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Post by lenlenlen1 on Mar 19, 2018 14:44:12 GMT
OK, lets say that this was true I personally still wouldn't care because...
A) I enjoy BOTH Marvel and DC, so as far as I'm concerned its the best time ever for movies and TV shows for fans of superheroes and comicbooks B) IMO DC STILL has the best comic book movies ever in Superman the Motion Picture and The Dark Knight. and C) WHY does this even matter? Why does it make anyone feel better that one is better than the other? How does it really matter?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2018 14:47:25 GMT
I only know one thing and that is that the animated series Justice League\Justice League Unlimited 2001-2006 is far better than The Avengers
I have not seen the Justice League movie so i have no idea if that one is better or worse.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 19, 2018 16:04:31 GMT
OK, lets say that this was true I personally still wouldn't care because...
A) I enjoy BOTH Marvel and DC, so as far as I'm concerned its the best time ever for movies and TV shows for fans of superheroes and comicbooks B) IMO DC STILL has the best comic book movies ever in Superman the Motion Picture and The Dark Knight. and C) WHY does this even matter? Why does it make anyone feel better that one is better than the other? How does it really matter?
You'll forgive the divisive nature of the post, lenlenlen1. This piece doesn't necessarily reflect my personal feelings. I posted this article in the hopes of sparking lively conversation. The Justice League is renowned for being the more powerful team and is frequently cited as the de facto winners of any contest the two groups would enter on or off the panel. This article has a slightly different spin on that idea. I do believe that people can like Marvel and DC at the same time (as I do). That said, I also believe that people tend to have more of an affinity for one or the other if they're honest with themselves. I admit to DC's superiority in many categories and at many times during their publication and cinematic history - Superman The Movie is one of many such notable examples. Putting aside the distinguished competition's innumerable achievements for the moment, I am obliged to report that I'm a "true believer," first. I grew up with Marvel Comics from an early age. The characters, settings, and stories spoke to me in a way that DC Comic Books didn't. The square-jawed Chuck Yeager analog that is Hal Jordan's Green Lantern didn't resonate with me as much as an awkward kid from NY who was struggling to balance school, work, girls and superpowers all at the same time. So yes, you can be a fan of both, but, you shouldn't do so for the sake of sparing others feelings or trying to maintain some tenuous peace between warring fan factions. I don't feel "better" or superior because of Marvel's current standing. They're not perfect by any means. I am, however, very proud that they've managed to adapt so many of the characters I grew up with to the big screen for the entire world to enjoy the way I did. What the competition does with their library is of little concern to me.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 19, 2018 16:15:22 GMT
It is crazy that a team made up of a combination of C, B and one A (Hulk) characters manage to make more money than a team of 5 A and 1 B characters.
It's a fucking weird timeline we live in.
