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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 14, 2018 3:03:07 GMT
If you don't like using your brain. I do, but not if it means hearing irrelevant banal dialogue. The MCU goes for naturalistic dialog instead of pretentious dialog like we'd get from Fox and DCEU.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 14, 2018 5:45:54 GMT
The MCU goes for naturalistic dialog instead of pretentious dialog like we'd get from Fox and DCEU. If I want naturalistic I would listen to people standing outside a Starbucks. I expect OVER THE TOP AND GRANDIOSE ADVENTURE from a superhero movie.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 14, 2018 6:43:01 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". That would've been the 1st question that a true soldier would've asked. But Rogers didn't give a shit a WWII. Rogers joined the Army only because the other soldiers got the girls so Rogers wanted to be a soldier so he could get girls too. And that's why Rogers' 1st reaction upon hearing Fury tell him that he had been asleep for 70 years was that he wouldn't get to screw Peggy Carter.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 14, 2018 6:45:47 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? So basically you think Cap belongs in Guantanamo Bay. Steve Rogers definitely belongs in a prison for being an accessory to murder after the fact, since he knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to flee from the law.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 14, 2018 9:16:30 GMT
Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". To be fair when he was frozen Bo Jangles was likely the most well known black celebrity he would have known. Nick Fury should have eased him into the new era by shuffling up to him with a Shirley Temple lookalike and they could explain what he missed in song and dance.
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Post by merh on Mar 14, 2018 10:41:28 GMT
You do not get the character
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Post by merh on Mar 14, 2018 10:46:32 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". That would've been the 1st question that a true soldier would've asked. But Rogers didn't give a shit a WWII. Rogers joined the Army only because the other soldiers got the girls so Rogers wanted to be a soldier so he could get girls too. And that's why Rogers' 1st reaction upon hearing Fury tell him that he had been asleep for 70 years was that he wouldn't get to screw Peggy Carter. Gee, you think Times Square being recognizable with the signs basically in English meaning it pretty much resembled America mesns the US won? And damn, yeah, when one first wakes up after a long, deep sleep, one vsn be focused on whatever dreams one had. Steve probably did dream of the last person he was speaking with
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 14, 2018 12:32:53 GMT
The MCU goes for naturalistic dialog instead of pretentious dialog like we'd get from Fox and DCEU. If I want naturalistic I would listen to people standing outside a Starbucks. I expect OVER THE TOP AND GRANDIOSE ADVENTURE from a superhero movie. Backwards thinking.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 14, 2018 12:33:25 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". That would've been the 1st question that a true soldier would've asked. But Rogers didn't give a shit a WWII. Rogers joined the Army only because the other soldiers got the girls so Rogers wanted to be a soldier so he could get girls too. And that's why Rogers' 1st reaction upon hearing Fury tell him that he had been asleep for 70 years was that he wouldn't get to screw Peggy Carter. Superman's worse, he was ready to kill the Justice League and only stopped because he wanted to do Lois.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 14, 2018 12:33:45 GMT
So basically you think Cap belongs in Guantanamo Bay. Steve Rogers definitely belongs in a prison for being an accessory to murder after the fact, since he knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to flee from the law. Batman does this all the time, no one minds there.
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Post by sostie on Mar 14, 2018 12:49:28 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". That would've been the 1st question that a true soldier would've asked. Please enlighten us with any experiences you personally have had as a "true soldier" that has you so well informed....let alone one that was asleep for 70 years. Or are we being regaled with more of your "accurate" insights such as the Magic Boat, Wonder Woman's Oscar nominations and Black Panther flopping in China. Been a bad few months eh? Beginning to show with your reduced posting and unhinged comments. No longer are you a laughable counter to MCU fans...you are just now, laughable.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 13:38:33 GMT
Why the quoted text then? It's a direct shot at the US's involvement in World War II. Actually, that's a shot at Tony not the U.S.'s involvement in WWII. Those are his father's pens that signed a Bill that helped with the war. His son is giving them to Rogers to sign something that could lead them to war. Which the moment does. This? “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.”
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 13:40:50 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? So basically you think Cap belongs in Guantanamo Bay. I don't like you. You add no value to this conversation or the board. You never contribute to the topic at hand. I like to laugh, but your never serious and offers zero value to every thread that you choose to respond to.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 13:43:32 GMT
You do not get the character This is a typical response from someone who can't handle criticism of a movie/character they do not like. Classic fan boy/girl response. It bothers you that someone doesn't like something you like, see you come back to the childish, "You don't get it" type response. Now, would you like to have an actual discussion or do you want to continue being a child?
