ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 21:42:18 GMT
Your interpretation is the issue. Just because you use your inner 'dark' side as access to force powers does not mean you will be a hate filled monster that would want to kill his mother. Also...he did try to kill her...what did I miss there? As it seems the whole point of the movie. Nevermind. There isn't much of a point to the movie aside from a feminist agenda and racial diversity. Oh, and kill the past to make way for the future. So....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:42:45 GMT
I just don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with me. Forget about the past. Join me, and together we shall rule this forum. Please? That's funny, it really is, but what do you actually want from me? I want the truth. So help me, if you post a meme of Jack Nicholson, I will put you back on ignore! What do you actually want from me? I engaged you, you blitzkrieged me with F bombs. I let that slide and tried to talk about The Last Jedi again and you said I was stupid. You essentially said you did not want my opinion. So, I graciously left you alone and asked you to do the same. You translated that as me asking you to harass me. I asked you to stop harassing me and I told you plainly I would report if you didn't. You got banned and immediately started calling me out again. I took admin's advice and ignored you. And then just when I thought you had let it go, you mentioned and tagged me several times today. So I'm just here to ask you what you want from me. You clearly want something. What is it?
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 21:48:10 GMT
Forget about the past. Join me, and together we shall rule this forum. Please? That's funny, it really is, but what do you actually want from me? I want the truth. So help me, if you post a meme of Jack Nicholson, I will put you back on ignore! What do you actually want from me? I engaged you, you blitzkrieged me with F bombs. I let that slide and tried to talk about The Last Jedi again and you said I was stupid. You essentially said you did not want my opinion. So, I graciously left you alone and asked you to do the same. You translated that as me asking you to harass me. I asked you to stop harassing me and I told you plainly I would report if you didn't. You got banned and immediately started calling me out again. I took admin's advice and ignored you. And then just when I thought you had let it go, you mentioned and tagged me several times today. So I'm just here to ask you what you want from me. You clearly want something. What is it? For you to demand that your minions stop harassing me. Specially Ryboto. Please?
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 21:49:06 GMT
correct, MCU fan should try to watch (and comprehend) the PT especially the famous Opera scene. Not killing your mommy but killing millions of others including your father will suffice. Also, as for Leia: Kylo boy may no have shot Leia into space himself but he let it happen and did not pout and whine about it a bit (he pouts and Emo-frets about spilled moof milk - see his constantly trembling under-lip): Plus: late in the film (Act 3), the gives the order to kill everyone of the rebels/resistance and not to take prisoners. the point is, let the past go. He had the leader of the rebellion in his sights but didn't shoot. A true dark side user would not hesitate. Sidious, Maul, tyrannus. Maybe Vader if the sand people didn't catch her first. He didn't let go of the past. He couldn't. After the confrontation with snoke and Rey, and the speech he gives he might. The whole point of the movie is confront your past... And what you do with it. Luke goes as a hero. Leia with hope. Rey with newfound objective. Kylo as a true dark Sider. All of them had to forget the past and start anew. The tragedy is that the bad guy is the one who is right, but has the wrong motivation. I like that. This, again, is your interpretation. What about Jacen? You followed the EU. What about someone who doesn't identify as a Sith because they don't care about the 'rules', and just uses the 'dark' side? Why does that immediately make them horrible? Leia was floating in space, presumably dead. Then later, as Tristan stated, he gives the order to kill everyone.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 1, 2018 21:50:02 GMT
Forget about the past. Join me, and together we shall rule this forum. Please? That's funny, it really is, but what do you actually want from me? I want the truth. So help me, if you post a meme of Jack Nicholson, I will put you back on ignore! What do you actually want from me? I engaged you, you blitzkrieged me with F bombs. I let that slide and tried to talk about The Last Jedi again and you said I was stupid. You essentially said you did not want my opinion. So, I graciously left you alone and asked you to do the same. You translated that as me asking you to harass me. I asked you to stop harassing me and I told you plainly I would report if you didn't. You got banned and immediately started calling me out again. I took admin's advice and ignored you. And then just when I thought you had let it go, you mentioned and tagged me several times today. So I'm just here to ask you what you want from me. You clearly want something. What is it? It all kind of reminds me of passing notes in class..
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:52:07 GMT
Lol.
Minions! As your glorified leader, I COE-MAHND YOU to put Mcufan on ignore!
