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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 13:02:48 GMT
Posters here feel the same way he does. Poelzig, summers8, charzino off the top of my head. Yeah, payback. Payback for 10 years of insults over a movie series whose only crime is that it existed. No matter WHAT the MCU does they still rip into it and think it's all a waste. Well, no more holding back and acting like TDK is some perfect film without flaws. It has them and I'm not afraid to point them all out, while others are all "If you say one bad thing about TDK you're disrespecting Heath Ledger!" I'm just beyond that excuse now. TDK isn't perfect, it is nowhere NEAR perfect and I'm gonna point out its flaws no matter how "disrespectful" it is. Others hide behind their Ledger shield, but I'm gonna say what I'm gonna say. TDK fans don't like that? Tough, they threw the first punch here. You are sounding completely ridiculous. No one is claiming that not liking the movie is disrespectful to anyone. The only thing disrespectful is continuously insisting that people only like a movie because an actor died. It’s insulting and exploitative to do that. Like King Kong said, acting like his death had NO impact on the movie is what is ridiculous. Maybe they'd still like the movie but they sure wouldn't worship it the way they do if it weren't for that.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 14:34:22 GMT
You are sounding completely ridiculous. No one is claiming that not liking the movie is disrespectful to anyone. The only thing disrespectful is continuously insisting that people only like a movie because an actor died. It’s insulting and exploitative to do that. Like King Kong said, acting like his death had NO impact on the movie is what is ridiculous. Maybe they'd still like the movie but they sure wouldn't worship it the way they do if it weren't for that. It is undeniable that Ledger's death increased the movie's BO but I don't believe that it's the only reason he was given the Oscar. He would have won the award if he was alive or dead because he was freaking awesome.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 15:43:58 GMT
Yes I do. I was on that board regularly from 2006-2009. I never saw anyone criticise the movie for say the Batman voice and then people rushed at the guy saying he was being disrespectful of Heath Ledger. The voice thing started in Batman Begins, so it had already been going on before Ledger's presence in the movies. You never see anyone criticizing the stuff that DID come from the movie like Dent's "Heroes and villains" philosophy or Alfred's story about the bandit in Africa. Both of which are FULL of holes. The stuff parodied is from Begins and TDKR, never TDK. The voice thing didn’t become a prominent point of ridicule until TDK. Stop pretending that TDK doesn’t get criticized for things. It absolutely does. People are just willing to overlook the flaws because the movie is considered good. It has nothing to do with Heath Ledger dying. Stop exploiting his death. It’s disgusting. What is wrong with you?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 15:45:57 GMT
You are sounding completely ridiculous. No one is claiming that not liking the movie is disrespectful to anyone. The only thing disrespectful is continuously insisting that people only like a movie because an actor died. It’s insulting and exploitative to do that. Like King Kong said, acting like his death had NO impact on the movie is what is ridiculous. Maybe they'd still like the movie but they sure wouldn't worship it the way they do if it weren't for that. Who the hell “worships” the movie? People praise the movie because they consider it to be good. It has nothing to do with an actor’s death. Knock it off. I have already provided you with examples of movies where actors have died in post-production that didn’t receive the kind of praise TDK received. Star Trek Beyond had a young actor die before release, and that movie has a lower rating from critics than the previous two movies.
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Post by scabab on Mar 18, 2018 15:57:09 GMT
The stuff parodied is from Begins and TDKR, never TDK. No it started after The Dark Knight came out, by that time YouTube was now a thing and so parodies and spoofs were regularly uploaded. The one with 21 million for example came out the same month as The Dark Knight and spoofed the interrogation scene. It was with The Dark Knight where it started to be pointed out and started to became a meme. www.vulture.com/2008/08/everyone_knows_why_batman_talk.htmlwww.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/bale-batman-voice-article-1.312592The above even says "Though "The Dark Knight" has been a bona fide cultural event, boasting rave reviews and boffo box office, it hasn't been immune to criticism." So yes it was criticised despite you saying it wasn't and it was with this this movie (and randomly the other two....) that the voice became notorious.
