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Post by Jayman on Jan 18, 2018 23:07:30 GMT
Again, I did not say PC did not exist. I said there wasn't a whole culture and grievance industry as there is now
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 18, 2018 23:11:53 GMT
Our methods may be new, but not what we do with them. There's nothing new to humanity. There have always been people who complained about something. There's no more or less now than there ever was.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 18, 2018 23:15:02 GMT
Again, I did not say PC did not exist. I said there wasn't a whole culture and grievance industry as there is now A viking to another took court. Clearly, they had an industry for it. And as the other poster pointed out, the church most definitely built a culture of grievance around what they felt the rules should be. Many of which went beyond what you could or could not do or say. Heck, in feudal Japan, a samurai could lop off a citizen's head for failing to greet him properly. That's far worse than whatever issues people have with PC. So now is not a bad time. And certainly isn't worse than the past.
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Post by Jayman on Jan 18, 2018 23:29:53 GMT
I see you're point and I see her point too. But I see that more as people in the church had certain ideas of what was moral and what wasn't. That's religion. One person taking another to court is not the same thing. That is quite different from what we have today with a generation that can't get out of bed in the morning until they think of something new to be offended by. The rules are changing faster than we can keep up with
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 18, 2018 23:40:39 GMT
I don't agree that's happening. After all, people used to watch the morning news and be offended. And before that, they'd read the paper and be offended. Now they get it on their phones. They're no different than my generation or my father's. The medium is different, but humanity isn't.
What you're describing is what every past generation has described about the younger generation. It's always the same. The older generation never likes what the younger generation is doing or becoming. These younger people will be complaining about their children just as much as we do about them. It's a never ending cycle.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Things are changing faster than we can keep up. But that does not entail a worsening society.
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Post by Jayman on Jan 18, 2018 23:45:06 GMT
I don't agree that's happening. After all, people used to watch the morning news and be offended. And before that, they'd read the paper and be offended. Now they get it on their phones. They're no different than my generation or my father's. The medium is different, but humanity isn't. What you're describing is what every past generation has described about the younger generation. It's always the same. The older generation never likes what the younger generation is doing or becoming. These younger people will be complaining about their children just as much as we do about them. It's a never ending cycle. I think you hit the nail on the head. Things are changing faster than we can keep up. But that does not entail a worsening society. You can't tell me the PC culture has not grown by leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. That is particularly evident with the college culture and the culture of identity politics. This isn't about a crusty old man saying "in my day we didn't do this or that" . I'm just saying what I see happening. I'm not necessarily saying that that is what worsened our society. I was more responding to another poster at what he called the outrage culture.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 18, 2018 23:58:00 GMT
I in fact can tell you that because that's the exact same thing people said ten years ago. People have been complaining about being PC for decades. It just wasn't labeled that.
However, if by PC culture, you mean people are less tolerant of hearing hateful things spouted off in public, then yes, that has in fact grown. And I'm happy for that. That's a sign society is getting better. There is no real issue with identity politics. If someone wants to correct me on what I can or cannot call them, wonderful. That's something that has always been the polite thing to do. "Don't call me Dick, call me Rich. Don't call me he, call me she." Absolutely, I will. I will happily be PC.
Actually, that's exactly what it is. This outrage culture has always existed. We just have a faster, better medium for getting our outrage out: the internet. Saying it's growing concern is father complaining about my taste in music.
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Post by Jayman on Jan 19, 2018 0:10:26 GMT
My point was that things that are said that are not hateful are being labeled as hate speech by an overly sensitive culture we are creating. Ofcourse the internet and social media has caused it to spread like wildfire. I was just saying that it is true that people were always outraged by things, but the level of that has increased by people being outraged by the most innocent of things.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 1:24:49 GMT
I would like to cast my vote but may I ask the OP to define "society"? I doubt we are all on the same page here.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 19, 2018 14:08:57 GMT
My point was that things that are said that are not hateful are being labeled as hate speech by an overly sensitive culture we are creating. Ofcourse the internet and social media has caused it to spread like wildfire. I was just saying that it is true that people were always outraged by things, but the level of that has increased by people being outraged by the most innocent of things. I think it's just that what some might not consider offensive, others would. Don't forget, the n-word was once considered not offensive. There were people who said the same thing about it as you are. It wasn't offensive to them. That was their equivalent of calling someone black. To them, it was an innocent label and the people who didn't like it were just looking to be outraged. After all, they could vote and had won civil rights. Why do they care what they were called? Newspapers used to run letters from readers where they'd complain about the "little" things. TV had call in shows where people did the same. The levels have never changed. Just the way they're delivered. The internet has made it faster and easier, but it's the same old hat.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 19, 2018 14:17:09 GMT
I voted "worse."
The good stuff--and there's plenty of good stuff, is like always. It doesn't seem to have really gotten better.
Some of the bad stuff is similar to how it's always been, too.
But there are a couple currents that are far worse than they were in my opinion. Namely:
(1) SJWish bitching and moaning, often about ridiculous, petty shit, and wanting to control what other people can do, say, etc.; it wouldn't matter if they weren't so vocal and influential, but they are.
(2) Terrorism and mass violence in general.