<raises pointed hand>
Do it....or suffer my roar power!
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 21:54:36 GMT
the point is, let the past go. He had the leader of the rebellion in his sights but didn't shoot. A true dark side user would not hesitate. Sidious, Maul, tyrannus. Maybe Vader if the sand people didn't catch her first. He didn't let go of the past. He couldn't. After the confrontation with snoke and Rey, and the speech he gives he might. The whole point of the movie is confront your past... And what you do with it. Luke goes as a hero. Leia with hope. Rey with newfound objective. Kylo as a true dark Sider. All of them had to forget the past and start anew. The tragedy is that the bad guy is the one who is right, but has the wrong motivation. I like that. This, again, is your interpretation. What about Jacen? You followed the EU. What about someone who doesn't identify as a Sith because they don't care about the 'rules', and just uses the 'dark' side? Why does that immediately make them horrible? Leia was floating in space, presumably dead. Then later, as Tristan stated, he gives the order to kill everyone. yes it's my interpretation. The correct one.
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 21:54:59 GMT
Lol. Minions! As your glorified leader, I COE-MAHND YOU to put Mcufan on ignore! <raises pointed hand> Do it....or suffer my roar power! thank you...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:55:06 GMT
That's funny, it really is, but what do you actually want from me? I want the truth. So help me, if you post a meme of Jack Nicholson, I will put you back on ignore! What do you actually want from me? I engaged you, you blitzkrieged me with F bombs. I let that slide and tried to talk about The Last Jedi again and you said I was stupid. You essentially said you did not want my opinion. So, I graciously left you alone and asked you to do the same. You translated that as me asking you to harass me. I asked you to stop harassing me and I told you plainly I would report if you didn't. You got banned and immediately started calling me out again. I took admin's advice and ignored you. And then just when I thought you had let it go, you mentioned and tagged me several times today. So I'm just here to ask you what you want from me. You clearly want something. What is it? For you to demand that your minions stop harassing me. Specially Ryboto. Please?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2018 21:56:10 GMT
Lol. Minions! As your glorified leader, I COE-MAHND YOU to put Mcufan on ignore! <raises pointed hand> Do it....or suffer my roar power! thank you... <shrugs shoulders> Okay. Now can I go back to putting you on ignore?
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Post by mcufan on Feb 1, 2018 21:58:29 GMT
<shrugs shoulders> Okay. Now can I go back to putting you on ignore? Sure...
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Feb 2, 2018 1:46:47 GMT
There was no onscreen exposition about how long Luke's training was in TESB. But according to the novelization it was weeks. And there is nothing onscreen that would conflict that. You mean you don't know what you're doing when you stick out your hand and use the Force to pull a lightsaber to you?!? LOL! Luke sure knew what he was doing when he Force pulled the lightsaber in the Wampa cave. I know what you're going to say next: it was the lightsaber calling her. But we saw in TLJ that there's nothing special about the lightsaber. Luke tossed it over a cliff, and it was unceremoniously destroyed later on. That's a good argument. Unfortunately it cuts both ways. You say after just waking up from being unconscious she didn't have the presence of mind to remember to use the Force in the lightsaber duel. I say after just waking up from being unconscious she shouldn't have had the presence of mind to attempt something in the Force she has never done before, let alone win. Okay. But I already addressed that. Based on the fragments of events we saw onscreen Luke was not in duel mode. He was frantically trying to reason with Kylo. Sure.... Riiiiiiight. The problem with what you saw is onscreen dialogue. I could be wrong but I don't recall any dialogue from Kylo requesting Rey to come see him. It seemed to be all Rey's desire - or how she interpreted the things he said. But it was clear in Snoke's dialogue that he definitely said he was manipulating what Rey and Kylo saw of each other through the Force. If you don't believe me go back and watch the movie again. You claim you've seen it multiple times so you should know what I said about Snoke is true. And Kylo bare chested... you may have been put off by it but there's no doubt it was played for sexual innuendo towards Rey. And despite Disney trying to insinuate that it's a platonic relationship, there's no doubt Rey reacted to it with attraction. Grumpy uncle Luke had to interrupt their handholding and gazing into each other's eyes with a loud scolding. Mace Windu used a lightsaber dueling style and Force training called the Vaapad (I believe I pronounced that right). The user committed oneself to aggression and relative apathy towards enemies in battle. It allowed one to draw partially from the Darkside or "skirt close to it" without fully going over to the Darkside and remaining in the Light. We saw a perfect example of it at work when Mace killed Jango Fett. I admire your spunk. But it can't help but be misguided defending some this Disney SW stuff. It has more holes than a piece of Swiss cheese riddled by a machine gun.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 2, 2018 2:17:45 GMT
Lol. Minions! As your glorified leader, I COE-MAHND YOU to put Mcufan on ignore! <raises pointed hand> Do it....or suffer my roar power! I'm not afraid! Ignoring them hides all their posts, yea?
