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Post by audiosane on Jan 10, 2018 4:08:27 GMT
Fans were excited to see Finn's potential shine in the sequels. Now it's clear they don't really have anything for him to do, which is particularly frustrating since Finn has a unique background. Why not have him find his long lost family or try to help free his fellow stormtroopers from their brainwashing? At least that would be a different way to help them defeat the First Order. Agreed. Plus I like your story idea. I hope it happens. It's similar to some story ideas I had for him. Thanks. I hope it happens, too. Knowing Abrams though, we'll probably get more of the same. More bumbling, more side missions that don't explore his background, more attempts at personal victories that are undermined in one way or another. TFA fans were excited to see what they'd do with Finn in the sequels. I don't really hear anyone particularly excited for him anymore. Finn's clearly not Jedi material, confirming that Disney lied to us in the marketing. Despite his unique and interesting background, his portrayal isn't all that different from any Resistance grunt.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 4:55:51 GMT
This is also not true. She knew damn well that the droids were heading to Tatooine. Tatooines an ENTIRE PLANET! Are you sure when throw something the size of R2D2 at the Earth that its not going to land in South America as opposed to Siberia?! Considering her circumstances, Leia's quick thinking and tactical maneuvers were very impressive in this particular situation. Besides, R2 is probably the most determined character in the entire SW saga; continental divide or no, he'd have found his way to Obi Wan eventually.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 5:02:17 GMT
I actually just thought of something I like about Rose and this, sadly, isn't a joke: she made Finn a more likable character, purely by contrast.
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Post by audiosane on Jan 10, 2018 5:48:24 GMT
I actually just thought of something I like about Rose and this, sadly, isn't a joke: she made Finn a more likable character, purely by contrast. Just to be clear, are you saying you liked Finn more because Rose wasn't so likeable, which was something you liked about her?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2018 5:53:26 GMT
I actually just thought of something I like about Rose and this, sadly, isn't a joke: she made Finn a more likable character, purely by contrast. Just to be clear, are you saying you liked Finn more because Rose wasn't so likeable, which was something you liked about her? Yes! And let me tell you, it's akin to walking into a super strong dark side cave seeking the answer to life's mysteries and seeing a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of myself.
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Post by audiosane on Jan 11, 2018 0:00:52 GMT
Just to be clear, are you saying you liked Finn more because Rose wasn't so likeable, which was something you liked about her? Yes! And let me tell you, it's akin to walking into a super strong dark side cave seeking the answer to life's mysteries and seeing a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of myself. That scene gave me a bad case of blue balls. Lots of exciting buildup that didn't go anywhere. In a way, it's even worse than Canto Bite. I wasn't expecting much from it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 2:18:45 GMT
Yes! And let me tell you, it's akin to walking into a super strong dark side cave seeking the answer to life's mysteries and seeing a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of a reflection of myself. That scene gave me a bad case of blue balls. Lots of exciting buildup that didn't go anywhere. In a way, it's even worse than Canto Bite. I wasn't expecting much from it. Right. I wasn't sure I was expecting an explicit answer. I thought we might see a strong clue. Perhaps the caustic shadow of someone's armor that would be a color that would strongly indicate someone. I didn't expect a non-answer. I didn't expect....that.
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 11, 2018 5:39:56 GMT
Give me one or two specific reasons you didn't like the Rose character. I recently spoke to someone who said he didn't like her and when I asked why specifically he couldn't give me a real answer. I suppose those of you who didn't like her will be able to give me a better response here since you'll have had time to think about it. But be honest, was she really so bad? And if so, why? It's not her character itself but the way the character is handled. It feels too... heavy handed. Too in your face. It's like they were forcing her character into the spotlight without taking the steps to make sure she deserved to be in the spotlight. It's like Disney specifically made her character just so they can say they were breaking stereotypes, but instead of actually developing her character they just based her on a checklist. I don't hate the character and I appreciate the idea behind it, I just find the way it's presented as tactless. Then again that's pretty much how I feel about TFA and TLJ.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jan 11, 2018 8:33:21 GMT
She was poorly written in every possible way. She felt like a forced character that was put in the movie so Disney could say, "See? We have diversity!"
She ruined a great character moment for Finn and then proceeded to spew the worst line in any Star Wars movie (and there have been some doozies). Whatever the shortcomings of Rey, Finn, and Poe as the new characters, at least they have a purpose within the story. Rose does not. Take her out and the movie loses nothing in story and gains quite a bit in quality.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 11, 2018 14:57:40 GMT
She was poorly written in every possible way. She felt like a forced character that was put in the movie so Disney could say, "See? We have diversity!" She ruined a great character moment for Finn and then proceeded to spew the worst line in any Star Wars movie (and there have been some doozies). Whatever the shortcomings of Rey, Finn, and Poe as the new characters, at least they have a purpose within the story. Rose does not. Take her out and the movie loses nothing in story and gains quite a bit in quality. That is if you consider a great character moment for Fin being him dying. I don't, unless the death is a good one, and that one wouldn't have been. It was like throwing a fly at a wall. Luke's death sucked too (but for other reasons). Admiral Holdo is the only one that went out strong.
