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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 6, 2018 7:35:04 GMT
Can you please define what a "real" movie is? It's one that's ashamed of itself, the way Logan and all the FoX-Men movies are. It's safe to say summers8 is not a real comic fan, at best they've probably just collected a few trade paperbacks of story arcs which were fairly serious but did not illustrate the entirety of the publication history, and often does not know when to call a spade a spade- They say Marvel in their heyday was ultra serious when really they were more tongue-in-cheek with sparks of melodrama. For crying out loud, Cap took on an army general who just so happened to be a sumo wrestler in an early comic. Ironically, one of the themes of Logan was learning to embrace your roots; in this case living up to myth. Logan calls the X-Men comics BS and doesn't want to be associated with or do anything concerning what the media made him and his friends out to be, but when he becomes "the wolverine" at the end he saves the kids. Its like a metaphor on studio politics going from old to new - Earlier X-Men movies generally shunned away the source material because it was too fantastical for audiences at the time, but as the climate changed they developed a fight or flight attitude that still persists today. The more they strayed from the source the worse things got, the more they strived to be like the source the more accepted they were. Logan would've been a nice way to say "it's time to move on from this 'grounded' approach and go for the fantastic', but it seems most people including big wigs at Fox didn't catch on this, even surprisingly the director. How they missed this metaphor that was so obvious I'll never know...Had they did and all newer X-Men related content from Fox sans Deadpool were going in a different direction I'd say this was a job well done, but they learned nothing, but hopefully some at Disney did and know what to do when they eventually take over 100%.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 6, 2018 10:30:32 GMT
Logan would've been a nice way to say "it's time to move on from this 'grounded' approach and go for the fantastic', but it seems most people including big wigs at Fox didn't catch on this, even surprisingly the director. How they missed this metaphor that was so obvious I'll never know...Had they did and all newer X-Men related content from Fox sans Deadpool were going in a different direction I'd say this was a job well done, but they learned nothing, but hopefully some at Disney did and know what to do when they eventually take over 100%. Considering theres been no new release from Fox since Logan, you're metaphor fails because it hasnt happened. And being fantastical by introducing "aliens and magic" doesnt make a comic book film automatically accepted/good like you're suggesting. Look at the DCEU which have done exactly that transitioning from Nolans grounded approach. Only hard-core fanatical DC fans claim the Snyderverse is superior than the Nolan one simply because its more true to the aesthetics of the source material without a care for film quality. Xmen films dont need to be lighthearted colourful flicks like Dr Strange or Guardians, not yet anyway until Disney takes over in 4 years and cheeses them up. The best Xmen stories are grounded in the reality of their world building environment. The Dark Phoneix comic involves a fight on the moon with weird aliens and implausible space mechanics. Its fun for comic readers but wont be on the big screen in a serious story which is why I dont expect it to be in the film. In a guardian's film is ok because the tone of story isnt serious. The grounded films of the Xmen have been much better than the MCUs fantastical CGI driven fan servicing crowd pleasers from a story perspective and thats not an opinion its a demonstrable fact.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 6, 2018 14:37:03 GMT
Considering theres been no new release from Fox since Logan, you're metaphor fails because it hasnt happened. Because of their incompetence and inability to keep up with the times. The DCEU hasn't been good so far because they tainted everything by trying to be like Nolan at first and only transitioning to the more fantastical RELUCTANTLY. It would help. ...No they're not! Nothing about the better X-Men stories has even been "grounded". Says you.
It very much is an opinion. None of the earlier X-Men movies would do well in todays' environment. Not X1 or X2.
The X-Men movies only have one story that they've been repeating for 18 years.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 6, 2018 15:23:05 GMT
The DCEU hasn't been good so far because they tainted everything by trying to be like Nolan at first and only transitioning to the more fantastical RELUCTANTLY. Man of Steel isnt grounded like Nolans films. It has an alien invasion and alien technology. Do you even remember the opening scene on Krypton. Not grounded in terms of fantastical element's but grounded in the dramatics of the story at hand. And the films relay that intent very well without the added wondrous stuff. [/p][/quote] The stories told in the good Xmen films are intricate and layered compared to pure aesethic films like Dr Strange, Ragnarok and Gotg 1/2. All have very simple straightforward run of the mill plots. Thats why Xmens grounded films > MCUs wondrous counterparts from a story telling perspective. And its not an opinion because it is quantifiable. Put X2, X1, First Class out today and they would do very well like Logan has demonstrated. People want variety, not the same CGI comedy no stakes sitcoms every 2 months. And if you think theyv been repeating the same story, your not paying attention close enough.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 6, 2018 15:29:10 GMT
Man of Steel isnt grounded like Nolans films. It tries to be. There were just some elements they couldn't discard. No, they just tell the same one story over and over. Just by dumb luck the actors are able to carry it with their performances so the audiences have SOMETHING to engage them. Repetitive and predictable. They aren't ashamed of themselves, if that's what you mean. Are outdated. Wouldn't do so well and people would be more willing to point out their flaws than they were back when they came out. Then they won't enjoy those X-Films if they came out now. Logan only did well because audiences and critics wanted to go easy on it being Jackman and Stewarts' last times in their roles. Like how Unforgiven was treated like some new thing (a deconstruction of a Western) because it was Clint Eastwood's last Western when it truth deconstructions had been done for decades.