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 14:00:55 GMT
Actually no, scratch that. I know why he became one, why did he stay one all the way through up Civil War? The guy has literally disagreed with everything the government/military has done in every movie after his first one so much so that by the time they reach Civil War he’s even questioning World War II: “Some would say it brought our country closer to war.” Of course it did – and rightly so! Didn’t he volunteer for World War II? Didn’t he volunteer to become a super soldier specifically to fight against the Nazis and Hitler? This isn’t some moral the gray area or military conflict. This is a god damn world war talking about. There is no more appropriate time to get involved then this particular situation. He disagrees with every single thing the US government has done in every one of these movies – even a no-brainer like this. You can see his point in other situations, but this one, there's just no defending this. Did the writers make a mistake and simply throw that in there just so that he would be disagreeing with Tony or is the character so paranoid at this point that he even questions his involvement in the most just war of all time? Steve Rogers never gave a shit about WWII. Remember that upon waking up in 2011 and hearing from Nick Fury that he had been asleep for 70 years, Rogers never even bothered to ask "Did we win the war?" or "Who won the war?". That would've been the 1st question that a true soldier would've asked. But Rogers didn't give a shit a WWII. Rogers joined the Army only because the other soldiers got the girls so Rogers wanted to be a soldier so he could get girls too. And that's why Rogers' 1st reaction upon hearing Fury tell him that he had been asleep for 70 years was that he wouldn't get to screw Peggy Carter. Stop being you for once. The guy just woke up 70 years in the future – he's a little shell-shocked. Superman up and attacked the Justice league after coming back from the dead because he was a “little fuzzy” and we all know you wouldn’t dare to criticize his response. No, Steve’s problem is that he is paranoid to the point of being anti-authority. Every single action taken by the government and/or military in every movie after his first movie he objects to. In the first Avengers movie when he discovers Nick Fury is using Hydra technology to build weapons, he freaks out, despite the fact fury explains why they are doing it (events from Thor 1). In the Winter Soldier he thinks that SHIELD needs to be destroyed because it has been infiltrated by Hydra spies. That’s like saying the FBI, CIA, ATF, or your local police precinct needs to be dismantled every time a crooked cop or spy is discovered; which is absolutely ridiculous. By the time Civil War comes around he believes superheroes are above the authorities and refuses to sign anything that would make them adhere to guidelines, walls, or be held accountable; just as every law enforcement officer or member of the military is. Government is always wrong in his eyes. That’s fine. It’s wrong, but it’s fine. However, when you reach the level of paranoia that you start to question our involvement in World War II, your credibility is shot. He’s lost perspective. There’s no excusing this irrational stance on the issue. World War II was pretty much the most just cause of all time.
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 14:06:03 GMT
What does the signing of the Lend-Lease Act have to do with signing the Accords? Is Tony insinuating that the Avengers will now be a Lend-Lease type organization treated as weapons/equipment that can allocated to those countries with the greatest need? You didn’t answer my question. I’m not going to answer yours when I’m the one who created the thread and you don’t even bother to make an attempt to answer my original comment. “Some would say it brought us closer to war.” And? Of course it did and it was completely justified. Why does Steve have a problem with that?
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 14, 2018 14:30:47 GMT
What does the signing of the Lend-Lease Act have to do with signing the Accords? Is Tony insinuating that the Avengers will now be a Lend-Lease type organization treated as weapons/equipment that can allocated to those countries with the greatest need? You didn’t answer my question. I’m not going to answer yours when I’m the one who created the thread and you don’t even bother to make an attempt to answer my original comment. “Some would say it brought us closer to war.” And? Of course it did and it was completely justified. Why does Steve have a problem with that? I don't think that comment indicates that he had a problem with the signing of the Lend-Lease act bringing us closer to war. He doesn't say, "I would say it brought us closer to war," he says 'some (as in others) would say that it brought us closer to war.' To me, he is merely pointing out to Tony that there is more than one possible interpretation of a situation. He is trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side of the Accords argument. We all know that the Lend-Lease act was just and saved many lives; however, examining critical analysis of the same doesn't make you an instant traitor. Ever since Steve woke up, he's been reading and studying history to learn what happened in and to our country during the 70 years he was asleep. It's commendable that he would look at both perspectives on any given topic with regards to American intervention in a given conflict. He is not merely subscribing to jingoistic doctrine and saluting on command. He's just as much a student as he is a soldier. With that in mind, he was trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side - not even agree with it - just to consider it. He never adopted that position as his own; he just said it existed and he implied it was worthy of examination even if it was to be rejected shortly after that. As to the reason he remained a soldier in spite of his doubts and reservations regarding what our Government does and does not do, that is simple. He's a human being. To leave the service would have left him with few prospects and even less in the way of purpose. He wanted to believe until the moment where he was forced to reconcile his doubts with his beliefs. Happy?
