be applied. EVER! Christians convince themselves that this is what they are doing when they shun people whose lifestyle they disagree with, but the reality is, shunning is a demonstrable form of hate. If you speak ill about Jews, or Muslims, or atheists, or gays, and call them lost, and sinners, and abominations, yet still claim to “love” them, you are fooling yourself and indeed engaging in cognitive dissonance. If you treat certain kinds of “sinners” differently than you treat Christian, white, heterosexual sinners, then you’re a hypocrite. And this is something it seems most Christians cannot understand. 2) Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. The so-called “golden rule” is supposedly the standard of morality that everyone should live by. But in the first place, very few Christians in my experience have ever actually done this. Most Christians don’t want to be judged, or condemned, or gossiped about, or have their right to marry, or adopt, or join the military challenged in a court. Yet, they tend to actively favor legislation that does exactly that to others. Simultaneously, you don’t often hear them say anything about things like divorce. In the second place, the golden rule is an inherently conceded and morally devoid concept. It assumes that other people want to be treated like you do. How about treat others as THEY want to be treated? Maybe I don’t want you to “pray” for me (which Christians often claim they will do, but it’s only a patronizing expression). Maybe instead I want you to empathize with my position, offer some helpful advice if solicited, and mind your business if/when things don’t concern you. Maybe that’s not how you’d want to be treated, but it’s what I want. Maybe it’s more “moral” to allow people the dignity of controlling their own destiny instead of dictating what’s best for them. No, I don’t need “Jesus”, I need an actual human friend capable of providing compassion and assistance, instead of judgement and hindrance. Christianity ultimately depends on the notion that humans are inherently bad, impotent to help themselves, and naturally inclined to harm themselves, others, and society at large. This is a very foul outlook on what it means to be human, and it is a morbid, self fulfilling prophecy that I don’t subscribe to. For this reason among many others, I now recognize Christianity as an immoral belief system that is antithetical to individual or sociological progress and prosperity. Thanks for the well-articulated reply. Because I grew up with only 'their' vocabulary, it's been difficult for me to define distinct reasons for rejecting it. I mostly went with my preference of science, logic, reason, et al, to explain my shift from believer to non-believer. Again, thanks.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Dec 31, 2017 22:52:43 GMT
Did you finally get laid? Finally? What are you talking about?
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jan 1, 2018 4:11:47 GMT
What role, if any, did your homosexuality play in you giving up Christianity?
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 1, 2018 6:14:12 GMT
What role, if any, did your homosexuality play in you giving up Christianity? No “direct” role that I’m consciously aware of; possibly a subconscious role. I’d say it’s more the role most Christians play in displaying homophobia towards the LGBT community (including many of my friends), and trying to use religion to justify it. That certainly didn’t inspire to continue taking up the “Christian” cause.
|
|
|
Post by OldSamVimes on Jan 1, 2018 7:59:54 GMT
Are you still drunk from yesterday?
If so, I admire your dedication.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 1, 2018 16:53:46 GMT
Are you still drunk from yesterday? If so, I admire your dedication. No. I have a fast metabolism.
|
|
|
Post by looking4klingons on Jan 2, 2018 7:01:33 GMT
Did you find the loss of your Christian faith to be an emotionally difficult or traumatising experience and (if I'm allowed 2), were you beginning to have doubts about your religion even when you were posting as a Christian on IMDb/IMDb v2? The answer to both questions is surprisingly no. I actually found it quite liberating and a relief because it freed me up to focus on what was actually important...prosperity and happiness through scientific understanding and logical reasoning. As far as doubts go, I suppose I’ve always had them. But cognitive dissonance compelled me to surpress them to facilitate what I wanted to believe (rather than what actually made sense). The trigger was essentially a sleepless night followed by an epiphany. No dramatic life changes! Suffice it to say, I woke up one night and realized that god (specifically the Christian God as described by the Bible and taught by traditional Christianity) doesn’t exist because it CAN’T exist within the framework of its own logic. That god (and all attributes associated with the belief) is self contradictory, and as a concept can only exist as a paradox. Sorry to hear about this, man! I can understand losing your faith in God because of the mainstream teachings of traditional Christianity, but not because of what the Bible says about Him. One of the smartest men who ever lived, Isaac Newton, ‘studied the Bible daily.’ And he came to reject most of “traditional Christianity,” but concluded that the Bible was God’s Word. Take care.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 2, 2018 13:15:53 GMT
The answer to both questions is surprisingly no. I actually found it quite liberating and a relief because it freed me up to focus on what was actually important...prosperity and happiness through scientific understanding and logical reasoning. As far as doubts go, I suppose I’ve always had them. But cognitive dissonance compelled me to surpress them to facilitate what I wanted to believe (rather than what actually made sense). The trigger was essentially a sleepless night followed by an epiphany. No dramatic life changes! Suffice it to say, I woke up one night and realized that god (specifically the Christian God as described by the Bible and taught by traditional Christianity) doesn’t exist because it CAN’T exist within the framework of its own logic. That god (and all attributes associated with the belief) is self contradictory, and as a concept can only exist as a paradox. Sorry to hear about this, man! I can understand losing your faith in God because of the mainstream teachings of traditional Christianity, but not because of what the Bible says about Him. One of the smartest men who ever lived, Isaac Newton, ‘studied the Bible daily.’ And he came to reject most of “traditional Christianity,” but concluded that the Bible was God’s Word. Take care. I think after studying the Bible for years myself, I can come up with some very good arguments for why it’s NOT the word of God, and why arguing that it is is futile. But that risks taking this thread in a whole new direction. Suffice it to say, no need to be “sorry”, as I am quite content with my position and understanding.
