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Post by Rodney Farber on Feb 7, 2018 13:16:00 GMT
If you believe in life after death (redux) ....
Two weeks ago, I started a thread about life after death. It immediately degenerated into a debate about whether suicide is in the Bible. So let's take suicide out of the equation.
This question is for hard-core theists.
So, if you believe in life after death, why not live dangerously. Do you visit a doctor? If you believe in life after death, why bother going to a doctor. Having a heart attack? Don't bother calling for an ambulance because you will soon "be in a better place". Why bother to get a flu shot because God will take care of you. If someone dares you to walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon, go ahead because if you die, it's no big deal. Why not drive 120 MPH, it will save you time here and if you crash, it will shorten the time before you meet Jesus.
In other words, do you reaaaaaaalllly believe in life after death, cause I sure have my doubts.
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Post by kls on Feb 7, 2018 13:35:14 GMT
If you believe in life after death (redux) .... Two weeks ago, I started a thread about life after death. It immediately degenerated into a debate about whether suicide is in the Bible. So let's take suicide out of the equation. This question is for hard-core theists. So, if you believe in life after death, why not live dangerously. Do you visit a doctor? If you believe in life after death, why bother going to a doctor. Having a heart attack? Don't bother calling for an ambulance because you will soon "be in a better place". Why bother to get a flu shot because God will take care of you. If someone dares you to walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon, go ahead because if you die, it's no big deal. Why not drive 120 MPH, it will save you time here and if you crash, it will shorten the time before you meet Jesus. In other words, do you reaaaaaaalllly believe in life after death, cause I sure have my doubts. Because Heaven can wait. There is no reason to meet Jesus any more quickly than necessary. If you believe in the afterlife with Him it's eternal life. It's not like you'll have fewer days in Heaven if you live a long life here when it will never end once you get there. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 7, 2018 13:49:12 GMT
If one believes in any life at all then death would suck and life ain't that bad anyway.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 7, 2018 13:54:24 GMT
I've got a better one for hard core atheists. There's a video on Youtube from CNN about a 5 year old terminally ill child, whose parents let her pick if she wanted to go back to the hospital, which at best could only offer excruciatingly painful treatments to prolong her life, or she could stay at home for the remainder of whatever time she had left, and just go to Heaven when it was her time. A lot of atheists are VERY upset with this video and with the family's decision to let her choose, primarily because they say the parents lied to her about going to Heaven, they are very deeply troubled that a child was told she'll go to a wonderful place when she dies, even though they insist there's no form of afterlife whatsoever, so there's absolutely NO way she could ever know she was lied to. If there's nothing after this life, why would that 'lie' bother atheists who believe there's absolutely nothing once you die? How could you be so bothered by a lie that you truly believed would NEVER be found out? It really implies they think there's SOME kind of afterlife and when it doesn't live up to her expectations she'll be heartbroken. For an atheist, WHAT kind of sense does that make?
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 7, 2018 13:58:10 GMT
If you believe in life after death (redux) .... Two weeks ago, I started a thread about life after death. It immediately degenerated into a debate about whether suicide is in the Bible. So let's take suicide out of the equation. This question is for hard-core theists. So, if you believe in life after death, why not live dangerously. Do you visit a doctor? If you believe in life after death, why bother going to a doctor. Having a heart attack? Don't bother calling for an ambulance because you will soon "be in a better place". Why bother to get a flu shot because God will take care of you. If someone dares you to walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon, go ahead because if you die, it's no big deal. Why not drive 120 MPH, it will save you time here and if you crash, it will shorten the time before you meet Jesus. In other words, do you reaaaaaaalllly believe in life after death, cause I sure have my doubts. I am not a hard-core theist and I don't believe in the Christian or any other religious compartmentalized notion of God, but I believe that it is all holistic and connected and complete and whole. In other words, awareness of being a conscious being, that is in fact GOD. We are the god creator ourselves. The masters and designers of our own universe. Those that believe in the once around journey of going to a better place, or hotter place for some, then the point you have brought up is very valid and relevant. They think that someone, or something is going to be their savior and offer them a way out of the suffering they are in denial of. They\we, are on our own and no-one else is going to do it for us. Living once in human form, just to die and then go to heaven, or hell, depending on the life one has led, is very naive, deluded and ignorant notion of our purpose. I guess they\we will all find out soon enough at some stage. It is all impermanent. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 7, 2018 13:59:25 GMT
Meh, if she were terminal id doesn't matter.
