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Post by scabab on Jan 18, 2018 15:47:03 GMT
GotG vol. 2 is a very good film dealing with all kinds of interhuman relationships. Its close to being brilliant. Justice League was very empty and shallow compared to that. It was a good movie and it was better than Justice League definitely. I don't think it was quite as good as the first one though. It was probably the weakest superhero movie this year besides Justice League. Though the rest were all good anyway.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 18, 2018 16:09:33 GMT
Money does not make a good movie,the Transformer movies made billions. The mcu movies in 2017 were all average. Nobody is saying money makes a good movie, in terms of box office expectations Justice League was a serious disappointment and struggled to make a profit; that is why there's been a recent reconstruction at Warner Bros. For crying out loud, it's the Justice League: Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all together in a single movie and coming off of the heels of Wonder Woman's success the movie should've made more but it didn't and it lost to the third Thor movie think about that for a second. Your Transformers argument does not really work - The three MCU movies released in 2017 did pretty good critically and were quite liked by most movie goers whereas the Transformers films are in the "critics hate it, but audiences like it" category of the cinema marketplace. The most recent entry scored the lowest with critics and audiences and made way less profit than prior entries. Now if you were talking about Iron Fist and Inhumans, which are not made by Marvel's film division but are in the MCU technically speaking, then you might have a point in terms of reception, but neither of them were designed to be movies they were for TV.
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Post by thenewnexus on Jan 18, 2018 16:12:11 GMT
Money does not make a good movie,the Transformer movies made billions. The mcu movies in 2017 were all average. Nobody is saying money makes a good movie, in terms of box office expectations Justice League was a serious disappointment and struggled to make a profit; that is why there's been a recent reconstruction at Warner Bros. For crying out loud, it's the Justice League: Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all together in a single movie and coming off of the heels of Wonder Woman's success the movie should've made more but it didn't and it lost to the third Thor movie think about that for a second. Your Transformers argument does not really work - The three MCU movies released in 2017 did pretty good critically and were quite liked by most movie goers whereas the Transformers films are in the "critics hate it, but audiences like it" category of the cinema marketplace. The most recent entry scored the lowest with critics and audiences and made way less profit than prior entries. Now if you were talking about Iron Fist and Inhumans, which are not made by Marvel's film division but are in the MCU technically speaking, then you might have a point in terms of reception, but neither of them were designed to be movies they were for TV. Even Iron Fist is a 10 compared to the movies,not saying I liked it but I would rather watch that . The critcs think comedy means a good movie
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 18, 2018 16:21:08 GMT
Nobody is saying money makes a good movie, in terms of box office expectations Justice League was a serious disappointment and struggled to make a profit; that is why there's been a recent reconstruction at Warner Bros. For crying out loud, it's the Justice League: Wonder Woman, Superman, Batman, The Flash, Aquaman, and Cyborg all together in a single movie and coming off of the heels of Wonder Woman's success the movie should've made more but it didn't and it lost to the third Thor movie think about that for a second. Your Transformers argument does not really work - The three MCU movies released in 2017 did pretty good critically and were quite liked by most movie goers whereas the Transformers films are in the "critics hate it, but audiences like it" category of the cinema marketplace. The most recent entry scored the lowest with critics and audiences and made way less profit than prior entries. Now if you were talking about Iron Fist and Inhumans, which are not made by Marvel's film division but are in the MCU technically speaking, then you might have a point in terms of reception, but neither of them were designed to be movies they were for TV. Even Iron Fist is a 10 compared to the movies,not saying I liked it but I would rather watch that . The critcs think comedy means a good movie No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace.
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Post by charzhino on Jan 18, 2018 16:29:44 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 18, 2018 16:35:57 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too. Or maybe its because AOU had more going for it on a screenwriting and cinematic level than JL. Which appears to be the case based on overall reception. JL did not "come out of nowhere", its had four prior movies to set up for it.
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Post by thenewnexus on Jan 18, 2018 16:47:27 GMT
Even Iron Fist is a 10 compared to the movies,not saying I liked it but I would rather watch that . The critcs think comedy means a good movie No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. Iron Fist being Dark was one of the reasons it was better. SS and JL are no different than most mcu movies,Idk why they are trashed and the mcu is praised.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Jan 18, 2018 17:03:57 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. Iron Fist being Dark was one of the reasons it was better. SS and JL are no different than most mcu movies,Idk why they are trashed and the mcu is praised. Being dark doesn't make a movie or TV series better if its not written, acted, or directed well. And if that's the one reason you list you're gonna have to do a lot better to argue that Iron Fist was better than GOTG Vol 2, SMH, and Thor:Ragnarok - Try talking in-depth about character development, direction, visuals, storytelling, etc. and avoid being simple like "it wuz darker, darker = better" because that won't cut it. How so? Explain why.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 18, 2018 17:51:54 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. Iron Fist being Dark was one of the reasons it was better. SS and JL are no different than most mcu movies,Idk why they are trashed and the mcu is praised. correct they are dumb fun junk food, they get trashed because of brand, ie DC. DC was in the spotlight for decades, now it's MCU Marvel until that changes again.
