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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 5:29:01 GMT
I'll have to check the dialogue when the script is out or rewatch, but I'm pretty sure Kylo's verbage to her was that Rey knew it deep down all along, even if she was in denial to the world. Strengthened by Maz's dialogue in TFA. But we're missing a key part of this. The original idea is that Rey is recalling what her parents did to her when she decides not to sell BB8, except she does not recall it at all. Denial is especially strong when it comes to something as psychologically scarring as paternal abandonment. Rey has spent years and years convincing herself of something other than the idea that her parents abandoned her. So in fact, up until TLJ, she "doesn't know." As to how Kylo gained all this insight about his future main squeeze's paternal history, he discovered it in the recesses of her mind when he probed her in TFA. There is absolutely nothing in the story that would say that she didn't deep down know all along that her parents had sold her for drinking money to Plutt and just been in denial about it, to herself and the outside world. That experience could absolutely have had an impact to her thought of selling BB8 to the same guy just as she was sold, whether she repressed that memory or not. I think politicidal has made a keen observation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 5:43:47 GMT
Strengthened by Maz's dialogue in TFA. But we're missing a key part of this. The original idea is that Rey is recalling what her parents did to her when she decides not to sell BB8, except she does not recall it at all. Denial is especially strong when it comes to something as psychologically scarring as paternal abandonment. Rey has spent years and years convincing herself of something other than the idea that her parents abandoned her. So in fact, up until TLJ, she "doesn't know." As to how Kylo gained all this insight about his future main squeeze's paternal history, he discovered it in the recesses of her mind when he probed her in TFA. There is absolutely nothing in the story that would say that she didn't deep down know all along that her parents had sold her for drinking money to Plutt and just been in denial about it, to herself and the outside world. Sure there is. The scene when Han offers her (what to her would be) a dream job, which she clearly (excitedly) was about to accept before she remembered that she wanted to go back home to wait for her parents. At that point, she thinks they're coming back and she still desperately wants to be there when they do.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 5:47:32 GMT
There is absolutely nothing in the story that would say that she didn't deep down know all along that her parents had sold her for drinking money to Plutt and just been in denial about it, to herself and the outside world. Sure there is. The scene when Han offers her (what to her would be) a dream job, which she clearly (excitedly) was about to accept before she remembered that she wanted to go back home to wait for her parents. At that point, she thinks they're coming back and she still desperately wants to be there when they do. And to solidify that further, why would Maz feel she still needs convincing of the idea that her parents weren't returning if Rey already consciously realized it? Kids who are abused often form walls around those memories and project something different in their place. That something different becomes their self-deluded reality, but it is their "reality" nonetheless.
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Post by Jedan Archer on Jan 4, 2018 9:52:57 GMT
Unfortunately that doesn't really make sense because at the time she had the opportunity to sell BB8 Rey didn't know who her parents were. She really had no clarity about that situation other than she believed that they were coming back for her. It wasn't til the lightsaber vision that she saw them flying away and leaving her with Unkar Plutt. I'll have to check the dialogue when the script is out or rewatch, but I'm pretty sure Kylo's verbage to her was that Rey knew it deep down all along, even if she was in denial to the world. Yes and no:
Kylo: You know it, say it! Rey (crying): They were nobody.
Which is some meta dialogue/4th wall writing for me. What does that mean "nobody"? Did Rey like the fandom theorize that her parents were some of the OT stars or some celebrities...? Why?
But I do like the retcon of how this would not want Rey to sell a "friend". Her chosing to rather starve than selling a robot she just found is one of the more cringe worthy and unbelivable moments in TFA. You do not survive this way in a harsh world and you do not develop a Disney-movie morality, even spoiled brat Luke treated droids like slaves/property.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 14:01:56 GMT
Sure there is. The scene when Han offers her (what to her would be) a dream job, which she clearly (excitedly) was about to accept before she remembered that she wanted to go back home to wait for her parents. At that point, she thinks they're coming back and she still desperately wants to be there when they do. And to solidify that further, why would Maz feel she still needs convincing of the idea that her parents weren't returning if Rey already consciously realized it? Kids who are abused often form walls around those memories and project something different in their place. That something different becomes their self-deluded reality, but it is their "reality" nonetheless. And that self deluded reality is exactly the denial I'm talking about. I've known victims of abuse that lived with it, lied to themselves and the world that it was going on, convinced themselves that they were in a good situation for themselves, but would go berserk to protect someone else who was heading to the same situation.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 14:08:06 GMT
I'll have to check the dialogue when the script is out or rewatch, but I'm pretty sure Kylo's verbage to her was that Rey knew it deep down all along, even if she was in denial to the world. Yes and no:
Kylo: You know it, say it! Rey (crying): They were nobody.