Further, if the parents believed it, it wasn't a lie.
At worst, it was inaccurate.
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Post by kls on Feb 7, 2018 14:01:37 GMT
I've got a better one for hard core atheists. There's a video on Youtube from CNN about a 5 year old terminally ill child, whose parents let her pick if she wanted to go back to the hospital, which at best could only offer excruciatingly painful treatments to prolong her life, or she could stay at home for the remainder of whatever time she had left, and just go to Heaven when it was her time. A lot of atheists are VERY upset with this video and with the family's decision to let her choose, primarily because they say the parents lied to her about going to Heaven, they are very deeply troubled that a child was told she'll go to a wonderful place when she dies, even though they insist there's no form of afterlife whatsoever, so there's absolutely NO way she could ever know she was lied to. If there's nothing after this life, why would that 'lie' bother atheists who believe there's absolutely nothing once you die? How could you be so bothered by a lie that you truly believed would NEVER be found out? It really implies they think there's SOME kind of afterlife and when it doesn't live up to her expectations she'll be heartbroken. For an atheist, WHAT kind of sense does that make? I agree. If they think all the time she has left is brief time in this world why be cruel enough to deny her an idea that gives her comfort at the end? |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 7, 2018 14:04:09 GMT
Because Heaven can wait. There is no reason to meet Jesus any more quickly than necessary. If you believe in the afterlife with Him it's eternal life. It's not like you'll have fewer days in Heaven if you live a long life here when it will never end once you get there. Who is going to meet Jesus though? What Jesus really taught, was that no-one can do it for us and we have to do it all by ourselves, to reach the transcendental state like Christ did. That is the only way out of this middle realm of misery, suffering and mistakes. This is where we are trapped in the deluded ego mind state, and what better place to learn why we are here, that we don't really need to be here. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 7, 2018 14:08:32 GMT
At the end of the day, we are not our bodies and just living life for the objective, physical aspects of our lives—or what we perceive them to be—is only going to hold one back. We either learn there is so much more to our beings than our bodies, or continue to play a part of the cycle of birth, life, death, rebirth, until we attain nirvana or transcendence. Christ knew this and he is not a separate entity or body of a man, that we identity with the human form, that the church has brainwashed onto others to control and manipulate them.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 7, 2018 14:29:41 GMT
I've got a better one for hard core atheists. There's a video on Youtube from CNN about a 5 year old terminally ill child, whose parents let her pick if she wanted to go back to the hospital, which at best could only offer excruciatingly painful treatments to prolong her life, or she could stay at home for the remainder of whatever time she had left, and just go to Heaven when it was her time. A lot of atheists are VERY upset with this video and with the family's decision to let her choose, primarily because they say the parents lied to her about going to Heaven, they are very deeply troubled that a child was told she'll go to a wonderful place when she dies, even though they insist there's no form of afterlife whatsoever, so there's absolutely NO way she could ever know she was lied to. If there's nothing after this life, why would that 'lie' bother atheists who believe there's absolutely nothing once you die? How could you be so bothered by a lie that you truly believed would NEVER be found out? It really implies they think there's SOME kind of afterlife and when it doesn't live up to her expectations she'll be heartbroken. For an atheist, WHAT kind of sense does that make?
If it was my child then I would offer the same choice and, if the kid believed in heaven , why not use it? The suggestion of heaven, at worst is just a sop to make a bad situation seem a bit better (just as it has worked to assuage people with promises of jam tomorrow for those who suffer on earth, down the millennia). But I know that if it was me, an unbeliever from a young age and my parents had tried it on, it would actually have made things worse, since I would have guessed there was no real answer and they were likely just grasping. I guess I am not one of 'most atheists' then.
And, as an atheist I would be more deeply troubled by the fact that God deliberately created natural evil in the first place - and supposedly takes pleasure in His creation too.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Feb 7, 2018 14:42:28 GMT
Because Heaven can wait. There is no reason to meet Jesus any more quickly than necessary. If you believe in the afterlife with Him it's eternal life. It's not like you'll have fewer days in Heaven if you live a long life here when it will never end once you get there.
"Heaven Can Wait"
Heaven can wait,
And a band of Angels wrapped up in my heart,
Will take me through the lonely night,
Through the cold of the day.