Audiences are fickle. When the new thing comes along, all the MCU praise will turn into loathing and all that was good will suddenly be bad.
It's how things work with trivial things and fandom hypes. And it's good that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 19:04:03 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too. Wow, you're basically just flying on autopilot with that post.
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Post by formersamhmd on Jan 18, 2018 21:05:25 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too. So in other words, the MCU is built better.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2018 22:06:07 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too. AOU has a cohesive storyline. It has good CGI that doesn't look as though it was rendered by a 5-year-old on Ritalin. The action scenes are comparatively well constructed and a light heated tone is maintained throughout without it looking like a sheepish attempt to gain favor with disenfranchised general audience members. I don't particularly like AOU, I think it's a pretty average movie. But please don't try to compare it with the DCU's latest cinematic turd. The only level you can compare them on is that they are both superhero movies.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jan 19, 2018 9:19:34 GMT
No it isn't (Unless you can provide legitimate reasons why its better go right ahead, but don't use "it was less comedic" as a defense), its considered the weakest of the entire MCU second to Inhumans, hence why they got a new showrunner for the second season. No just because there's comedy doesn't mean critics will be won over easily; Suicide Squad was re-shot and edited to be more comedic and critics trashed it. Justice League was re-shot and re-tooled to be more lighthearted and it certainly didn't get much love from the critics. The Transformers movies you cited before also have lots of humor in them but again those films usually fall into the "critics hate it, audiences enjoy it" crowd of the cinematic marketplace. JL has the same cheesy kiddy comedy of Age of Ultron yet the critics favoured Marvel. Both films have similar problems, the only reason MCU gets a pass is because they do solo movies for their characters giving the illusion they have better on screen chemistry and critics find the inter-quipping more enjoyable. If AoU came out of nowhere like JL it would flop too. AoU was one of the most disappointing sequels I have ever seen. All the abundant energy and fun of the first movie had suddenly dissipated, and it felt forced, dumb and like an overlong rehash. Like junk food that had turned to ashes in your mouth.
And who could forget "I can't have children, I feel like a monster", but please play hide the zuchini with me, Hulk. Or all the pointless teaser inserts like Thor's absurd cave bath-vision that lead to the merry Fragglerock. Or the jokey CGI-villain and his generic robo-army.
The film was technically better shot than Avengers, which felt more like a Wheedon TV pilot at times, but who cares but some graphic whores.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 8:27:22 GMT
bumping for the lols
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2018 8:33:04 GMT
JL was a disappointment. The big historic highlights this year were WW and Logan, no doubt. I hope both go one winning many further awards.
The rest of the CBMs including JL was just - albeit enjoyable - mindless commercial fluff, instantly forgettable.
But if they continue to make Logan and WW-like movies, CMBs might lose the image of being mere junk food for mindless manchildren. That would be a giant leap in the right direction. Im actually surprised by your reaction to JL. My respect for you has been raised a little
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 11:47:52 GMT
About the state of the DCEU, someone came up with this analogy prior to Justice League's debut and I think it's quite apt:
The DCEU is that goth/emo kid in high school who used to be kinda cute as a toddler and all the grannies cooed over him. Now he's hit puberty, slathered on white makeup and dyed his hair extra black (it's already black!). He then refuses to look at anyone in eye, wears an overly long black coat and swooshes' around in heavy textured combat boots cuz he desperately wants to be in a Marilyn Manson video. And when the grannies wonder what happened to him and his parents try to get him to open (hey try something normal, you might get girls); he refuses and insists on over dramatic rock tunes that talk about death and darkness (think nine inch nails and early Linkin Park). The DCEU like this goth dude, has zero friends (partly because he's alienated them: think those who loved Christopher Reeve movies and TDK) and doesn't even try to get new ones. Instead he sulks around, reads grim-dark angel comics and broods when the teacher announces a school trip. It doesn't help that the only area available for him to sit in class is the corner where he is forced to listen to girls swoon over the golden boy MCU.