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Post by mcufan on Feb 2, 2018 9:26:29 GMT
Like i said, this one got lost. I'l answer it now. Answer. It dosen't need an answer you açready answered it. He was taken aback and like I said he is emotionally unstable, and the resistance to his probe takes him aback. Like i said before also (i hate to repeat myself) It's not that he loses sometimes it's your statement that he ALWAYS loses that is wrong. Oh come ooooon, You can do better than it was in the novelization. That's the lowest form of argument you can give.... Let's wait for the novel fot TLJ to discuss it, or some other books that address things why don't we? Let's wait 20 years. I'm sure by then alll will be explained. It's lazy writing and lousy filmmaking if you can't convey properly the passage of time on the screen! Unless it's implied, but that is conjecture. It's the same argument you use against TLJ. If something isn't explicitly explained you just asssume it's lazy writing. SW it's riddled with lazy writing. Why target one specifically? Ghost JEdi without explanation? IT's LAZY writing so we can have SIr ALec Guiness Back to do some heavy exposition!!! Luke and LEia Brothers? Convinient and LAZY writing. And don't say that wasn't thrown in the mix at the last minute because it was... BUUUUT if you want explanation by books, there's one where REY finds a freighter, learns to fix it and fly it, she even has a flight simulator to train, that's why she can pilot the Falcon! It's called before the awakening. But guess what, in the movie it's not explained, and it's lazy writing, or, in my opinion you accept it because there are explanantions you don't need. Like how come Anakin without any training whatsoever is able to tap into the force to pilot a pod racer and see things before they happen. Instinct, the living force. It's a thing. Or you know Lazy writing. Your double standard amazes me. She saw what Kylo was doing. Like I said she mimes stuff but dosen't know what she is doing, only that it works. That's more lazy writing... No once before you see Force pull used in ANH in front of Luke but convinently it exists so the hero can be freeed, because the script demands it! It's a new power, oh boy i'm excited, or i'm going to pout because it wasn´t explained prior to that scene? Double standards. Yes, it cuts both ways. Let's leave it at that? Not according to Kylo (Oh you believe in Luke but not Kylo, that's a good thing, because Rey's parentahge was revealed by him. We will discuss it in a later date). And even if Luke was in the defensive a master shouldn't be defeated so easily. DEFEATED as in Kylo won that confrontation. Damn Luke exhiled himself because of Kylo, if that's not having the upperhand I don't know what is. You see things like very basic stuff don't you? The supreme defeat is a lightsaber duel... How frivolous. You like shiny things on screen i get it. But the most powerfull stuff is not who is best in a lightsaber duel. Yoda never used a lightsaber. Judge him by his lack of lightsaberish? well you should not, because well prequels... 20 years later. I did and Snoke clearly states that he initiated the Link, but he Also congratulates Kylo for bringing him REY. Snoke congratulates KYLO, not himself. Kylo manipulated REY to bring her to Snoke, so he could kill him and be supreme leader, hopefully with a new apprentice, REY. Answering again your question, yes KYLO won that round. Oh you meant shiny things... Yeahthere are bigger things than lightsabers you know... So yeah Kylo has the upper hand a lot of times. Again, stuff that isn't in the movies... Is it? We all knew MAce was hmmm shaky and we accept it, again double standards, but it's never stated in the movies you had to go fetch a book. Come on be better than that, Or else i'll just have to start calling owen Lars obi-wan's brother like in the novel. Look, all SW it's filled to the brim with things you can't explain just by looking at the movies, but what was always asked is to accept it. It make take 20 years but it will be explained, maybe, somethings never will. What baffles me is, how can you judge a trilogy before it is over, before all content is revealed, but use those same arguments for stuff that, at the time had no explanation either. Heck somebody was using an argument that Rey couldn't know combat because she only uses her staff and a lighsaber is different, but when Luke, the great pilot is given an X-wing because he was good at shooting womp rats with a skyhopper nobody bats a freaking eye? Give me a break. Sure a freaking skyhopper is the same thing as an X-wing. SUUUUUUUURE that's not stretching the imagination.... And don't get me started on pod-racing Anakin that defeats a droid army with nothing. No training, never flown a fighter, nothing. He's just strong