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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 5:28:52 GMT
Which made no sense at all. If Killmonger wanted to use Klaue's dead body as a ticket into Wakanda, then why not just kill Klaue after they came out of the museum? To see if he was any further use. The failed arms negotiation proved he wasn't. Killmonger isn't a DC villain, he thinks about things. You really don't get how the world works, do you? In real life, the CIA most definitely would question someone like Klaue before letting anyone else do so. That's a tad flimsy. Killmonger doesn't need the money from the sale. He only wants to go into Wakanda. And prove himself. I would say to get the location of Wakanda out of him and once he did he kills him, but it's not. I hate agreeing with the resident troll. I will have to watch it again to figure that out.
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Post by Nicko's Nose on Feb 19, 2018 5:30:34 GMT
He can’t be worse than Steppenwolf.
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Post by blockbusted on Feb 19, 2018 5:40:02 GMT
He can’t be worse than Steppenwolf. Or Tinfoil Doom...
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 6:30:43 GMT
Which made no sense at all. If Killmonger wanted to use Klaue's dead body as a ticket into Wakanda, then why not just kill Klaue after they came out of the museum? Why wait for Klaue to go all the way to Korea to sell the weapons and get arrested and have to break Klaue out of a holding cell before killing Klaue? And why the fuck were a CIA agent (basically an American spy) and a Wakandan even questioning Klaue when Klaue was arrested in Korea? Just really bad writing in Black Panther. You know what? Only seeing it the one time, I can't think of reason why Killmonger didn't kill Klaue sooner. Klaue is the only person to escape, but I don't remember Klaue giving up the information. Killmonger had the map from his dad anyways. Congratulations that's actually a plothole for me now. The Korea questioning is easy. They asked to interrogate him. We are on good terms with S, Korea. Not all CIA agents are spooks. Not all CIA actions are done without permission. By that I mean CIA could've gotten permission of the Korean government to run the sting. I would say this is a nitpick as they didn't show it happening, but I'm big enough guy to admit when other people are right. The movie makes it abundantly clear that Erik and Ulysses have been collaborating for some time. The museum job was a heist - they did it for money. Erik researched and planned it, Ulysses was the muscle, and he also lined up the buyer. Eric likely intended to kill Ulysses after he sold the artifact but, Ulysses was captured and detained by the CIA in South Korea. Erik proceeded to exfiltrate Ulysses but, with no money and no object, he was of no further use to him thus allowing him to enact his master plan to kill him and use his apprehension/murder as a token of good will to go before the Wakandan council. The rest is just white noise and rambling from a someone who has no idea how the US clandestine services operate or what the current state of relations is between South Korea and the US (hint; South Korea is one of the most pro-US nations in the world).
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 6:33:31 GMT
To see if he was any further use. The failed arms negotiation proved he wasn't. Killmonger isn't a DC villain, he thinks about things. You really don't get how the world works, do you? In real life, the CIA most definitely would question someone like Klaue before letting anyone else do so. That's a tad flimsy. Killmonger doesn't need the money from the sale. He only wants to go into Wakanda. And prove himself. I would say to get the location of Wakanda out of him and once he did he kills him, but it's not. I hate agreeing with the resident troll. I will have to watch it again to figure that out. Why wouldn't he? Is he somehow independently wealthy? A spec-ops soldier with no country could always use a payday and that's what the museum heist was for.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Feb 19, 2018 6:35:56 GMT
Not even close, he's one of the best villains in a superhero movie, and certainly better than Steppenwolf and Ares I'll tell you that.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 6:40:39 GMT
That's a tad flimsy. Killmonger doesn't need the money from the sale. He only wants to go into Wakanda. And prove himself. I would say to get the location of Wakanda out of him and once he did he kills him, but it's not. I hate agreeing with the resident troll. I will have to watch it again to figure that out. Why wouldn't he? Is he somehow independently wealthy? A spec-ops soldier with no country could always use a payday and that's what the museum heist was for. His plan was to overthrow BP and take his throne by ritual combat. If he succeeds he his a king and doesn't need the money. If he loses he isn't the type of person who would submit. So he dies. And you don't need money after your dead. I really liked the movie it's just this one thing. if you can answer that do it because I don't want this.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 6:49:03 GMT
Why wouldn't he? Is he somehow independently wealthy? A spec-ops soldier with no country could always use a payday and that's what the museum heist was for. His plan was to overthrow BP and take his throne by ritual combat. If he succeeds he his a king and doesn't need the money. If he loses he isn't the type of person who would submit. So he dies. And you don't need money after your dead. I really liked the movie it's just this one thing. if you can answer that do it because I don't want this. It was Ulysses failure to sell the artifact that forced Erik's hand. They'd have continued to work together as they had in the past had the sale gone through. Erik planned to kill Ulysses after his usefulness came to an end. He was no longer any good to him as a bank after S. Korea so... It's basic tradecraft for anyone in the intelligence/black ops community.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 6:49:42 GMT