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Post by kuatorises on Mar 14, 2018 15:00:51 GMT
You didn’t answer my question. I’m not going to answer yours when I’m the one who created the thread and you don’t even bother to make an attempt to answer my original comment. “Some would say it brought us closer to war.” And? Of course it did and it was completely justified. Why does Steve have a problem with that? I don't think that comment indicates that he had a problem with the signing of the Lend-Lease act bringing us closer to war.
He doesn't say, "I would say it brought us closer to war," he says 'some (as in others) would say that it brought us closer to war.' To me, he is merely pointing out to Tony that there is more than one possible interpretation of a situation. He is trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side of the Accords argument. We all know that the Lend-Lease act was just and saved many lives; however, examining critical analysis of the same doesn't make you an instant traitor. Ever since Steve woke up, he's been reading and studying history to learn what happened in and to our country during the 70 years he was asleep. It's commendable that he would look at both perspectives on any given topic with regards to American intervention in a given conflict. He is not merely subscribing to jingoistic doctrine and saluting on command. He's just as much a student as he is a soldier. With that in mind, he was trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side - not even agree with it - just to consider it. He never adopted that position as his own; he just said it existed and he implied it was worthy of examination even if it was to be rejected shortly after that. As to the reason he remained a soldier in spite of his doubts and reservations regarding what our Government does and does not do, that is simple. He's a human being. To leave the service would have left him with few prospects and even less in the way of purpose. He wanted to believe until the moment where he was forced to reconcile his doubts with his beliefs. Happy? LOL, Wow! Talk about twisting someone's words. That was some Kellyanne Conway level maneuvering. I can smell the bullshit on your breath through my monitor.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Mar 14, 2018 15:27:42 GMT
I don't think that comment indicates that he had a problem with the signing of the Lend-Lease act bringing us closer to war.
He doesn't say, "I would say it brought us closer to war," he says 'some (as in others) would say that it brought us closer to war.' To me, he is merely pointing out to Tony that there is more than one possible interpretation of a situation. He is trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side of the Accords argument. We all know that the Lend-Lease act was just and saved many lives; however, examining critical analysis of the same doesn't make you an instant traitor. Ever since Steve woke up, he's been reading and studying history to learn what happened in and to our country during the 70 years he was asleep. It's commendable that he would look at both perspectives on any given topic with regards to American intervention in a given conflict. He is not merely subscribing to jingoistic doctrine and saluting on command. He's just as much a student as he is a soldier. With that in mind, he was trying to prompt Tony to look at the other side - not even agree with it - just to consider it. He never adopted that position as his own; he just said it existed and he implied it was worthy of examination even if it was to be rejected shortly after that. As to the reason he remained a soldier in spite of his doubts and reservations regarding what our Government does and does not do, that is simple. He's a human being. To leave the service would have left him with few prospects and even less in the way of purpose. He wanted to believe until the moment where he was forced to reconcile his doubts with his beliefs. Happy? LOL, Wow! Talk about twisting someone's words. That was some Kellyanne Conway level maneuvering. I can smell the bullshit on your breath through my monitor. LOL! And this is why I didn't bother answering the question in the first place. What would it have cost you to disagree and move on? You're not looking for another perspective. You're looking for support on your own, frankly banal, viewpoint. And of course you have to end with the same crass, and dismissive insults you always end with - it's the Kuato trademark I presume. You position yourself as some kind of critic who stands above the fanboy/fangirl perspective on the lauded pillars of "classical filmmaking" but, you're not better than us. We have loved these characters, these worlds, and these universes before they became "a thing." We were here first, and we will be here after you've moved on to the next big thing in action movies. You are unbearably rude and combative to a fault. I don't see any reason to converse with you on any subject, comic book movie or otherwise. Good luck rallying support around whatever answer it is that you're hoping to elicit. My advice to anyone looking for a rational debate on this subject - take a hard pass here. The OP is only looking to catch the writers in some kind of character-inconsistency paradox or outrightly discredit the character as undeserving of the popularity and attention he has received over the past few years. Instead, direct yourself to this gentlemen's website where he does manage to make entertaining observations on films of a certain ilk from time to time. Alas, I don't have the URL handy... As for you master Kuato, you are as transparent as the soul of innocent youth. PS - And don't bother replying, by the time you finish reading this, you will have already been relegated to the Phantom Zone.
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Post by Daisy on Mar 14, 2018 16:09:10 GMT
So basically you think Cap belongs in Guantanamo Bay. Steve Rogers definitely belongs in a prison for being an accessory to murder after the fact, since he knowingly aided and abetted a double-murderer to flee from the law. The 'real critics' say Thor: The Dark World is better than Wonder Woman.
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