with the force and that's it. But Fuck if REY does it it's nonsense. The difference is we know who he is going to become and accept it, but that dosen't make it right. If you see the episodes in order it makes no freaking sense AT ALL! DOUBLE STANDARDS! If you accept all the Bullshit that SW threw at you all over the years, why don't you accept the new bullshit? Is it because rey is a lady? LOL I like the bullshit. I love it, all of it, the explanations, the retcons, finding inconsistencies, waiting for a book that explains something not in the movies. I LOVE IT. And I don't want it to end. The ST is the first SW since ROTJ that has nothing, absolutely nothing to cling to. The PT had the OT! You know what's next for the ST? Me neither. That is driving some guys crazy. LOL. Just accept it and enjoy the bullshit, it will all be alright. Generations of people including me, had the privilege of accepting similar bulshit with the OT. Maybe that's what you lack. You never lived in a world where SW had a blank slate aheaf of it. I did and it's amazing. This bikering is shit. So, for now don't bother replying (maybe you took my advice and put me in ignore, but someone will read this). I'm going to wait for the novelazation of TLJ so i can throw some more stuff at you, or you know, episode IX.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 2, 2018 12:13:22 GMT
I love when people compare Anakin's Mr. Bean moment to accomplishments that actually showcase skill and aptitude.
The new bullshit is more bullshit than any bullshit before it. That's the trouble. It requires retcons, too many. It requires all this discussion and someone like MCUFAN to make justification of the plot points. Had the film fit organically into the universe, only portions of the flick might get nitpicked compared to the entire film needing a defense for existing.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2018 15:25:15 GMT
Lol. Minions! As your glorified leader, I COE-MAHND YOU to put Mcufan on ignore! <raises pointed hand> Do it....or suffer my roar power! I'm not afraid! Ignoring them hides all their posts, yea? There's ignore where you don't get notifications and then there's hide where you can't see their posts. It seems to be what she wants after all. And I'm only doing what she asked me to do. I've never gotten to give a command like that before. It was fun.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Feb 2, 2018 17:11:47 GMT
Like i said, this one got lost. I'l answer it now. Answer. It dosen't need an answer you açready answered it. He was taken aback and like I said he is emotionally unstable, and the resistance to his probe takes him aback. Like i said before also (i hate to repeat myself) It's not that he loses sometimes it's your statement that he ALWAYS loses that is wrong. If he were as emotionally unstable as you imply then why did he fight back the first moment he sensed Rey resisting? But let's not get off track from the original point. Despite what you say, trained Kylo ALWAYS loss against Rey whenever she used the Force. Always. Tell me when he didn't. Prove me wrong. I'll be waiting... Nice speech!... But your response shows that you totally missed the point of me bringing up the novelization. The point is that the time period of Luke's training on Dagobah (in TESB) is completely indeterminate. One person can look at it and think it was less than 24 hours, and another person could look at it and think it occurred over a month or more. There isn't any quantitative clues. Your total guess about it was it was a few days at most. And you stated like it was a factual conclusion to what you saw onscreen. But it's not. It was just a total guess on your part. So don't go saying Luke had a day or two of training on Dagobah because that's not supported onscreen. Okay, let's take your point about Rey first. I know all about the novelization. I already knew ALL of those novelization points that you brought up. Truth be told I'm not one of the people criticizing Rey about piloting the Millennium Falcon on Jakku. (Where did you get the impression that I was?) I think a fair argument could be made for Rey having legitimate piloting skills under the circumstances, whether a person knows about the novelization or not. (For the sake of time I won't go into details). The only problem I did have however (and personally this is only a nitpick) is how they framed it. It was like they wanted it to have a MarySue vibe to add to other things in TFA that legitimately gave that stigma to Rey. After Rey won that dogfight she is so amazed by her own self that (in that unintelligible gush fest with Finn) she blabbering on how she can't believe she did that. If you ever watch TFA with subtitles you will actually see that Rey makes a reference to the freighter flight you brought up in the