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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 13, 2018 21:12:53 GMT
I don't think the writers could find their asses with a map.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 13, 2018 22:51:31 GMT
*Turning them into their Flashpoint counterparts Ohh that's right. It was the flashpoint versions they were turning them into, not the Earth 2 versions. Still, I am sure the writers could have found a way around that considering the other things they have done and with Black Siren being on Earth 1 it is still possible Doctor Alchemy would have turned her into the flashpoint version of Earth 1 Dinah Laurel Lance who would have most likely still been Laurel or a version close to her. *One of the crazy things about the Savitar story, is that some version of Barry was capable of harnessing speed force energy and using it in such a way as to transform a person to some degree into an itteration that existed in an otherwise lost timeline. This means Barry has the potential to develop a similar ability; which has some broad and profound implications, that will probably never be explored.
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Post by BexxyJ on Mar 14, 2018 5:33:05 GMT
There is no Black Siren anymore. Her name is Laurel and she is the real Black Canary. The Black Canary has returned to us and she is back to kill Felicity for stealing her man. Olicity fans take warning.
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 14, 2018 19:10:46 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 11:23:12 GMT
Ohh that's right. It was the flashpoint versions they were turning them into, not the Earth 2 versions. Still, I am sure the writers could have found a way around that considering the other things they have done and with Black Siren being on Earth 1 it is still possible Doctor Alchemy would have turned her into the flashpoint version of Earth 1 Dinah Laurel Lance who would have most likely still been Laurel or a version close to her. *One of the crazy things about the Savitar story, is that some version of Barry was capable of harnessing speed force energy and using it in such a way as to transform a person to some degree into an itteration that existed in an otherwise lost timeline. This means Barry has the potential to develop a similar ability; which has some broad and profound implications, that will probably never be explored. I think there were a lot of crazy things about the Savitar story and looking back on last season I wish they had made it turn out to be the guy he was in the comic books instead of a different version of Barry 'cause there appears to be a pattern in the 'Arrowverse' with characters who cover up their faces always turning out to be somebody who is close to them and Prometheus and Doctor Alchemy were not the characters in the comic books either (well technically he was in name since it was Albert Desmond and Julian was Julian Albert Desmond) but the characters weren't the same and had they made him his own character instead of Julian possessed by Savitar he would have been a more worthy opponent for the Flash.
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 24, 2018 11:53:36 GMT
This is exactly what Black Siren deserves.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 12:34:21 GMT
This is exactly what Black Siren deserves. Yes but despite all the things they have done with her I have a feeling they are going to kill off Dinah Drake now and have Black Siren join the team as the fourth Black Canary. Even though she is working with Ricardo Diaz now that will probably turn out to be part of a ploy to help Green Arrow capture him and prove her loyalty to the team. I am not sure how they can ever trust her as a member of the team but looking at Renee she is probably more trustworthy at this point and they would at least not be surprised when she went against Oliver's wishes. It would just be "Oops. Black Siren accidentally killed somebody again."
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 28, 2018 12:53:55 GMT
This is exactly what Black Siren deserves. Yes but despite all the things they have done with her I have a feeling they are going to kill off Dinah Drake now and have Black Siren join the team as the fourth Black Canary. Even though she is working with Ricardo Diaz now that will probably turn out to be part of a ploy to help Green Arrow capture him and prove her loyalty to the team. I am not sure how they can ever trust her as a member of the team but looking at Renee she is probably more trustworthy at this point and they would at least not be surprised when she went against Oliver's wishes. It would just be "Oops. Black Siren accidentally killed somebody again." what's kind of funny is that, if this were 20 years ago, the writers would probably just have Oliver give a rousing speech about honor and doing the right thing, and just like that Laurel-2 would choose to walk a more righteous path. That's basically what happened with Xena; and somehow that worked. The 'why' wasn't so significant as much as the fact that she made that turn and fully committed. Then her series was about the implications of someone honestly trying to atone and live down her past; which was occasionally a profound journey. They didn't tease it out or make her actions or loyalty ambiguous. Same thing with Angel on Buffy. The whole thing with him having a "soul" ended being a plot convenience, but it was still the thing that allowed the writers to establish the premise without having to dwell on it or take forever to set it up. Maybe some wacky meta or other McGuffin could cause Laurel-2 and Dinah to become merged entities, with shared memories and integrated personality, but from the outside it looks like Laurel. Or better yet, throw Sara into the mix and it's a combo of all three, and the end result looks like Sara, but takes the name Dinah Lance.