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Post by Caesar Roberto on Jan 19, 2018 14:19:33 GMT
Definitely worse. People seem to be getting dumber and more selfish. We have so much information and knowledge about the things wrong with the world now what with the internet, but still no one fixes the problems, and instead are only interested in money. So many people are dying and no one gives a shit. With the way things are going our world will probably end up a lot like the one in Children of Men. I think life on Earth peaked during 1960s-2000. It's why I don't plan on ever having kids. I just don't see a good future in this horrible society we have created. I really miss the 90s.  Those were the days brahs. Life was so much simpler and better back then.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 19, 2018 14:22:08 GMT
PC culture is another thing that people have always complained about. It just didn't have that label. For as long as a group of people have said, "Please don't call us that or treat us that way. It's hurtful," others have complained about not being able to say whatever they want and that people are just too sensitive. It's like people are arguing for their right to be a dick in public. Which, fine, they're allowed to. But they want to get away with it with no consequences. Sorry, that's not going to happen. That's not a right. With respect to my lifetime, at least, the folks on what we'd now call the PC or SJW side were never near as influential as they are now. They never had near the power that they do now. They used to be written off more or less as weirdly conservative loons. There wasn't an impression that they were the mainstream. That's what's worse about it.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 19, 2018 14:22:13 GMT
(1) Example?
(2) I'd chalk that up to our weapons technology, not society. After all, can you imagine what life would've been like if they had missiles during The Crusades? Or what would've happened during the Civil War if the US had airplanes and tanks?
So much of what we complain about "society" is just merely due to the technology at hand. It's not the society that's changing. It's the technology we use.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2018 14:24:06 GMT
Society overall used to respect moderate viewpoints as those that unified those at either extreme and provided solutions. The extremists have gone so far apart that they just push off moderates as noncommittal and wishy washy. Our extremes are unable to see middle ground on so many things anymore.
It's a pendulum, we've seen it before in society, sadly when it's swinging away like this, it has never ended well. If history's any lesson, it's going to get a whole lot worse before it gets batter.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 19, 2018 14:24:23 GMT
Definitely worse. People seem to be getting dumber and more selfish. We have so much information and knowledge about the things wrong with the world now what with the internet, but still no one fixes the problems, and instead are only interested in money. So many people are dying and no one gives a shit. With the way things are going our world will probably end up a lot like the one in Children of Men. It's not just money. People will spend endless amounts of time and energy worrying about whether Trump said "shithole" or whether Clinton got a extramarital blowjob. It's insane.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jan 19, 2018 14:25:53 GMT
(1) Example? (2) I'd chalk that up to our weapons technology, not society. After all, can you imagine what life would've been like if they had missiles during The Crusades? Or what would've happened during the Civil War if the US had airplanes and tanks? So much of what we complain about "society" is just merely due to the technology at hand. It's not the society that's changing. It's the technology we use. Example? Almost every thread on this board. The whole "MeToo" nonsense, the whole calling everything racist, and on and on. Re the second point, we haven't just invented bombs and guns.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 19, 2018 14:26:57 GMT
Definitely worse. People seem to be getting dumber and more selfish. We have so much information and knowledge about the things wrong with the world now what with the internet, but still no one fixes the problems, and instead are only interested in money. So many people are dying and no one gives a shit. With the way things are going our world will probably end up a lot like the one in Children of Men. I think life on Earth peaked during 1960s-2000. It's why I don't plan on ever having kids. I just don't see a good future in this horrible society we have created. I really miss the 90s.  Those were the days brahs. Life was so much simpler and better back then. For some people. In many places in the 90s, being gay was still a crime. Being transgendered involved getting attacked and beaten. Both groups were killed just for being who they were. To hell with the 90's. I grew up in the 80s, when gay people were blamed for AIDS. To hell with the 80s too. I'll take on-line complaining any day over a group of people being attacked just for not falling in line with what others feel should be the norm.
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Post by Caesar Roberto on Jan 19, 2018 14:29:22 GMT
Definitely worse. People seem to be getting dumber and more selfish. We have so much information and knowledge about the things wrong with the world now what with the internet, but still no one fixes the problems, and instead are only interested in money. So many people are dying and no one gives a shit. With the way things are going our world will probably end up a lot like the one in Children of Men. It's not just money. People will spend endless amounts of time and energy worrying about whether Trump said "shithole" or whether Clinton got a extramarital blowjob. It's insane. Yes. This new internet culture of making big deals about these stupid trivial things is pathetic and really annoys me. These idiots are wasting their lives. None of that crap will matter in the end.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 19, 2018 14:31:03 GMT
(1) Example? (2) I'd chalk that up to our weapons technology, not society. After all, can you imagine what life would've been like if they had missiles during The Crusades? Or what would've happened during the Civil War if the US had airplanes and tanks? So much of what we complain about "society" is just merely due to the technology at hand. It's not the society that's changing. It's the technology we use. Example? Almost every thread on this board. The whole "MeToo" nonsense, the whole calling everything racist, and on and on. Re the second point, we haven't just invented bombs and guns. Wait a minute. So you consider women coming out with their stories of sexual assault "petty" and "ridiculous"? I'm sorry, but women being assaulted is not nonsense. And we haven't just invented terrorism and mass violence either. The point is we think it's worse but that's because our technology, as with everything else, made it easier. But it's always been there.
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