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 19, 2018 18:07:38 GMT
It is crazy that a team made up of a combination of C, B and one A (Hulk) characters manage to make more money than a team of 5 A and 1 B characters. It's a fucking weird timeline we live in. I wouldn't even call Hulk an A-list character. I say he's a high B. He's very recognizable but he doesn't have the number of shows, cartoons and movies that characters like Superman, Batman and Spiderman have to make him an A-list character.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 18:59:25 GMT
The Dark Knight is overrated. It isn't even the best in the trilogy. BB > TDK > TDKR Agreed. Any time Ledger isn't onscreen in TDK, it becomes very boring. And when he is onscreen, all other characters turn into morons so the Joker can outsmart everyone. That's bad writing.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:00:33 GMT
DC still has the best cartoons. I don’t think anyone is going to seriously argue against that. That's not saying much. I tried watching some of those animated movies and they are all pretty bad compared to theatrical movies. If you put one of them into live action shot for shot it would get a 5% RT score.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:06:55 GMT
When there was little to no competition and people didn't know any better. Wow, what an achievement. There was plenty of competition. Iron Man came out a couple months and was also considered one of the best at the time before The Dark Knight came out. The Dark Knight is in a league of its own, there's nothing that competes with it. Of course, it was a phenomenal movie and it was received appropriately. Just like how other phenomenal movies like Indiana Jones, Aliens, Terminator 2, Star Wars etc were thought highly of at the time and still are now. The Dark Knight will always be considered a phenomenal movie. And every single time a really good Superhero movie comes out it is always without fail compared to The Dark Knight. "Is X movie better than The Dark Knight?" No it isn't, so the same thing happens again and again. It won't change, they'll never make a Superhero movie as good as it ever again. They've made dozens since it's released and not a single one has even come remotely close.That last statement is why it's hard to take TDK fans serious. They've already decided that all future movies will never be as good as TDK. As if there is such a thing as "better" in movies. It doesn't exist. And Black Panther has a much higher Metacritic score than TDK (88 to 82). So you can't really say that TDK is the highest rated superhero movie of all time, not when 2 out of the 3 most common metrics in rating movies rules in Black Panther's direction (RT% + Metacritic score vs. RT av. rating). The metacritic rating is worthless. It only even has 39 reviews for The Dark Knight. Rotten Tomatoes has 326 reviews so that's why you have to base it on. The IMDb are generally pretty accurate and they all have their troll scores. Just from the amount of votes The Dark Knight it would obviously have more. Even if Black Panther didn't have troll posts it wouldn't be rated nearly as high anyway because it's nowhere near as good. Great example of how we reject anything that doesn't support our view of "better" in art while of course eagerly embracing anything that agrees with our view. Now that BP has passed TDK in so many measurements (including blowing it away at the box office where the public really votes), TDK fans will have to get really creative to find some small little corner where TDK still comes out on top. BP is the new king of this fake "best". T'Challa wears the crown now even if the crown never actually existed in the first place.
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:09:08 GMT
yeah, you missed it completely, these are good lists but irrelavant for public perception - obviously, I was talking about the infamous ImdB Top 250 list that is quoted on streaming services & sites and people believe to be an objective barometer of quality. The votings there go into millions and the voting are protected against manipulation by a special logarithm. www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_mv_250_6
Oh...that list where 7 Nolan films make the top 120 movies ever made? Yeah...no fanboy element there. TDK didn't even make the top 5 movies the year it was released. Nolan fans were reduced to complaining that there should be more than 5 Best Picture noms so TDK maybe could have gotten one. (We still don't know if TDK would have been considered a top 10 movie either)
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Post by Skaathar on Mar 19, 2018 19:29:12 GMT
The Dark Knight is overrated. It isn't even the best in the trilogy. BB > TDK > TDKR Agreed. Any time Ledger isn't onscreen in TDK, it becomes very boring. And when he is onscreen, all other characters turn into morons so the Joker can outsmart everyone. That's bad writing. It's also completely dumb how Batman had some difficulty with Joker in a h2h fight. Whatever happened to Batman being a master martial artist with a bulletproof armor?
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 19, 2018 19:47:55 GMT
Agreed. Any time Ledger isn't onscreen in TDK, it becomes very boring. And when he is onscreen, all other characters turn into morons so the Joker can outsmart everyone. That's bad writing. It's also completely dumb how Batman had some difficulty with Joker in a h2h fight. Whatever happened to Batman being a master martial artist with a bulletproof armor? Nolan happened. Worst fighting scenes ever.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 20, 2018 10:18:21 GMT
yeah, you missed it completely, these are good lists but irrelavant for public perception - obviously, I was talking about the infamous ImdB Top 250 list that is quoted on streaming services & sites and people believe to be an objective barometer of quality. The votings there go into millions and the voting are protected against manipulation by a special logarithm. www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_mv_250_6
Oh...that list where 7 Nolan films make the top 120 movies ever made? Yeah...no fanboy element there. TDK didn't even make the top 5 movies the year it was released. Nolan fans were reduced to complaining that there should be more than 5 Best Picture noms so TDK maybe could have gotten one. (We still don't know if TDK would have been considered a top 10 movie either) I used to think like you bro, but I have given up on my Nolan hatred.