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 28, 2018 18:11:41 GMT
Wow. That statement was trippy as Hell. I really doubt the writers of this show could repeat that let alone execute it properly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2018 11:34:41 GMT
Yes but despite all the things they have done with her I have a feeling they are going to kill off Dinah Drake now and have Black Siren join the team as the fourth Black Canary. Even though she is working with Ricardo Diaz now that will probably turn out to be part of a ploy to help Green Arrow capture him and prove her loyalty to the team. I am not sure how they can ever trust her as a member of the team but looking at Renee she is probably more trustworthy at this point and they would at least not be surprised when she went against Oliver's wishes. It would just be "Oops. Black Siren accidentally killed somebody again." what's kind of funny is that, if this were 20 years ago, the writers would probably just have Oliver give a rousing speech about honor and doing the right thing, and just like that Laurel-2 would choose to walk a more righteous path. That's basically what happened with Xena; and somehow that worked. The 'why' wasn't so significant as much as the fact that she made that turn and fully committed. Then her series was about the implications of someone honestly trying to atone and live down her past; which was occasionally a profound journey. They didn't tease it out or make her actions or loyalty ambiguous. Same thing with Angel on Buffy. The whole thing with him having a "soul" ended being a plot convenience, but it was still the thing that allowed the writers to establish the premise without having to dwell on it or take forever to set it up. Maybe some wacky meta or other McGuffin could cause Laurel-2 and Dinah to become merged entities, with shared memories and integrated personality, but from the outside it looks like Laurel. Or better yet, throw Sara into the mix and it's a combo of all three, and the end result looks like Sara, but takes the name Dinah Lance. I just thought of something. Imagine if they had Dinah Drake and Black Siren merged together. They would be constantly getting into arguments with themselves and hitting themselves. Those are two characters that don't like each other and I don't see that ever changing now if they have them on the same team after what Black Siren did to Vince. I suppose it is still possible to merge Black Siren with with Laurel or give her all of her memories but perhaps a good thing to do would be to have her lose her memories of being Black Siren and go back to when she was Dinah Laurel Lance. From what they have said Black Siren was just like the Laurel we all know up until something happened to her and she become bad so putting her back to that point would make her good but would probably see her be less experienced with her powers and fighting skills. I am not sure how they are going to pull it off but I do think Black Siren is going to end up being good but hopefully the writers show it and they don't just go from one week Black Siren being a villain and the next everybody trusts and likes her and she is the new Laurel 'cause that would look really bad.
It is funny you mention Angel with a soul. I don't know if you watch 'Supernatural' but they were originally going to do something similar to that with Crowley with human blood and dropped it and I would have actually liked to have seen Crowley get a conscious and want to redeem himself for all the bad things he did 'cause it would have been such a different take on the character. In the case of Black Siren I don't think they can just give her a soul and make her good in this show but giving her Laurel's memories could change her and would be interesting to see.
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Post by BexxyJ on Apr 2, 2018 14:40:42 GMT
what's kind of funny is that, if this were 20 years ago, the writers would probably just have Oliver give a rousing speech about honor and doing the right thing, and just like that Laurel-2 would choose to walk a more righteous path. That's basically what happened with Xena; and somehow that worked. The 'why' wasn't so significant as much as the fact that she made that turn and fully committed. Then her series was about the implications of someone honestly trying to atone and live down her past; which was occasionally a profound journey. They didn't tease it out or make her actions or loyalty ambiguous. Same thing with Angel on Buffy. The whole thing with him having a "soul" ended being a plot convenience, but it was still the thing that allowed the writers to establish the premise without having to dwell on it or take forever to set it up. Maybe some wacky meta or other McGuffin could cause Laurel-2 and Dinah to become merged entities, with shared memories and integrated personality, but from the outside it looks like Laurel. Or better yet, throw Sara into the mix and it's a combo of all three, and the end result looks like Sara, but takes the name Dinah Lance. I just thought of something. Imagine if they had Dinah Drake and Black Siren merged together. They would be constantly getting into arguments with themselves and hitting themselves. Those are two characters that don't like each other and I don't see that ever changing now if they have them on the same team after what Black Siren did to Vince.
That reminds me of The Nutty Professor with Eddie Murphy.