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on Jan 2, 2018 14:14:15 GMT
Sorry to hear about this, man! I can understand losing your faith in God because of the mainstream teachings of traditional Christianity, but not because of what the Bible says about Him. If that's what you think, l4k, then here's a free shot for you. Give us an example of a mainstream Christianity teaching about God that would lead to a loss of faith, contrasted with the Bible's real teaching which would not lead to loss of faith.
|
|
|
Post by koskiewicz on Jan 3, 2018 16:27:40 GMT
...what is the square root of infinity...
|
|
|
Post by looking4klingons on Jan 3, 2018 18:56:38 GMT
Sorry to hear about this, man! I can understand losing your faith in God because of the mainstream teachings of traditional Christianity, but not because of what the Bible says about Him. One of the smartest men who ever lived, Isaac Newton, ‘studied the Bible daily.’ And he came to reject most of “traditional Christianity,” but concluded that the Bible was God’s Word. Take care. I think after studying the Bible for years myself, I can come up with some very good arguments for why it’s NOT the word of God, and why arguing that it is is futile. But that risks taking this thread in a whole new direction. Suffice it to say, no need to be “sorry”, as I am quite content with my position and understanding. I’m not intending to be antagonistic toward you .... I’ve enjoyed your posts in the past ... but you say you’re quite content. Then why were you drunk when you started this post? Excessive drinking can be indicative of inner turmoil, and unhappiness.
|
|
|
Post by looking4klingons on Jan 3, 2018 19:01:24 GMT
Sorry to hear about this, man! I can understand losing your faith in God because of the mainstream teachings of traditional Christianity, but not because of what the Bible says about Him. If that's what you think, l4k, then here's a free shot for you. Give us an example of a mainstream Christianity teaching about God that would lead to a loss of faith, contrasted with the Bible's real teaching which would not lead to loss of faith. Well, the trinity for one. Hellfire is another. I used to believe these teachings....they kept me from having a close relationship with God. Now understanding the truth about these, the Scriptures make a lot more sense.
|
|
|
Post by johnblutarsky on Jan 3, 2018 19:11:34 GMT
Who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong?
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 3, 2018 22:51:38 GMT
I think after studying the Bible for years myself, I can come up with some very good arguments for why it’s NOT the word of God, and why arguing that it is is futile. But that risks taking this thread in a whole new direction. Suffice it to say, no need to be “sorry”, as I am quite content with my position and understanding. I’m not intending to be antagonistic toward you .... I’ve enjoyed your posts in the past ... but you say you’re quite content. Then why were you drunk when you started this post? Excessive drinking can be indicative of inner turmoil, and unhappiness. True. But “excessive” is a relative term, and ultimately depends on how you define it. I think think getting drunk on your New Years vacation is necessarily indicative of inner turmoil. If it was something I did every night, then yeah, that’s probably a problem. But for the first time in my life, I’m in a loving, stable relationship that’s lasted longer than 2 years, I have a solid career in which I’m eligible to retire this year, I’m healthy, and happy. This is legitimately one of the few years I haven’t had any inner turmoil.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 3, 2018 22:52:43 GMT
If that's what you think, l4k, then here's a free shot for you. Give us an example of a mainstream Christianity teaching about God that would lead to a loss of faith, contrasted with the Bible's real teaching which would not lead to loss of faith. Well, the trinity for one. Hellfire is another. I used to believe these teachings....they kept me from having a close relationship with God. Now understanding the truth about these, the Scriptures make a lot more sense. Why did Trinity lead to a loss of faith?
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 3, 2018 22:53:45 GMT
Who put the ram in the rama lama ding dong? The Edsels
|
|