To the goth kid, the golden boy is everything he hates but the golden boy MCU doesn't mind the goth kid at all and even acknowledges him occasionally but the goth!DCEU just can't be bothered and just wishes he'd shut the eff up and disappear. This is cuz the MCU is tall, built like a brick and is blond with blue eyes. He's super popular with the staff, the cheer-leading squad, and even some of the losers. He has a gaggle of chad friends who high five each other in the hallway and they don't even need to try to get good grades. How can Goth!DCEU even compete? So he starts flunking gym class and the days where he has to go - he can't keep racking up detention hours forever - goth!DCEU has to watch the athletic prowess of chad!MCU. The MCU gains 14 straight wins in a row and when it's the DCEU's turn he gives a middling performance at best (Man of Steel). So goth!DCEU vows to compete academically and he thinks his magnum opus will be rewarded during the class presentation. I mean he can be a good speaker when he wants to be - yet his attempt at a philosophical thesis where he meshes Greek, Roman and Judeo-Christian ideas into a weird hodgepodge of bonkers is simply met with befuddled stares by his classmates and his teacher thinks he might be a potential cat-killer. This is clearly not the reaction goth!DCEU wanted and when the pretty girls giggle and CHAD!MCU slings an arm around one of them, goth!DCEU just loses it vowing to win the supposed battle.
Chad!MCU meanwhile is perplexed and laughs some more, then his chad friends join and the teacher smirks like "SURE JAN". Emotionally embarrassed, goth!DCEU starts sending death threats and storms out the class before the teacher could call the cops. He is thus branded a weirdo though chad!MCU does admit that he feels sorry for him but it's too late cuz rumors spread about goth!DCEU about his weirdness. So Goth!DCEU retreats even further into dark, grim and brooding and for his assignment vows to add a few ironic jokes (Justice League). The entire assignment is about where he hopes to be in the future but all he wants to present is a black screen with a creepy face where you're unsure if it's laughing or frowning. However, this defiant edge-lord attitude gains him two fans (a nebbish weirdo with bad acne and a gangly sunlight deprived basket case) that go on a mission to defend him wherever they go. They memorize the dictionary for pretentious words, write long treatises and read Shakespeare to find insults to hurl. They find goth!DCEU lurking around during recess and they just go stand next to him. Goth! DCEU hates that someone even dared come near him and he moves aside but the two weird kids follow him and they show him their fan-art. They titter on like losers about how cool his outburst was and how they hate chad!MCU and as if on cue, chad!MCU walks past with his large posse and admirers, they roar in laughter and hop into his expensive billion dollar Lamborghini, a marvel to behold but little did goth! DCEU know, was that his deep murderous frown was mirrored by the two losers next to him. One of the losers then takes out a phone and plays: "you make me wanna die" revealing knife scars on his wrist and goth!DCEU gets an idea and decides to rope the two losers into it. Something which most definitely won't end well.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 31, 2018 12:17:39 GMT
You know I called Justice League an MCU film and arfarf flipped out on me.
In my defense having Joss Whedon write and direct the film didn't do any favors with the comparison.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 12:40:12 GMT
You know I called Justice League an MCU film and arfarf flipped out on me. In my defense having Joss Whedon write and direct the film didn't do any favors with the comparison. Well, they both featured a villain who was a God from another planet with a Horned Helmet who was looking for a powerful cube and had an army of alien troopers. One difference was that Avengers didn't stupidly overpower its heroes to the point all drama was lost the way JL did. JL had to make WW and Flash utter incompetents so Batman wouldn't look totally unnecessary and then Superman just killed all tension anyways.
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Post by scabab on Mar 31, 2018 18:46:49 GMT
Well, they both featured a villain who was a God from another planet with a Horned Helmet who was looking for a powerful cube and had an army of alien troopers. One difference was that Avengers didn't stupidly overpower its heroes to the point all drama was lost the way JL did. JL had to make WW and Flash utter incompetents so Batman wouldn't look totally unnecessary and then Superman just killed all tension anyways. They did the same thing with Spider-man in Civil War. They're both young and inexperienced, never even being in a fight before, that's why they were so incompetent. They also nerfed Ultron so Captain America wasn't so useless in that movie so it's all done for a reason.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 31, 2018 21:36:43 GMT
Well, they both featured a villain who was a God from another planet with a Horned Helmet who was looking for a powerful cube and had an army of alien troopers. One difference was that Avengers didn't stupidly overpower its heroes to the point all drama was lost the way JL did. JL had to make WW and Flash utter incompetents so Batman wouldn't look totally unnecessary and then Superman just killed all tension anyways. They did the same thing with Spider-man in Civil War. They're both young and inexperienced, never even being in a fight before, that's why they were so incompetent. They also nerfed Ultron so Captain America wasn't so useless in that movie so it's all done for a reason. Spider-Man was only in Civil War for a few minutes and we got to see him get better in Homecoming. As for Ultron, he was still tough enough to go toe to toe with guys like Thor, that isn't the same kind of nerfing WW and Flash got.
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