And I know, I know,
Heaven can wait,
And all the gods come down here just to sing for me,
And the melody's gonna make me fly,
Without pain, without fear.
Give me all of your dreams,
And let me go alone on your way.
Give me all of your prayers to sing,
And I'll turn the night into the skylight of day.
I got a taste of paradise,
I'm never gonna let it slip away.
I got a taste of paradise,
It's all I really need to make me stay
Just like a child again.
Heaven can wait.
And all I've got is time until the end of time.
I won't look back.
I won't look back.
Let the altars shine.
And I know that I've been released,
But I don't know to where,
And nobody's gonna tell me now,
And I don't really care. No, no, no.
I got a taste of paradise.
That's all I really need to make me stay.
I got a taste of paradise.
If I had it any sooner you know
You know I never would have run away from my home.
Heaven can wait.
And all I've got is time until the end of time.
I won't look back.
I won't look back.
Let the altars shine.
Heaven can wait.
Heaven can wait.
I won't look back.
I won't look back.
Let the altars shine.
Let the altars shine.
www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/meatloaf/heavencanwait.html
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 7, 2018 15:25:53 GMT
tpfkar I've got a better one for hard core atheists. There's a video on Youtube from CNN about a 5 year old terminally ill child, whose parents let her pick if she wanted to go back to the hospital, which at best could only offer excruciatingly painful treatments to prolong her life, or she could stay at home for the remainder of whatever time she had left, and just go to Heaven when it was her time. A lot of atheists are VERY upset with this video and with the family's decision to let her choose, primarily because they say the parents lied to her about going to Heaven, they are very deeply troubled that a child was told she'll go to a wonderful place when she dies, even though they insist there's no form of afterlife whatsoever, so there's absolutely NO way she could ever know she was lied to. If there's nothing after this life, why would that 'lie' bother atheists who believe there's absolutely nothing once you die? How could you be so bothered by a lie that you truly believed would NEVER be found out? It really implies they think there's SOME kind of afterlife and when it doesn't live up to her expectations she'll be heartbroken. For an atheist, WHAT kind of sense does that make? Sounds legit.
Letting Them Die |
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 7, 2018 16:49:55 GMT
If it was my child then I would offer the same choice and, if the kid believed in heaven , why not use it? The suggestion of heaven, at worst is just a sop to make a bad situation seem a bit better (just as it has worked to assuage people with promises of jam tomorrow for those who suffer on earth, down the millennia). But I know that if it was me, an unbeliever from a young age and my parents had tried it on, it would actually have made things worse, since I would have guessed there was no real answer and they were likely just grasping. I guess I am not one of 'most atheists' then.
And, as an atheist I would be more deeply troubled by the fact that God deliberately created natural evil in the first place - and supposedly takes pleasure in His creation too.
A disease isn't evil though, it seems like it, but it's pure nature and biology. If people can accept the existence of diseases as mere bacteria and a fact of science, why do they suddenly feel it becomes evil just because of the idea of both God and diseases existing? |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Feb 7, 2018 17:00:30 GMT
Your time on Earth is finite whether you believe in life after death or not.
So why wouldn't you want to experience and enjoy it a bit longer?
You might as well ask, "If you believe that your life is going to continue into next week, why wouldn't you leave Disney World after you go on just one ride?"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 17:08:01 GMT
Living recklessly may just end up in chronic pain instead of death.
Living recklessly may end up hurting or killing other people and who am I play god for them?
I have children and a wife who depend on me.
A body of work has been carved out for me and I want to complete those tasks before I move on.
I'm in no hurry to go. My afterlife will go on forever, so what's the rush? I enjoy this version of my life.
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Post by novastar6 on Feb 7, 2018 17:51:19 GMT
Obviously since we were put on this earth we were meant to live in it while we're here, we didn't get to decide when we were born, so it's not our call to check out prematurely either.
Although on that note I would like to comment in regards to
Just for eyes and teeth, anything else, no, because I'm not sick, and when I am I tend to that myself.
I don't, this year's especially aren't working anyway. And more to the point, I don't take Tamiflu either, Japan banned this %*@) because it makes you hallucinate and suicidal but in America we are giving it to little children.
That would be a VERY neat trick since I'm nowhere near the %&U@)$&*!Q)%$&(# Grand Canyon and I don't like heights.
Same reason I wear a damn seat belt, cuz I ain't getting a ticket. It's really not that hard to figure out.