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Post by audiosane on Jan 11, 2018 15:41:21 GMT
That scene gave me a bad case of blue balls. Lots of exciting buildup that didn't go anywhere. In a way, it's even worse than Canto Bite. I wasn't expecting much from it. Right. I wasn't sure I was expecting an explicit answer. I thought we might see a strong clue. Perhaps the caustic shadow of someone's armor that would be a color that would strongly indicate someone. I didn't expect a non-answer. I didn't expect....that. Bingo. I either wanted a clue or an image of two people on the mirror along with a brief flashback going back to kid Rey on Jakku. I also wanted to see a flashback that showed Luke training Kylo Ren AND the other Jedi apprentices. It sucks that they only showed Luke and Kylo. But yeah, waste our time on Canto Bite.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 15:49:55 GMT
Right. I wasn't sure I was expecting an explicit answer. I thought we might see a strong clue. Perhaps the caustic shadow of someone's armor that would be a color that would strongly indicate someone. I didn't expect a non-answer. I didn't expect....that. Bingo. I either wanted a clue or an image of two people on the mirror along with a brief flashback going back to kid Rey on Jakku. I also wanted to see a flashback that showed Luke training Kylo Ren AND the other Jedi apprentices. It sucks that they only showed Luke and Kylo. But yeah, waste our time on Canto Bite. And then when I got over my initial WTF moment, I thought, "Okay, so she's a clone or a reincarnation. That's what this means, that's why she sees only unending Reys. I...guess I can get behind this idea...let's see where they take it?" And then nope. You're a nobody like the kid on Canto Bite and now nobodies can use the Force to whip trained Jedi in a fight. To quote the only character who (imo) was treated reverently and well in the ST: "That's not how the Force works."
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Post by outrider127 on Jan 11, 2018 16:40:31 GMT
She's just a worthless PC character
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Post by Skaathar on Jan 11, 2018 17:43:43 GMT
She was poorly written in every possible way. She felt like a forced character that was put in the movie so Disney could say, "See? We have diversity!" She ruined a great character moment for Finn and then proceeded to spew the worst line in any Star Wars movie (and there have been some doozies). Whatever the shortcomings of Rey, Finn, and Poe as the new characters, at least they have a purpose within the story. Rose does not. Take her out and the movie loses nothing in story and gains quite a bit in quality. That is if you consider a great character moment for Fin being him dying. I don't, unless the death is a good one, and that one wouldn't have been. It was like throwing a fly at a wall. Luke's death sucked too (but for other reasons). Admiral Holdo is the only one that went out strong. Finn's death would have made sense though, as it was supposed to stop that battering ram. Had Luke not appeared, had there not been any back passage found, Finn's sacrifice would have made a pretty big difference had it been successful. Rose ruined that for a reason that doesn't make sense. Had Luke not appeared, Rose and Finn and the rest would have died anyway. So she basically stopped Finn from sacrificing himself just so they can get killed a few minutes later.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 11, 2018 17:56:17 GMT
That is if you consider a great character moment for Fin being him dying. I don't, unless the death is a good one, and that one wouldn't have been. It was like throwing a fly at a wall. Luke's death sucked too (but for other reasons). Admiral Holdo is the only one that went out strong. Finn's death would have made sense though, as it was supposed to stop that battering ram. Had Luke not appeared, had there not been any back passage found, Finn's sacrifice would have made a pretty big difference had it been successful. Rose ruined that for a reason that doesn't make sense. Had Luke not appeared, Rose and Finn and the rest would have died anyway. So she basically stopped Finn from sacrificing himself just so they can get killed a few minutes later. A) Finns death would have been meaningless as he would have died and they still would have gotten through. His little aircraft was not going to destroy that big ass cannon. Its was like a drop in the ocean. His craft was already falling apart.
2) Luke was ALWAYS going to show up to help the resistance. Rose saving Finn did NOT precipitate that. Its in the very drama of the story that Luke was always going to show up.
3) Poe found a way out of the base through good old deduction. He noticed it got quiet and that the crystal creatures weren't around anymore. Nothing to do with Rose/Finn or Luke.