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Post by BexxyJ on Apr 2, 2018 14:42:22 GMT
Black Siren doesn't. Katie Cassidy does for being shafted for Felicity. What were they thinking?
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Post by General Kenobi on Apr 2, 2018 20:34:05 GMT
They were thinking the quirky blonde was far more popular. They were wrong but refuse to admit and fix their mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2018 12:48:53 GMT
They were thinking the quirky blonde was far more popular. They were wrong but refuse to admit and fix their mistake. And not to mention they gave in to a bunch of bullies that went far enough with their hate to cyberbully Katie Cassidy on social networking sites like Twitter and after she was killed off they all celebrated and rubbed it in people's faces. The worst thing with the showrunners of 'Arrow' is when Katie Cassidy was being cyberbullied they didn't stand up for her and tell the crazy haters to leave her alone like Robert Singer did for her and other actresses when she was on 'Supernatural' and they enabled it and looked like they were supporting it when they killed her off.
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Post by General Kenobi on Apr 15, 2018 12:15:49 GMT
Yeah they were as serious about handling cyberbullying as our First Lady. Who cares about doing the right thing when the fans love you? Disgusting.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2018 12:43:05 GMT
Yeah they were as serious about handling cyberbullying as our First Lady. Who cares about doing the right thing when the fans love you? Disgusting. Cyber stalking and deranged fans and haters like that need to be nipped in the butt and not rewarded like the showrunners of 'Arrow' have done. By rewarding it they just enable it even more and make them worse. When the crazed fans turned on them at the start of Season 5 and abused the writers on Twitter for breaking up Oliver and Felicity and taking Palmer Tech away from Felicity it would have been a wake up call for them 'cause they were the ones receiving the abuse for the first time but they still gave them what they wanted. Back on topic though Katie Cassidy has spoken out about Black Siren being redeemed and she seems to think she is capable of redemption and I still think she is playing Ricardo. 'Arrow's Katie Cassidy on If Black Siren Can Be Redeemed comicbook.com/dc/2018/04/18/arrow-season-6-black-siren-laurel-lance-katie-cassidy/
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Post by General Kenobi on Apr 19, 2018 14:49:37 GMT
I wonder if Black Siren can be redeemed. It might be possible, but she has to make a major leap in the right direction.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 13:45:39 GMT
I wonder if Black Siren can be redeemed. It might be possible, but she has to make a major leap in the right direction. Yeah. It will take a major leap in the right direction for Black Siren to be redeemed and I thought we would have seen something like that by now but at this point we aren't seeing anything and perhaps they aren't going to redeem her after all and they are tricking us and she will be a villain by the end. I don't know but some sites like this one are pointed out the arc has failed and it is not hard to see why they feel that way. Arrow: Black Siren’s Redemption Arc Has Failedscreenrant.com/arrow-black-siren-redemption-failed/
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Post by General Kenobi on Apr 21, 2018 18:12:30 GMT
Jesus Christ! I feel so inadequate. I write a measly one sentence message and you reply with a massive text with paragraphs and links and different colored text. You are the Mistress of the Arrow Board and I am your humble servant.
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Post by dazz on Apr 22, 2018 4:24:56 GMT
Is anyone really surprised by the failed "arc" to redeem Siren as of yet? lets not forget this is Arrow hell it's the Arrowverse the arcs are generally either dragged on too long or they are woefully underdone, and with opposite impacts to their shows than they should have, a 2 episode "arc" will shape the entire show and hold long term meaning going forward, a season long arc however tends to be forgotten about as soon as it's concluded, I mean take Diggle's guilt over Laurel and murdering of Andy in cold blood, that was a multi episode arc over 2 seasons, and now Diggle has forgotten all about it, the only thing that remains is the vague callback to Andy's death being on John some how. The "redemption" arch is in mid flow because we've seen Siren sort of care about Quentin and she wasn't enjoying Diaz's needless violence and mean spiritedness, see she's no longer evil as she doesn't enjoy torture or pain anymore she's practically a hero... ...all that remains is her needing to throw herself in front of a bullet for someone else and hey presto instant hero, just add blood... fucking stupid fuckers, why cant they just fucking get their act together or fuck off, cause if this fucking continues I'm gonna lose my fucking mind, if that happens then I might just gouge their fucking eyes out, skull fuck them and leave em in a fucking ditch...or stop watching the show one of the two.
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