The man is just too powerful and revered. His Dark Knight films will be considered the crowning achievement of CBMs when MCU and DCEU will only be loathed as a trivialized generations' aftertbirth of Nolan's genius.
Just accept it, Nolan is bigger than Jesus, and the holy ghost and the big-one put together. Life becomes easier when you do.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Mar 20, 2018 10:28:29 GMT
Oh...that list where 7 Nolan films make the top 120 movies ever made? Yeah...no fanboy element there. TDK didn't even make the top 5 movies the year it was released. Nolan fans were reduced to complaining that there should be more than 5 Best Picture noms so TDK maybe could have gotten one. (We still don't know if TDK would have been considered a top 10 movie either) I used to think like you bro, but I have given up on my Nolan hatred.
The man is just too powerful and revered. His Dark Knight films will be considered the crowning achievement of CBMs when MCU and DCEU will only be loathed as a trivialized generations' aftertbirth of Nolan's genius.
Just accept it, Nolan is bigger than Jesus, and the holy ghost and the big-one put together. Life becomes easier when you do.
Exactly! Join us over the church of Nolan! We will welcome you with our arms wide open and unlike other religions, we don't molest children!
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 20, 2018 17:22:36 GMT
Oh...that list where 7 Nolan films make the top 120 movies ever made? Yeah...no fanboy element there. TDK didn't even make the top 5 movies the year it was released. Nolan fans were reduced to complaining that there should be more than 5 Best Picture noms so TDK maybe could have gotten one. (We still don't know if TDK would have been considered a top 10 movie either) I used to think like you bro, but I have given up on my Nolan hatred.
The man is just too powerful and revered. His Dark Knight films will be considered the crowning achievement of CBMs when MCU and DCEU will only be loathed as a trivialized generations' aftertbirth of Nolan's genius.
Just accept it, Nolan is bigger than Jesus, and the holy ghost and the big-one put together. Life becomes easier when you do.
I think Nolan greatly benefited from the rise of Marvel. Those predisposed to dislike Marvel cling to Nolan like a wet bed sheet and it only gets more clingy over time as Marvel continues to excel. Now it's spilling over into good old days syndrome as 2008 gets further into the past. For the Batman fan, reality hasn't been kind. In 2008, TDK was supposed to pave the way for the future of CB films and change the genre. Instead, the movie that Batfans laughed at in 2008...Iron Man...was the one that paved the way to the future of CB films and changed the genre. The TDK model has been a big failure when it's been tried. Poor WB thought they could try it with Superman and that was a disaster. It got so bad that WB brought in the Marvel director to help patch things up with JL. And now we've got BP blowing away all of TDK's fake critical achievements which were bragging touchstones for so long. At least now when I point out that all those critical awards were worthless I'll have a good example of why that is so. Now TDK fans will believe it.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Mar 20, 2018 17:57:03 GMT
I used to think like you bro, but I have given up on my Nolan hatred.
The man is just too powerful and revered. His Dark Knight films will be considered the crowning achievement of CBMs when MCU and DCEU will only be loathed as a trivialized generations' aftertbirth of Nolan's genius.
Just accept it, Nolan is bigger than Jesus, and the holy ghost and the big-one put together. Life becomes easier when you do.