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Post by gadreel on Feb 7, 2018 18:33:33 GMT
If you believe in life after death (redux) .... Two weeks ago, I started a thread about life after death. It immediately degenerated into a debate about whether suicide is in the Bible. So let's take suicide out of the equation. This question is for hard-core theists. So, if you believe in life after death, why not live dangerously. Do you visit a doctor? If you believe in life after death, why bother going to a doctor. Having a heart attack? Don't bother calling for an ambulance because you will soon "be in a better place". Why bother to get a flu shot because God will take care of you. If someone dares you to walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon, go ahead because if you die, it's no big deal. Why not drive 120 MPH, it will save you time here and if you crash, it will shorten the time before you meet Jesus. In other words, do you reaaaaaaalllly believe in life after death, cause I sure have my doubts. That is certainly one way to look at it, why not do whatever if I die I get to live again, might as well take all the risks, but even if I 100% am convinced that there is life after death (and all but the most hardcore will have their doubts), I still have no idea what that afterlife might look like, it may not be like this one, this might be the only chance I get to experience this kind of life, no point in throwing that away. |
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 7, 2018 18:51:35 GMT
tpfkar
If it was my child then I would offer the same choice and, if the kid believed in heaven , why not use it? The suggestion of heaven, at worst is just a sop to make a bad situation seem a bit better (just as it has worked to assuage people with promises of jam tomorrow for those who suffer on earth, down the millennia). But I know that if it was me, an unbeliever from a young age and my parents had tried it on, it would actually have made things worse, since I would have guessed there was no real answer and they were likely just grasping. I guess I am not one of 'most atheists' then.
And, as an atheist I would be more deeply troubled by the fact that God deliberately created natural evil in the first place - and supposedly takes pleasure in His creation too.
A disease isn't evil though, it seems like it, but it's pure nature and biology. If people can accept the existence of diseases as mere bacteria and a fact of science, why do they suddenly feel it becomes evil just because of the idea of both God and diseases existing? Well God's not supposed to be random & arbitrary, is he?
Hand of the Almighty |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Feb 7, 2018 18:53:48 GMT
If you believe in life after death (redux) .... Two weeks ago, I started a thread about life after death. It immediately degenerated into a debate about whether suicide is in the Bible. So let's take suicide out of the equation. This question is for hard-core theists. So, if you believe in life after death, why not live dangerously. Do you visit a doctor? If you believe in life after death, why bother going to a doctor. Having a heart attack? Don't bother calling for an ambulance because you will soon "be in a better place". Why bother to get a flu shot because God will take care of you. If someone dares you to walk a tightrope across the Grand Canyon, go ahead because if you die, it's no big deal. Why not drive 120 MPH, it will save you time here and if you crash, it will shorten the time before you meet Jesus. In other words, do you reaaaaaaalllly believe in life after death, cause I sure have my doubts. That is certainly one way to look at it, why not do whatever if I die I get to live again, might as well take all the risks, but even if I 100% am convinced that there is life after death (and all but the most hardcore will have their doubts), I still have no idea what that afterlife might look like, it may not be like this one, this might be the only chance I get to experience this kind of life, no point in throwing that away. Plus, if you listen to the hard-core theists I grew up with, we are here to help others less fortunate, spread the word of god to those who haven't been saved, etc. My Dad also felt that god would be insulted if we didn't live as long as possible to serve god to the fullest. True theists, at least Christian ones that I know, view life, regardless of how difficult it might be, is a gift from god and that they will be richly rewarded if they tough it out. I felt differently. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 7, 2018 18:59:58 GMT
That is certainly one way to look at it, why not do whatever if I die I get to live again, might as well take all the risks, but even if I 100% am convinced that there is life after death (and all but the most hardcore will have their doubts), I still have no idea what that afterlife might look like, it may not be like this one, this might be the only chance I get to experience this kind of life, no point in throwing that away. Plus, if you listen to the hard-core theists I grew up with, we are here to help others less fortunate, spread the word of god to those who haven't been saved, etc. My Dad also felt that god would be insulted if we didn't live as long as possible to serve god to the fullest. True theists, at least Christian ones that I know, view life, regardless of how difficult it might be, is a gift from god and that they will be richly rewarded if they tough it out. I felt differently. It might be all the good things, but the bottom line is that we cannot possibly know what happens after, so might as well get all the experience out of this life that you can. Even if it is shit, the afterlife will make it seem like a moment. |
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