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Post by charzhino on Feb 6, 2018 15:44:26 GMT
It tries to be. There were just some elements they couldn't discard. Like what. Its not the same story over and over. Much like the comics, the mutant oppression theme is constantly mentioned in bypassing undertones even if the main story has nothing to do with it. And its the same in the movies, the main plot can be something completely irrelevant like in The Wolverine, but the character Shinjin will still make a reference to how he thinks mutants are Gods mistake and treat them with contempt. Nice summation of the Avenger films. Thats got nothing to do with them having a simple plot like, Doctor gets injured, travels to Tibet, learns magic and defeats 1 dimensional villain. What an embarrasing ashamed story. Oh, i didn't realise they stopped making Xmen films 5 years ago because no one is enjoying watching them.
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Post by formersamhmd on Feb 6, 2018 15:49:50 GMT
It tries to be. There were just some elements they couldn't discard. Like what. Him coming from an alien world and there being aliens in the setting, for one thing. Humans doing something bad to mutants, mutants responding. X-Men doing their best to maintain the status quo. If you're expecting them to kill off the entire cast and destroy the world, maybe. With a few changes, you could describe Batman Begins. At least Dr Strange gave us a hero who openly said "I'm a Doctor who swore to do no harm and now I'm a killer! I never asked to be conscripted into a war!" and an inventive way of stopping his villains. They're running on nostalgia goodwill alone now.
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sheevshayhair
Freshman
"Truth is like poetry. And most people fucking hate poetry"
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Post by sheevshayhair on Feb 6, 2018 22:15:44 GMT
Marvel characters and the XMEN characters will all eventually be phased out. Wolverine was one of the first major characters to go. I thought "Logan" was a fantastic way to do it. Great movie.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 6, 2018 22:26:06 GMT
I saw it on HBO.
I wasn't all that impressed.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 6, 2018 23:01:40 GMT
I saw it on HBO. I wasn't all that impressed. I saw the Eagles barely hang on and still need Tom Brady choking to beat a mediocre Pats team in a boring game nobody outside of Boston and Philly cared about to win an embarrassing first Super Bowl ever in 2018, proving arguably more about how terrible the franchise and its fans have been historically than anything else even by becoming champions. I wasn't all that impressed.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 6, 2018 23:05:22 GMT
I saw the Eagles barely hang on and still need Tom Brady choking to beat a mediocre Pats team in a boring game nobody outside of Boston and Philly cared about to win an embarrassing first Super Bowl ever in 2018, proving arguably more about how terrible the franchise and its fans have been historically than anything else even by becoming champions. I wasn't all that impressed. I'm not an Eagles fan. I just hate the Pats.
Doesn't make my points any less valid.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 6, 2018 23:05:29 GMT
I'm not hating on the movie BTW.
I am totally fine with everyone else liking it.
It just didn't click for me.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 6, 2018 23:07:12 GMT
I'm not hating on the movie BTW. I am totally fine with everyone else liking it. It just didn't click for me. What didn't you like about it? And would you have preferred Nick Foles in the titular role?!!!1
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 6, 2018 23:32:29 GMT
I don't really know, but I was sitting there thinking
"oh, it's like Mad Max world"
"oh, he's old and bitter"
"oh, she's a little bad ass"
again, I'm not making fun, I just didn't enjoy it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 0:00:50 GMT
summers8 You need some pussy in your life. Who doesn't?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Feb 7, 2018 0:13:49 GMT
summers8 You need some pussy in your life. Who doesn't? Word to that. You can never have too much. Unless -- well, never mind...
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 7, 2018 1:21:25 GMT
summers8 You need some pussy in your life. Who doesn't?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 24, 2018 21:30:34 GMT
To say the least. It was the best movie I saw in theaters last year. Only one that left me in tears. Nah, you never cried over it.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2018 21:46:04 GMT
because it was a real movie? the comics film of 2017 were not real movies. Yeah they were, they just weren't ashamed of their origins the way Logan and all the FoX-Men movies were. You're ashamed of permenant bannings!
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Post by charzhino on May 25, 2018 10:17:35 GMT
Good thing whoever bumped this thread because shows textbook example of how Formersamhd used to derail threads into oblivion.
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