Which is some meta dialogue/4th wall writing for me. What does that mean "nobody"? Did Rey like the fandom theorize that her parents were some of the OT stars or some celebrities...? Why?
But I do like the retcon of how this would not want Rey to sell a "friend". Her chosing to rather starve than selling a robot she just found is one of the more cringe worthy and unbelivable moments in TFA. You do not survive this way in a harsh world and you do not develop a Disney-movie morality, even spoiled brat Luke treated droids like slaves/property.
There were multiple instances of 4th wall but without "winking" situations in the film. I liked that though. It's pretty rare to see it done the way it was done here, a different type of fan service. Taking the fans criticisms of the previous films characters and making it part of the character. Is that a lowbrow thing to do, maybe, but it sure was effective.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jan 4, 2018 15:04:40 GMT
I'll have to check the dialogue when the script is out or rewatch, but I'm pretty sure Kylo's verbage to her was that Rey knew it deep down all along, even if she was in denial to the world. Yes and no:
Kylo: You know it, say it! Rey (crying): They were nobody.
Which is some meta dialogue/4th wall writing for me. What does that mean "nobody"? Did Rey like the fandom theorize that her parents were some of the OT stars or some celebrities...? Why? It certainly seems like the writer(s) was trying to seduce the audience into that belief; simply because they knew that the majority of the audience had a large appetite for it. Rey acts like a gushing groupie who just found out Santa Claus is real, at the mention of Luke Skywalker's name. But when she finds out Han Solo is the Han Solo, she acts as if he had been her imaginary father idol for her entire life. In hindsight of both these movies, those moments look like "winks" at breaking the fourth wall.
Indeed. Even when you bring "little Ani" Anakin into the equation it's still good writing by comparison, despite complaints of him building C3PO ruined some people's childhood. Anakin formed attachments with droids in a world where he was a slave mistreated or ignored by most sentient beings. Even most of his childhood peers treated him like an outsider. But Anakin had a nurturing parent who helped allow him to entertain droids as pets. He was also removed from slavery early enough that he wouldn't experience many shattering "relationships" with droids being destroyed. Or having to "slaughter the family pet pig for food and money". In contrast Rey should've encountered many droid scraps and even a few intact droids on those downed Star Destroyers. But there was no evidence she had hidden away any droids as pets. She certainly would've (very early on) had the reality that a child without parents was at a disadvantage in an economy based on fighting over ship and droid parts to survive. And now that we find out even before Plutt became Rey's guardian her parents were dead-beat drunks, it only makes her nobility over BB8 look even less plausible. So her morality seems to come out of nowhere. It's just there because "that's what all Disney warrior princesses are made of".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 15:35:22 GMT
And to solidify that further, why would Maz feel she still needs convincing of the idea that her parents weren't returning if Rey already consciously realized it? Kids who are abused often form walls around those memories and project something different in their place. That something different becomes their self-deluded reality, but it is their "reality" nonetheless. And that self deluded reality is exactly the denial I'm talking about. I've known victims of abuse that lived with it, lied to themselves and the world that it was going on, convinced themselves that they were in a good situation for themselves, but would go berserk to protect someone else who was heading to the same situation. That's a good point. The whole argument was semantic anyway and I shouldn't have broached it. As a retcon, does it (the scene in TFA itself) recall what we learned about Rey in TLJ and is that arguably kind of interesting from an artistic perspective? Yes. Does Rey herself actually consciously recall what her parents did within that scene...and then block out the memory again? I guess I don't think so, but it was a dumb argument in the first place, so I concede.
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