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Post by deembastille on Feb 21, 2018 2:23:39 GMT
The Bible most certainly does not endorse the kind of slavery that was American slavery. Exodus 21:16 He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. what makes slavery any more or less American? it started in the zipper that separates iran and Iraq/sudan. in 1860 bfreakingc. and it wasn't just stealing you from your bed. you for the most part had to do something to your 'master' and then had to repay him by becoming his slave. -- like that Jerry episode of Seinfeld. |
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Post by kls on Feb 21, 2018 2:28:10 GMT
The Bible most certainly does not endorse the kind of slavery that was American slavery. Exodus 21:16 He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. what makes slavery any more or less American? it started in the zipper that separates iran and Iraq/sudan. in 1860 bfreakingc. and it wasn't just stealing you from your bed. you for the most part had to do something to your 'master' and then had to repay him by becoming his slave. -- like that Jerry episode of Seinfeld. The paying off a debt type of slavery wasn't forbidden. The kidnapping people and making money off selling them was. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 21, 2018 3:52:58 GMT
Does that make it a belief though if it doesn't? If it doesn't, does that then make the belief that sun WAS going to come up delusional? What if one holds no thought belief, or thinks about something or anything, that then takes it out of the realm of delusion and right into the moment, thought\thinking free. That is true freedom. So not all beliefs are delusional. All thoughts are vengeful, they take one out of the moment. Therefore beliefs are still thoughts and takes one out of the moment. All there is, is the presence in the present. There is no mind, or thought or belief in this space of absolute awareness and clarity. Yes, ALL beliefs are delusional, until they reach beyond the thinking phase. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 21, 2018 4:15:21 GMT
I kind of feel like we're two ships passing in the night at this point. There seems to be a lot of misallocation of ideas here. For instance, you are attributing this sentence - Third, the idea that everyone is playing on the same playing field now is demonstrably false and only shows an ignorance about the socio-economic divide between the African American community and white Americans - to me as if I said it. I didn't. Not even close. Quote: ”so I just want to make sure you realize everyone is on an even playing field”.Thanks for the advice, but in this case it’s a bit misplaced. Nobody here is “whining” and that’s not what this thread is about. That would be a nonsensical (frankly ludicrous) statement even IF I felt that way. But again, it’s a misplaced argument. |
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Post by Toasted Cheese on Feb 21, 2018 5:51:36 GMT
what makes slavery any more or less American? it started in the zipper that separates iran and Iraq/sudan. in 1860 bfreakingc. and it wasn't just stealing you from your bed. you for the most part had to do something to your 'master' and then had to repay him by becoming his slave. -- like that Jerry episode of Seinfeld. The paying off a debt type of slavery wasn't forbidden. The kidnapping people and making money off selling them was. It's unfortunate then, that Christians chose to ignore this and go ahead anyway and create American slavery, and all under the guise of God. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 11:17:15 GMT
Toasted Cheese What does that mean in relation to what I said?Not true. I haven't even discussed my beliefs have I? If I did what did I say? How did they relate to politics? As a Christian, I'm just going to go ahead and forgive you!  I wasn't bemoaning that. None of that affects me (Well, I've been known to boink a time or two...) and yet I am continually accused of trying to hinder it which, amazingly enough, you're doing now. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 11:36:01 GMT
This may be an over simplification, butt their lives on earth were so shit that they were sitting ducks for talk about a paternalistic God caring for them not like their owner and the promise of a better afterlife! Actually a basic search of the interweb indicates that initially some slave owners thought the passages about accepting being a slave would help control their slaves, however the egalitarian message of salvation from Christianity ended up backfiring that a little. Yes, that's what I said just with common sense. However, there is obviously more details then what appears to be the prevailing arguments: 1. Christians as a whole supported slavery as whole since Christians were white and the Bible apparently loves slavery. 2. There was barely any other influence on what made slaves become Christians except that their white masters kept drilling the message that slavery is awesome and that has stuck through all of these years - Not the actual message, not positive aspects, not the choice, but because white dudes forced them to worship which has been handed down to me. 3. This leads to the most absurd...That black people who are Christians are truly stupid not only because the normal accusations of delusion and brainwash, but prove they are the inferior race because they have have been stockholmed into following their white masters...Oh, except the ones who started slavery in America in an interesting twist from the white power crowd. Now these presumptions are so absurd that the only thing back them up are non-researched statements by those who believe it which is wild considering how rational and fact based the people making the statement claim they are. The reality is they are creatures of opinion and the thing I keep forgetting is they are so dumb that they never have any intention on looking up stuff that isn't a picture or a Youtube video. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 11:37:51 GMT
I asked this a long time ago but...
Isn't is far easier to just hate white people for what their ancestors did in distorting the Christian message and encouraging slavery?
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 21, 2018 11:59:41 GMT
tpfkar The Bible most certainly does not endorse the kind of slavery that was American slavery. Exodus 21:16 He that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. But once taken they're strictly legit chattel. 