If he submits it would be out of character, but if he did I don't think BP would let him go. If BP let him go would be the only reason he would need money.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 6:53:54 GMT
If he submits it would be out of character, but if he did I don't think BP would let him go. If BP let him go would be the only reason he would need money. The idea that he somehow didn't need money isn't plausible. Their crew - likely full of SOCOM-level operators - isn't a charity. It takes money to get from one place to another in the world with planes, weapons and personnel. And I doubt he booked commercial for his flight from London to Wakanda.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 6:55:47 GMT
His plan was to overthrow BP and take his throne by ritual combat. If he succeeds he his a king and doesn't need the money. If he loses he isn't the type of person who would submit. So he dies. And you don't need money after your dead. I really liked the movie it's just this one thing. if you can answer that do it because I don't want this. It was Ulysses failure to sell the artifact that forced Erik's hand. They'd have continued to work together as they had in the past had the sale gone through. Erik planned to kill Ulysses after his usefulness came to an end. He was no longer any good to him as a bank after S. Korea so... It's basic tradecraft for anyone in the intelligence/black ops community. this is the part I'm having problems with. Why would this force his hand? Did the CIA see Erik so he had to enact his plan beforehand. Or would Klaue would give him up?
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 6:59:00 GMT
Also he didn't get the money from the sale. And didn't need the money to get to Wakanda after he killed him. So the sale wasn't integral part of his plan it seems.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 7:02:55 GMT
It was Ulysses failure to sell the artifact that forced Erik's hand. They'd have continued to work together as they had in the past had the sale gone through. Erik planned to kill Ulysses after his usefulness came to an end. He was no longer any good to him as a bank after S. Korea so... It's basic tradecraft for anyone in the intelligence/black ops community. this is the part I'm having problems did. Why would this force his hand? Did the CIA see Erik so he had to enact his plan beforehand. Or would Klaue would give him up? Any number of eventualities could have taken place after Ulysses was captured but, the big issue is that he was burned as an asset so Erik didn't need him anymore. He was now far more valuable to him dead. Up until that point Erik and Ulysses where essentially mercenaries for profit. All the while, Erik was likely milking Ulysses for any intel on Wakanda he could get besides what he already knew from his father. The botched sale forced him to expedite his plan.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 7:07:13 GMT
Still think that's a tad flimsy, but if I only have one problem with a movie I call it a success.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 7:07:21 GMT
Also he didn't get the money from the sale. And didn't need the money to get to Wakanda after he killed him. So the sale wasn't integral part of his plan it seems. He did need Ulysses' transport - namely the plane they'd planned to use for their mutual escape. I doubt he flew that small plane from S. Korea directly to Wakanda. He would have had to have switched transports at some point which would have required planning and money.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 7:14:51 GMT
I was planning to go a second time this week. I like to see a movie twice before I am firm on my opinion of it. I doubt I will lower my opinion because of one flaw that could be explained. Or maybe it will.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Feb 19, 2018 7:19:18 GMT
I was planning to go a second time this week. I like to see a movie twice before I am firm on my opinion of it. I doubt I will lower my opinion because of one flaw that could be explained. Or maybe it will. I've seen it twice. I've discovered two more potential minor plot holes. I'll need a third viewing to confirm.
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Post by DC-Fan on Feb 19, 2018 7:21:28 GMT
If he submits it would be out of character, but if he did I don't think BP would let him go. If BP let him go would be the only reason he would need money. The idea that he somehow didn't need money isn't plausible. Killmonger's plan was to use Klaue's dead body as his ticket to Wakanda and challenge T'Challa for the throne. If Killmonger wins the throne, he's the King so he has all the wealth he needs. So the excuse that Killmonger needed money isn't plausible. This is just really bad writing in Black Panther.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 7:22:14 GMT
I was planning to go a second time this week. I like to see a movie twice before I am firm on my opinion of it. I doubt I will lower my opinion because of one flaw that could be explained. Or maybe it will. I've seen it twice. I've discovered two more potential minor plot holes. I'll need a third viewing to confirm. I would ask what they were, but I want to go in my second viewing kind of clean.
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Post by Vassaggo on Feb 19, 2018 7:39:34 GMT
I am treating it right now like I did The Dark Knight Rises. One shot he is in the desert just after climbing out the pit. Next he is in Gotham. How did he get back so soon. Was it days later? Yeah the answer to anything is. "Because he's Batman" I would've like some exposition in both scenes. So both have reasons it's just I don't particularly like them. I forgave that bit of TDKR. I can with BP.
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