|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 13:45:24 GMT
I read a lot of theists react to strong challenges as being intolerant of religion. But consider this.
Don't we have schools, and mandates to attend them, precisely because we are intolerant of things like not being able to read? Intolerance is not a bad thing if you are being intolerant of something that detracts from education or other factors about society.
So here we have religion, an institution that has a large population who still encourage each other to reject things like evolution and the big bang, which historically subjugated women, which has demonized gays, which has committed massive atrocities in the name of a god, which has contributed to the spread of the aids epidemic in Africa through rejecting condoms, which in the past has burnt "witches", refused to accept that the earth orbited the sun, and which generally lives as though things like prayer do anything and that a universe creating deity guides them.
Yes. I'm intolerant of illiteracy, and of nonsense like that. What's the problem?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:20:38 GMT
I'm tolerant of anyone's religion, as long as it doesn't impact on others...
Eg: A religion taught in schools - no. Awareness of different faiths taught - fine. Sikhs not having to wear motorcycle helmets - fine. People using religion to break anti discrimination laws - no. Using religion, Kosher and Halal, to break animal welfare laws - no.
Everyone's beliefs should be tolerated, except where they cause harm to others.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:45:31 GMT
^^^ This.
I'm tolerant of another person believing in god in exactly the same way that I would be tolerant of them believing that they are Napoleon. Both are nonsensical, but it's no business of mine if other people believe nonsensical things.
But if the Napoleon guy decides to try and, say, take over Europe or advance on Moscow, then that's not something I must or should tolerate. And if the god guy decides to try and, say, insert creationism into schools or fly planes into buildings, then that's not something I must or should tolerate either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 14:59:08 GMT
Catholic here. And ^^This^^
Like anything else, I have problems when anyone pushes their agenda on me or down my throat. I'm fine with them wanting to educate me about their beliefs (if it's me wanting to do the enquiring). I'm fine with people believing what they want provided they harm none, nor impose their will on others.
Things can get dicey when people claim to be practicing the rules of their religion and culture such as sharia.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 15:05:12 GMT
There's nothing stopping a theophobiac from being intolerant of religion.
They just don't have that much power to do anything about it.
Heck, they can't even admit to what they would want to do to the religious, making their intolerance a moot issue.
We have no idea what a theophobiac would do to prove their intolerance to religion.
What would you do Archy?
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on Mar 10, 2017 15:38:57 GMT
"Don't we have schools, and mandates to attend them, precisely because we are intolerant of things like not being able to read?"
Universal literacy is a requirement for any society dedicated to the principle of self-governance. So, education is made mandatory. Successful self-governance also requires a "free marketplace of ideas", and religion is just a part of that marketplace. There's no problem with your intolerance of religion as long as your attempts to stamp it out are confined to that arena. But enlisting the law in your efforts violates our commitment to maintaining that needed marketplace.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 15:50:59 GMT
Everyone's beliefs should be tolerated, except where they cause harm to others. Irrational beliefs shouldn't. I agree, it's only an issue if it impacts others, but the fact is the major religions especially DO IMPACT OTHERS. But I disagree that we should ever stop questioning irrational beliefs as though any and every belief is to be shown respect.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 15:53:16 GMT
I would be tolerant of them believing that they are Napoleon. I wouldn't.
Somebody needs to talk to this. Why would we sit there and not try to help him? The guy is clearly detached from reality, and as you said, the same goes for religious ideas, so specifically related to those, why would we not try to help? We get this idea that tolerance means we should never question things that are irrational because we're afraid of offending somebody. F that.
|
|
|
Post by thefleetsin on Mar 10, 2017 15:53:32 GMT
I read a lot of theists react to strong challenges as being intolerant of religion. But consider this.
Don't we have schools, and mandates to attend them, precisely because we are intolerant of things like not being able to read? Intolerance is not a bad thing if you are being intolerant of something that detracts from education or other factors about society.
So here we have religion, an institution that has a large population who still encourage each other to reject things like evolution and the big bang, which historically subjugated women, which has demonized gays, which has committed massive atrocities in the name of a god, which has contributed to the spread of the aids epidemic in Africa through rejecting condoms, which in the past has burnt "witches", refused to accept that the earth orbited the sun, and which generally lives as though things like prayer do anything and that a universe creating deity guides them.