You guys are just adding 2+2 to equal 6 to try to support your dislike for a character that isn't responsible for those actions.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2018 18:05:45 GMT
Finn's death would have made sense though, as it was supposed to stop that battering ram. Had Luke not appeared, had there not been any back passage found, Finn's sacrifice would have made a pretty big difference had it been successful. Rose ruined that for a reason that doesn't make sense. Had Luke not appeared, Rose and Finn and the rest would have died anyway. So she basically stopped Finn from sacrificing himself just so they can get killed a few minutes later. A) Finns death would have been meaningless as he would have died and they still would have gotten through. His little aircraft was not going to destroy that big ass cannon. Its was like a drop in the ocean. His craft was already falling apart. But that's viewer speculation. The character in the movie seemed to think it would work. Being a well-trained member of the First Order, I think he'd have a decent idea what it might take to destroy a First Order canon. Also speculation. Whereas we know that Luke was going to get involved in the fight eventually because even RJ wasn't stupid enough to just leave him out entirely, we don't know that Luke would show up simply to sacrifice himself. If Rose hadn't foiled Finn's plans, perhaps Luke's interference would have come at a different time or in a different way. Actually, it had everything to do with Luke. He said something to the effect of "If he (Luke) got in here, then there must be a way out." Which is just another example of poor plotting.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Jan 11, 2018 18:17:27 GMT
She was poorly written in every possible way. She felt like a forced character that was put in the movie so Disney could say, "See? We have diversity!" She ruined a great character moment for Finn and then proceeded to spew the worst line in any Star Wars movie (and there have been some doozies). Whatever the shortcomings of Rey, Finn, and Poe as the new characters, at least they have a purpose within the story. Rose does not. Take her out and the movie loses nothing in story and gains quite a bit in quality. That is if you consider a great character moment for Fin being him dying. I don't, unless the death is a good one, and that one wouldn't have been. It was like throwing a fly at a wall. Luke's death sucked too (but for other reasons). Admiral Holdo is the only one that went out strong. How would Finn's death not have been a good one? He would have saved the Resistance single-handedly and exacted revenge on the First Order for essentially enslaving him. I assume the destruction of that mini-Death Star laser would have also caused quite the explosion, killing most of the First Order along with him. Where I do agree with you is that Luke's death was worthless. It didn't need to happen. Especially if Rose just let Finn sacrifice himself and save the Resistance. If Finn destroys the laser, then Luke doesn't have to stall Kylo and the First Order at all. So, in a way, Rose caused the death of Luke. Thanks a lot Rose!
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 11, 2018 19:50:03 GMT
That is if you consider a great character moment for Fin being him dying. I don't, unless the death is a good one, and that one wouldn't have been. It was like throwing a fly at a wall. Luke's death sucked too (but for other reasons). Admiral Holdo is the only one that went out strong. How would Finn's death not have been a good one? He would have saved the Resistance single-handedly and Thanks a lot Rose! How many times do I have to say it?!
Finn's little aircraft was not going to do anything against that big ass cannon. It was ALREADY falling apart. You don't throw a drop in an ocean and expect it to make a difference. Did you not notice EVERYONE else including Poe backing off? Did you not notice all the times they showed some piece of their aircrafts falling off? That was to impress upon you the futility of them defending themselves with those puny ships in those dire circumstances. Those scenes of the crafts falling apart weren't there at random.
Rose saved his life from a futile death.
I guess the rocks being in their way at the end of the tunnel was Roses fault too? If you guys want to ascribe all these negative things to her then you have to ascribe the positives too, which is that she saved his life.
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Post by mcufan on Jan 11, 2018 19:53:49 GMT
How would Finn's death not have been a good one? He would have saved the Resistance single-handedly and Thanks a lot Rose! How many times do I have to say it?!
Finn's little aircraft was not going to do anything against that big ass cannon. It was ALREADY falling apart. You don't throw a drop in an ocean and expect it to make a difference. Did you not notice EVERYONE else including Poe backing off? Did you not notice all the times they showed some piece of their aircrafts falling off? That was to impress upon you the futility of them defending themselves with those puny ships in those dire circumstances. Those scenes of the crafts falling apart weren't there at random.
Rose saved his life from a futile death.
I guess the rocks being in their way at the end of the tunnel was Roses fault too? If you guys want to ascribe all these negative things to her then you have to ascribe the positives too, which is that she saved his life.
Also the scene worked to make POE finnaly understand, survive to fight another day. The Poe of the beggining would say go for it! Not retreat.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jan 11, 2018 19:58:44 GMT
A) Finns death would have been meaningless as he would have died and they still would have gotten through. His little aircraft was not going to destroy that big ass cannon. Its was like a drop in the ocean. His craft was already falling apart. But that's viewer speculation. The character in the movie seemed to think it would work. Being a well-trained member of the First Order, I think he'd have a decent idea what it might take to destroy a First Order canon. Also speculation. Whereas we know that Luke was going to get involved in the fight eventually because even RJ wasn't stupid enough to just leave him out entirely, we don't know that Luke would show up simply to sacrifice himself. If Rose hadn't foiled Finn's plans, perhaps Luke's interference would have come at a different time or in a different way. Actually, it had everything to do with Luke. He said something to the effect of "If he (Luke) got in here, then there must be a way out." Which is just another example of poor plotting. 1) That's not viewer speculation. It was OBVIOUS to me that his little ship wasn't going to a thing against that big ass cannon. Why wasn't that obvious to you?
2) Again, NOT viewer speculation. It was absolutely the most dramatic thing to have happen at that point in the movie to have Luke show up and save the day. When writing you follow the drama.
3) So Poe, and no one else present, would have figured that out? I disagree. He made a deduction that anyone could have made without Lukes presence.
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