novelization. But it's buried in that garbled OMG fest between Rey and Finn. As for your point about little Ani in the pod-race, there was exposition given on that. He was using the Force to enhance things he had done before. And I can't emphasize this enough... he was not using the Force against another trained Force user!How many times do I have to say it? Luke did those things of his own accord not having to compete against another Force user. The only time Luke ever succeeded against another Force user was at the end of ROTJ (and it wasn't easy, unlike Rey).To meme Vader when he told Luke "There is no conflict!!" - There is no double standard! Yep. Well we don't know what happened, do we? We know Luke was left for dead under a pile of rubble. Don't accuse me of oversimplifying it when you're trying to do the same thing. Luke exiled himself more out of guilt and attempting to kill his nephew; not so much because of a "loss to Kylo". It's just a muddled example of a duel because we don't know any of the specifics beyond the fragments we saw onscreen. However we do know all of the specifics of Luke and Kylo's duel at the end of TLJ. That's my point. Kylo's version of events vs Luke's has nothing to do with the point. Not sure why you brought it up? Unfortunately this is more proof that you see what you want to see to rationalize legitimate storytelling weaknesses, rather than what's onscreen. Watch the movie again... There's a line from Snoke where he tells Kylo that he was manipulating him also, not just Rey. Then watch closely Kylo's reaction when Snoke tells him that. Watch Kylo's facial expression. It's an expression of complete shock and surprise! So this big fanfic explanation that Kylo was playing everybody (Snoke and Rey), and coerced Rey there to help kill Snoke just simply isn't onscreen. And I've only seen the movie once! LOL! Nice rant! I'm not going to address all of that stuff because half of it was a rant. And you assume that I line up with all of your accusations in it. But since you brought up the X-wing vs Skyhopper thing, the controls on the Skyhopper are very similar to an X-wing's. Research it. So it's not a big stretch of imagination in that example. Go ahead, knock yourself out! Go get some more ammunition when the novelization comes out... LOL As far as you asking me not reply to you anymore - just remember I created this thread and it is you who made the first reply. Have fun locking me out of your echo chamber...
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Feb 2, 2018 17:46:59 GMT
MCUFAN needs to watch Mauler's videos..here's number 3
enough issues with the movie for him to make 3+ hours of critiquing.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Feb 2, 2018 19:11:53 GMT
Because Rian Johnson is a moron.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on Feb 4, 2018 0:40:51 GMT
Okay, here's the groundwork: From TFA and TLJ we know that Snoke was Kylo's master and he at least partially trained him... (at the end of TFA Snoke says it's time that Kylo finish/complete his training). We know from TLJ that Kylo was an apprentice at Luke's Jedi academy... (Sorry TFA defenders who claimed that Kylo could've been a student interview of Luke and a rejection - the implication being he received virtually no training and didn't have an advantage over Rey in that department. You know who you are). So here's the question: Since Rey had no training and Luke had cut himself off from the Force for a decade and a half, how is it that Kylo Ren (who has had more training than either one over the past decade) a constant loser to Rey and Luke? How do you explain that? Kylo Ren is conflicted between the light side and dark side of the force, as well as his fear that he'll never live up to his grandfather. Killing his dad was supposed to solve this, but as we saw when he spared Leia, he is still torn. Rey, I suppose as part of her Sue-hood, has no such conflictions and self-doubts. Luke cut himself off from the force for x years, but when he reconnects, he reconnects. The constant roadblock I encounter in all these arguments is people treating the force like it's the gym. "Luke stopped working out, his muscle should have turned to fat!" "Kylo Ren's put the most hours in, he should be swoll, bro!" "Rey doesn't have enough prep and training, does she even lift?!" It's like people listened to Luke instead of Yoda in those ESB scenes. "Moving stones is one thing, but this ship is too big and I'm a newb!" "No, idiot, it's that you don't believe you can." "Hmm...nah. I'm maxed out, dawg." Also, what does this have to do with the PT? But since you brought up, if Dooku is stronger than Obi-Wan, and Anakin is stronger than Dooku, why isn't Anakin able to pummel Obi-Wan either of the times they fight?
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