Yes. I'm intolerant of illiteracy, and of nonsense like that. What's the problem? but but but but our sacred forefathers were endowed by a creator spirit father who said to them... 'dear lord there's a lot of open land here along with these ignorant savages to boot. anyone wanna guess how long it takes for them to see the light?"
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 15:54:25 GMT
I would be tolerant of them believing that they are Napoleon. I wouldn't.
Somebody needs to talk to this. Why would we sit there and not try to help him? The guy is clearly detached from reality, and as you said, the same goes for religious ideas, so specifically related to those, why would we not try to help? We get this idea that tolerance means we should never question things that are irrational because we're afraid of offending somebody. F that.
You have the opportunity to talk us out of it now.
You just suck at it.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 15:57:52 GMT
I'm fine with them wanting to educate me about their beliefs (if it's me wanting to do the enquiring). I agree in principle, but here is the twist. I'm never worried about people questioning any belief I hold, because if I can't rationally justify it, I'll gladly stop believing it. And what you'll find it you do that consistently is that all of your beliefs are based on evidence and strongly supported. If you can't justify an idea, then why would be offended to have it questioned? You should be offended to be believing it, if for no other reason than for self respect.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 15:58:56 GMT
I'm fine with them wanting to educate me about their beliefs (if it's me wanting to do the enquiring). I agree in principle, but here is the twist. I'm never worried about people questioning any belief I hold, because if I can't rationally justify it, I'll gladly stop believing it. And what you'll find it you do that consistently is that all of your beliefs are based on evidence and strongly supported. If you can't justify an idea, then why would be offended to have it questioned? You should be offended to be believing it, if for no other reason than for self respect. I'm pretty sure no one is worried about you.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 15:59:01 GMT
You have the opportunity to talk us out of it now.
You just suck at it.
Do I need to put on kid gloves just for you?
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 16:00:22 GMT
I'd speak out, just like I'm doing now.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 16:00:35 GMT
You have the opportunity to talk us out of it now.
You just suck at it.
Do I need to put on kid gloves just for you? You haven't even tried to do battle me.
Face it.
I'm better than you.
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 16:01:46 GMT
I'd speak out, just like I'm doing now. Like I said, the theophobiac's intolerance is a moot issue considering how impotent it is.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 16:03:25 GMT
"Don't we have schools, and mandates to attend them, precisely because we are intolerant of things like not being able to read?"Universal literacy is a requirement for any society dedicated to the principle of self-governance. So, education is made mandatory. Successful self-governance also requires a "free marketplace of ideas", and religion is just a part of that marketplace. There's no problem with your intolerance of religion as long as your attempts to stamp it out are confined to that arena. But enlisting the law in your efforts violates our commitment to maintaining that needed marketplace. Religion is a part of that marketplace just like alien abduction and big foot are a part of that marketplace.
Just to be clear, I am in no way suggest religion be made illegal.
|
|
|
Post by ArArArchStanton on Mar 10, 2017 16:04:25 GMT
I'd speak out, just like I'm doing now. Like I said, the theophobiac's intolerance is a moot issue considering how impotent it is. And yet atheism has continued to grow and gain acceptance and understanding. Impotent?
|
|
|
Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 10, 2017 16:10:01 GMT
Like I said, the theophobiac's intolerance is a moot issue considering how impotent it is. And yet atheism has continued to grow and gain acceptance and understanding. Impotent? What does that have to do with anything?
Don't clump all atheism into your brand of it because your view of religion is retarded.
However, even if this did boil down to a popularity contest, don't pretend that atheism will be top tier anytime soon.
It thrives in the shadow of religion rather than the absence of it and it primarily does so on the basis personal experience of not being bound by the obligations of any particular doctrine. What a weak reason to adhere to something.
|
|
|
Post by general313 on Mar 10, 2017 16:10:41 GMT
I would be tolerant of them believing that they are Napoleon. I wouldn't.
Somebody needs to talk to this. Why would we sit there and not try to help him? The guy is clearly detached from reality, and as you said, the same goes for religious ideas, so specifically related to those, why would we not try to help? We get this idea that tolerance means we should never question things that are irrational because we're afraid of offending somebody. F that.
Are you thinking personal code of conduct or government policy (laws)?
|
|