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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2018 19:43:35 GMT
Hmm, interesting, but you did not answer why? also in light of that why are you a Christian? The reason why is because: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven The Age of Grace is God dealing with all of humanity through the adoptive process exhibited by "the church." Eventually, God will stop dealing with all of humanity and once again begin dealing exclusively with the Jews. Why am I Christian? Because I do not live in that future time. I live now, during the Age of Grace. Therefore, my path is the cross, for it is the only path allowed to humanity during this age. What makes you say that, does that not go against the message of Jesus? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 19:47:53 GMT
The reason why is because: To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven The Age of Grace is God dealing with all of humanity through the adoptive process exhibited by "the church." Eventually, God will stop dealing with all of humanity and once again begin dealing exclusively with the Jews. Why am I Christian? Because I do not live in that future time. I live now, during the Age of Grace. Therefore, my path is the cross, for it is the only path allowed to humanity during this age. What makes you say that, does that not go against the message of Jesus? Scripture makes me say that, and, no, it goes with his message. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2018 19:54:20 GMT
What makes you say that, does that not go against the message of Jesus? Scripture makes me say that, and, no, it goes with his message. can you please quote the specific scripture that makes you say God will begin dealing exclusively with the Jews and also how Jesus message (which I was pretty sure was salvation for all and radical acceptance) would go with this. Please do not be vague, be specific and back it up with scripture. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:01:30 GMT
Scripture makes me say that, and, no, it goes with his message. can you please quote the specific scripture that makes you say God will begin dealing exclusively with the Jews and also how Jesus message (which I was pretty sure was salvation for all and radical acceptance) would go with this. Please do not be vague, be specific and back it up with scripture. I'll quote scripture here, but it won't help you much if you haven't read the entire Bible and if you don't understand the entire Bible, because there are dozens and dozens of passages that build to this conclusion. But here is the scripture that most directly answers your question: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. |
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 21, 2018 20:03:39 GMT
tpfkar Not sure I follow you, there may be an even playing field in terms of everyone in every culture has at some time owned slaves, but really the slave owners are not victims, surely the experience and victimization of the slaves themselves is the real issue? Of course I agree with your last phrase. My point is that to blame white slave owners for the victimization of black slaves is myopic, since, you know, there were American slave owners who were black (not to mention other ethnicities). And then in a broader context, all ethnicities have been victimized in the past by slavery. I don't get "whites" defending white slave owners. When you're "white" and haven't consistently felt the boot because of your "whiteness", "white identity" seems absurd. There's just people.
It is appalling that the most segregated hour of Christian America is eleven o’clock on Sunday morning. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:08:13 GMT
tpfkar Of course I agree with your last phrase. My point is that to blame white slave owners for the victimization of black slaves is myopic, since, you know, there were American slave owners who were black (not to mention other ethnicities). And then in a broader context, all ethnicities have been victimized in the past by slavery. I don't get "whites" defending white slave owners. When you're "white" and haven't consistently felt the boot because of your "whiteness", "white identity" seems absurd. There's just people.
It is appalling that the most segregated hour of Christian America is eleven o’clock on Sunday morning.That's how I see the world. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 20:09:24 GMT
Great, this has turned into literal interpretations of Revelation.
The mention of 144,000 has probably triggered isapop's Spidey sense...
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 21, 2018 20:11:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:21:42 GMT
Sure I would. I'm not interested in discussing race at all. I like things like competency, work ethic, talent, and attitude driving the discussion on what is what in society, not gender, race or religion. But if race is going to be discussed, I prefer that no race be unfairly stereotyped. Including those mean old whites who owned slaves like all the mean old blacks and mean old Hebrews and mean old Arabs who came before them and were slave owners. |
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 21, 2018 20:26:03 GMT
tpfkar Sure I would. I'm not interested in discussing race at all. I like things like competency, work ethic, talent, and attitude driving the discussion on what is what in society, not gender, race or religion. But if race is going to be discussed, I prefer that no race be unfairly stereotyped. Including those mean old whites who owned slaves like all the mean old blacks and mean old Hebrews and mean old Arabs who came before them and were slave owners. I know, you've nonsensically got to dump inane "cover". 
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:28:55 GMT
tpfkar Sure I would. I'm not interested in discussing race at all. I like things like competency, work ethic, talent, and attitude driving the discussion on what is what in society, not gender, race or religion. But if race is going to be discussed, I prefer that no race be unfairly stereotyped. Including those mean old whites who owned slaves like all the mean old blacks and mean old Hebrews and mean old Arabs who came before them and were slave owners. I know, you've nonsensically got to dump inane "cover".
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.Total gibberish. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:30:38 GMT
Great, this has turned into literal interpretations of Revelation. The mention of 144,000 has probably triggered isapop's Spidey sense... If you don't like it, don't let the tail of the dragon slap ya' on your way out of heaven.  |
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Post by cupcakes on Feb 21, 2018 20:31:44 GMT
tpfkar I know, you've nonsensically got to dump inane "cover".
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.Total gibberish. At least you recognize the ineptness of your line at times. 
babble, babble toil and trabble. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 20:36:48 GMT
Great, this has turned into literal interpretations of Revelation. The mention of 144,000 has probably triggered isapop's Spidey sense... If you don't like it, don't let the tail of the dragon slap ya' on your way out of heaven. If we're discussing revelation, the dragon ain't in heaven. |
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Post by gadreel on Feb 21, 2018 20:46:49 GMT
can you please quote the specific scripture that makes you say God will begin dealing exclusively with the Jews and also how Jesus message (which I was pretty sure was salvation for all and radical acceptance) would go with this. Please do not be vague, be specific and back it up with scripture. I'll quote scripture here, but it won't help you much if you haven't read the entire Bible and if you don't understand the entire Bible, because there are dozens and dozens of passages that build to this conclusion. But here is the scripture that most directly answers your question: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. ok so that presumes that revelation is actually a prophesy and not a recounting of the fall of the first temple. and wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/jesus-vs-paul-1-salvation-for-jews-only/ |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:49:18 GMT
If you don't like it, don't let the tail of the dragon slap ya' on your way out of heaven. If we're discussing revelation, the dragon ain't in heaven. That's not what Revelation says: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 20:52:54 GMT
I'll quote scripture here, but it won't help you much if you haven't read the entire Bible and if you don't understand the entire Bible, because there are dozens and dozens of passages that build to this conclusion. But here is the scripture that most directly answers your question: And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. ok so that presumes that revelation is actually a prophesy and not a recounting of the fall of the first temple. Part of the problem is this boxing in of Revelation like it has to be one or the other. Revelation is a book of history, current events, near future events and far future events. Sorry, I'm not reading all that. If you have a point, I'll listen to it, though. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 21:00:53 GMT
If we're discussing revelation, the dragon ain't in heaven. That's not what Revelation says: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels Same chapter: |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2018 21:09:14 GMT
That's not what Revelation says: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels Same chapter: Precisely! He was in heaven and then was cast out of heaven. More specifically , the Book of Revelation, a.k.a., The Revelation of Jesus Christ, contains an historic account of when the dragon was in heaven, thus, "in Revelation," the "dragon is in heaven." |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Feb 21, 2018 21:11:57 GMT
Precisely! He was in heaven and then was cast out of heaven. More specifically , the Book of Revelation, a.k.a., The Revelation of Jesus Christ, contains an historic account of when the dragon was in heaven, thus, "in Revelation," the "dragon is in heaven." That's fine, but you said it was going to smack me if I went to heaven so there may be a timeline issue which is to be expected when discussing revelation. |
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