I think Nolan greatly benefited from the rise of Marvel. Those predisposed to dislike Marvel cling to Nolan like a wet bed sheet and it only gets more clingy over time as Marvel continues to excel. Now it's spilling over into good old days syndrome as 2008 gets further into the past. For the Batman fan, reality hasn't been kind. In 2008, TDK was supposed to pave the way for the future of CB films and change the genre. Instead, the movie that Batfans laughed at in 2008...Iron Man...was the one that paved the way to the future of CB films and changed the genre. The TDK model has been a big failure when it's been tried. Poor WB thought they could try it with Superman and that was a disaster. It got so bad that WB brought in the Marvel director to help patch things up with JL. And now we've got BP blowing away all of TDK's fake critical achievements which were bragging touchstones for so long. At least now when I point out that all those critical awards were worthless I'll have a good example of why that is so. Now TDK fans will believe it. if it helps you sleep at night, pal. You MCU fanboys are crying about Nolan like Thor when getting a haircut.
Console yourself, MCU is famous for it's huge turds. But I urgently advise you to learn the difference between quantity and quality. Real art and arstistic achievemnt cannot be formulaic, regurgitated and dumbed down junk food like MCU, this is why Nolan left. Even the oft-maligned DCEU films have won Oscars and awards completely unlike MCU (WW has won 16 so far including Critic's choice award beating all MCU).
That says it all, some fancy raccoon turd some fancy Nolan. Mahlzeit, pal!
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Post by harpospoke on Mar 20, 2018 20:11:10 GMT
I think Nolan greatly benefited from the rise of Marvel. Those predisposed to dislike Marvel cling to Nolan like a wet bed sheet and it only gets more clingy over time as Marvel continues to excel. Now it's spilling over into good old days syndrome as 2008 gets further into the past. For the Batman fan, reality hasn't been kind. In 2008, TDK was supposed to pave the way for the future of CB films and change the genre. Instead, the movie that Batfans laughed at in 2008...Iron Man...was the one that paved the way to the future of CB films and changed the genre. The TDK model has been a big failure when it's been tried. Poor WB thought they could try it with Superman and that was a disaster. It got so bad that WB brought in the Marvel director to help patch things up with JL. And now we've got BP blowing away all of TDK's fake critical achievements which were bragging touchstones for so long. At least now when I point out that all those critical awards were worthless I'll have a good example of why that is so. Now TDK fans will believe it. if it helps you sleep at night, pal. You MCU fanboys are crying about Nolan like Thor when getting a haircut.
Console yourself, MCU is famous for it's huge turds. But I urgently advise you to learn the difference between quantity and quality. Real art and arstistic achievemnt cannot be formulaic, regurgitated and dumbed down junk food like MCU, this is why Nolan left. Even the oft-maligned DCEU films have won Oscars and awards completely unlike MCU (WW has won 16 so far including Critic's choice award beating all MCU).
That says it all, some fancy raccoon turd some fancy Nolan. Mahlzeit, pal!
There seems to be a disconnect. Pointing out that TDK utterly failed to become the model for the CB genre while IM did that very thing is "crying"? It's just a fact. That happened. And if you believe "MCU is famous for it's huge turds" I'm not sure what planet you are from. They are actually in the midst of an unprecedented string of critical and audience successes. I thought Pixar was impressive with their 11 in a row. Marvel has blown them out of the water. None of that is debatable. It's just what has happened over the past 10 years. "Real art and artistic achievement" cannot be measure period. That's been the secret joke about these "awards" since the beginning. It's not possible to say which art is "better". Art is 100% subjective. You believe this too when you need to believe it. All it takes is for the critics to dislike a movie you like or the critics to like a movie you dislike. You don't line up your favorite movies in order of their critical approval any more than anyone else does. I'm sure you believed TDK was the best movie of 2008...but the Academy didn't think it broke into the top 5. Still think the Academy proves something or will you only use them when it's convenient?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 20, 2018 21:00:07 GMT
Console yourself, MCU is famous for Being unashamed, unpretentious and always taking the hard way. As opposed to Nolan, who took the lazy way out. We already have, and the MCU has done that at the same time as having an unbroken success streak. The only "formula" the MCU has is that it gets its movies done on-schedule, on time, don't hire Diva Directors, they don't go overbudget, etc.
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