You may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 15:57:48 GMT
Quote: ”so I just want to make sure you realize everyone is on an even playing field”.Context matters. I was referring to slave owning. My bad. I thought all that talk about those mean, old white slavers enforcing their Christianity on the African Americans was whining. It's worked for us  |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 21, 2018 16:23:31 GMT
Quote: ”so I just want to make sure you realize everyone is on an even playing field”.Context matters. I was referring to slave owning. But I wasn’t; so what was your point? As I pointed out, the issue isn’t that black people are slaves today, or that they owned slaves in the past; those are red-herrings. The issue is that they practice a religion used to justify enslavement of their ancestors, and that is the basis of the question. I know you did, but that’s because you’re so busy DEFENDING and trying to push a narrative instead of actually listening. Again, I must refer you back to my actual question. Asking why black people would practice a religion used to enslave their ancestors is not “whining”, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t care if they choose to do that or not. I simply don’t understand how a rational, educated person could be compelled to do that. It works for a lot of people. But going back to the part of the “equal playing field” that you were NOT talking about, it tends to work more often, easier, and faster for people who are privileged, than it does for those who are at a minority disadvantage. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 16:27:42 GMT
I gotta be honest with you: I don't think there's must time left on the clock for "Christianity" anyway. But sure, I'm aware and my children will be aware. Really? You think Christianity will go away? Why and what do you think will replace it? Judaism will survive, Christianity will not. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 16:31:16 GMT
I know you did, but that’s because you’re so busy DEFENDING and trying to push a narrative instead of actually listening. Again, I must refer you back to my actual question. Asking why black people would practice a religion used to enslave their ancestors is not “whining”, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t care if they choose to do that or not. I simply don’t understand how a rational, educated person could be compelled to do that. And I tried to address your question by saying that Christianity made its way to Africa long before the slave trade. Since when are Hebrews a majority anywhere except Israel? |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 21, 2018 17:30:40 GMT
I know you did, but that’s because you’re so busy DEFENDING and trying to push a narrative instead of actually listening. Again, I must refer you back to my actual question. Asking why black people would practice a religion used to enslave their ancestors is not “whining”, it’s a legitimate question. I don’t care if they choose to do that or not. I simply don’t understand how a rational, educated person could be compelled to do that. And I tried to address your question by saying that By accusing me of whining and deflecting the discussion with irrelevancies like blacks owning slaves too. Which is irrelevant since most African Americans are not descendants of Christian Ethiopians. So try again. Are you white?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 17:34:26 GMT
Which is irrelevant since most African Americans are not descendants of Christian Ethiopians. So try again. Ethiopians were not the only African Christians. So maybe you should try again. Whiter than you, I'd reckon. Not sure why that matters. |
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Post by captainbryce on Feb 21, 2018 17:51:21 GMT
Which is irrelevant since most African Americans are not descendants of Christian Ethiopians. So try again. Ethiopians were not the only African Christians. So maybe you should try again. No, I don’t need to try at all. You’re the one trying to make a case that it was okay for the slave owners to give the African slaves a bible once they got to America, and tell them to submit to their masters because they were already Christian. That’s what you are clearly implying. Therefore YOU now need to try to make a convincing case for why anybody should accept that as fact when there is no evidence of that. Oh I can see that you don’t know why it matters (which is part of the problem in the first place). Nevertheless, your answer in this case matters because it validates my point exactly (even if the reason goes straight over your head). |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 17:54:26 GMT
Ethiopians were not the only African Christians. So maybe you should try again. No, I don’t need to try at all. You’re the one trying to make a case that it was okay for the slave owners to give the African slaves a bible once they got to America, and tell them to submit to their masters because they were already Christian. That’s what you are clearly implying. Therefore YOU now need to try to make a convincing case for why anybody should accept that as fact when there is no evidence of that. You are cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs! Straight over my privileged white head, right? |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2018 19:00:24 GMT
So not all beliefs are delusional. All thoughts are vengeful, they take one out of the moment. Therefore beliefs are still thoughts and takes one out of the moment. All there is, is the presence in the present. There is no mind, or thought or belief in this space of absolute awareness and clarity. Yes, ALL beliefs are delusional, until they reach beyond the thinking phase. I am actually quite heartened by what you wrote. Thanks. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2018 19:01:36 GMT
Really? You think Christianity will go away? Why and what do you think will replace it? Judaism will survive, Christianity will not. Hmm, interesting, but you did not answer why? also in light of that why are you a Christian? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:39:11 GMT
Judaism will survive, Christianity will not. Hmm, interesting, but you did not answer why? also in light of that why are you a Christian? The reason why is because: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven The Age of Grace is God dealing with all of humanity through the adoptive process exhibited by "the church." Eventually, God will stop dealing with all of humanity and once again begin dealing exclusively with the Jews. Why am I Christian? Because I do not live in that future time. I live now, during the Age of Grace. Therefore, my path is the cross, for it is the only path allowed to humanity during this age. |
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