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Post by damngumby on Mar 18, 2018 16:03:05 GMT
Feminist/SJW critics aren’t completely stupid. They’re not going to give a very bad film a good review. That would be too obviously agenda driven. But they could get away with giving a mediocre film a better review than it deserves. WW certainly benefited from some girl-power reviews, but I think it also benefited from some pity reviews. You know, like when the dumb kid finally scores a C+ on a test and receives a disproportionate amount of adulation from the adults. DC is that kid. Wonder Woman is the C+. That’s an interesting theory right there. I take it you have evidence to back up your claims? Sure. Just browse through the Wonder Woman reviews. All the positive reviews that commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes, are reviews that were influenced by a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. Of course, Justice League was a return to the same ol’, same ol’ ... and a cruel slap in the face of those sympathetic/hopeful critics. So don’t expect any pity boosters the next time around.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:05:59 GMT
That’s an interesting theory right there. I take it you have evidence to back up your claims? Sure. Just browse through the Wonder Woman reviews. All the positive reviews that commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes, are reviews that were influenced by a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. Of course, Justice League was a return to the same ol’, same ol’ ... and a cruel slap in the face of those sympathetic/hopeful critics. So don’t expect any pity boosters the next time around. So your evidence is that critics said that WW is much better than the other DC films?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:15:24 GMT
Like King Kong said, acting like his death had NO impact on the movie is what is ridiculous. Maybe they'd still like the movie but they sure wouldn't worship it the way they do if it weren't for that. It is undeniable that Ledger's death increased the movie's BO but I don't believe that it's the only reason he was given the Oscar. He would have won the award if he was alive or dead because he was freaking awesome. Eh, I doubt he'd have won. It was a pity award because the Academy wanted to give him one since Brokeback. It's like Dicaprio, he didn't do anything Oscar worthy in Revenant. It was to make up for all his prior snubs.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:17:32 GMT
The voice thing started in Batman Begins, so it had already been going on before Ledger's presence in the movies. You never see anyone criticizing the stuff that DID come from the movie like Dent's "Heroes and villains" philosophy or Alfred's story about the bandit in Africa. Both of which are FULL of holes. The stuff parodied is from Begins and TDKR, never TDK. The voice thing didn’t become a prominent point of ridicule until TDK. Stop pretending that TDK doesn’t get criticized for things. It absolutely does. People are just willing to overlook the flaws because the movie is considered good. It has nothing to do with Heath Ledger dying. Stop exploiting his death. It’s disgusting. What is wrong with you? No, if they were willing to criticize the movie they'd point out that Joker being omnipotent was a lazy writing choice and the philosophies presented in the film are full of holes. But they don't, now why is that?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:19:32 GMT
Like King Kong said, acting like his death had NO impact on the movie is what is ridiculous. Maybe they'd still like the movie but they sure wouldn't worship it the way they do if it weren't for that. Who the hell “worships” the movie? Ever been to the old IMDB boards? That's your proof. Then there were the nutbags who wanted Joker retired forever out of respect for Ledger. That says it all. Paul Walker wasn't an Academy darling like Legder was, and the F&F series wasn't as respected as Nolan's stuff was. He wasn't a big enough part of the movie.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:20:42 GMT
The stuff parodied is from Begins and TDKR, never TDK. No it started after The Dark Knight came out, by that time YouTube was now a thing and so parodies and spoofs were regularly uploaded. The one with 21 million for example came out the same month as The Dark Knight and spoofed the interrogation scene. It started before TDK, and that one clip only makes fun of Batman and not Joker. You'd never know it FROM the reviews.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:23:05 GMT
The voice thing didn’t become a prominent point of ridicule until TDK. Stop pretending that TDK doesn’t get criticized for things. It absolutely does. People are just willing to overlook the flaws because the movie is considered good. It has nothing to do with Heath Ledger dying. Stop exploiting his death. It’s disgusting. What is wrong with you? No, if they were willing to criticize the movie they'd point out that Joker being omnipotent was a lazy writing choice and the philosophies presented in the film are full of holes. But they don't, now why is that? Your argument was that people didn’t make fun of the voice thing in TDK, despite the fact that the voice thing actually became a point of ridicule starting in 2008. People did criticize the voice, and there have been people who have criticized the Joker’s plan as well. I’ve told you this countless times before. I’ve even shown you this video.
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Post by damngumby on Mar 18, 2018 16:24:16 GMT
Sure. Just browse through the Wonder Woman reviews. All the positive reviews that commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes, are reviews that were influenced by a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. Of course, Justice League was a return to the same ol’, same ol’ ... and a cruel slap in the face of those sympathetic/hopeful critics. So don’t expect any pity boosters the next time around. So your evidence is that critics said that WW is much better than the other DC films? My evidence is the critics who commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes. Critics who expressed a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. (Did I really need to say this a second time?) Critics who simply said that WW is much better than the other DC films don’t necessarily apply for pity boosters.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:26:10 GMT
Who the hell “worships” the movie? Ever been to the old IMDB boards? That's your proof. Then there were the nutbags who wanted Joker retired forever out of respect for Ledger. That says it all. Paul Walker wasn't an Academy darling like Legder was, and the F&F series wasn't as respected as Nolan's stuff was. He wasn't a big enough part of the movie. People didn’t want the Joker retired “forever”. The argument at the time was that they shouldn’t recast the Joker in a sequel to TDK out of respect for Ledger. Also, what about Robin Williams? He wasn’t an Academy darling? Why didn’t he get an Oscar nomination for his final role?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:28:38 GMT
So your evidence is that critics said that WW is much better than the other DC films? My evidence is the critics who commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes. Critics who expressed a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. (Did I really need to say this a second time?) Critics who simply said that WW is much better than the other DC films don’t necessarily apply for pity boosters. I got what you said the first time around. What you are arguing about isn’t evidence of critics giving the movie a “pity boost”. All it suggests is that critics thought WW was a significant improvement over the previous movies.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:35:54 GMT
No, if they were willing to criticize the movie they'd point out that Joker being omnipotent was a lazy writing choice and the philosophies presented in the film are full of holes. But they don't, now why is that? Your argument was that people didn’t make fun of the voice thing in TDK, despite the fact that the voice thing actually became a point of ridicule starting in 2008. People did criticize the voice, and there have been people who have criticized the Joker’s plan as well. I’ve told you this countless times before. I’ve even shown you this video. They made fun of the voice because it started in 2005, before Dark Knight, which made it acceptable. If the voice thing had started in TDK in 2008, they wouldn't make fun of it anymore. Who criticizes Joker being omnipotent? All I ever hear is how wonderfully it fit the film and its themes and other garbage. That music video doesn't mean a thing.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 16:37:08 GMT
Ever been to the old IMDB boards? That's your proof. Then there were the nutbags who wanted Joker retired forever out of respect for Ledger. That says it all. Paul Walker wasn't an Academy darling like Legder was, and the F&F series wasn't as respected as Nolan's stuff was. He wasn't a big enough part of the movie. People didn’t want the Joker retired “forever”. The argument at the time was that they shouldn’t recast the Joker in a sequel to TDK out of respect for Ledger. Also, what about Robin Williams? He wasn’t an Academy darling? Why didn’t he get an Oscar nomination for his final role? It was forever, as in he should never be played by another actor no matter what or if the series was rebooted and he shouldn't be used in any other media ever either. Total retirement, total fanaticism. Williams already got an Oscar in 1998. The academy wouldn't think "Oh, now we can't give him one."
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:41:11 GMT
Your argument was that people didn’t make fun of the voice thing in TDK, despite the fact that the voice thing actually became a point of ridicule starting in 2008. People did criticize the voice, and there have been people who have criticized the Joker’s plan as well. I’ve told you this countless times before. I’ve even shown you this video. They made fun of the voice because it started in 2005, before Dark Knight, which made it acceptable. If the voice thing had started in TDK in 2008, they wouldn't make fun of it anymore. Who criticizes Joker being omnipotent? All I ever hear is how wonderfully it fit the film and its themes and other garbage. That music video doesn't mean a thing. Actually, the Batman voice in BB wasn’t as growly as it was in the later two films. People didn’t truly begin making fun of the voice until TDK came along. The Joker was not “omnipotent”. He showed a tendency for meticulous planning, but his plan ultimately ended up failing when those people on the ferries didn’t blow each other up like he wanted.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 16:43:54 GMT
People didn’t want the Joker retired “forever”. The argument at the time was that they shouldn’t recast the Joker in a sequel to TDK out of respect for Ledger. Also, what about Robin Williams? He wasn’t an Academy darling? Why didn’t he get an Oscar nomination for his final role? It was forever, as in he should never be played by another actor no matter what or if the series was rebooted and he shouldn't be used in any other media ever either. Total retirement, total fanaticism. Williams already got an Oscar in 1998. The academy wouldn't think "Oh, now we can't give him one." Given that the Joker was used in other media shortly after TDK (including the well received animated movie titled Under the Red Hood), your argument has little weight to it. You claimed that Heath Ledger only got an Oscar nod because he was an “Oscar darling”. I was simply pointing out that if we went by your logic, Robin Williams should’ve been nominated for an Oscar for his final performance as well, given how much the Academy loved him.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 16:44:00 GMT
It is undeniable that Ledger's death increased the movie's BO but I don't believe that it's the only reason he was given the Oscar. He would have won the award if he was alive or dead because he was freaking awesome. Eh, I doubt he'd have won. It was a pity award because the Academy wanted to give him one since Brokeback. It's like Dicaprio, he didn't do anything Oscar worthy in Revenant. It was to make up for all his prior snubs. Which of these performances do you think was more deserving of the Oscar? Josh Brolin - Milk, RDJ - Tropic Thunder, Michael Shannon - Revolutionary Road, Phillip Seymour Hoffman - Doubt.
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