|
Post by damngumby on Mar 18, 2018 17:20:11 GMT
My evidence is the critics who commented on how the DCEU finally got one right and hoped that WW was a sign that DC had learned from their mistakes. Critics who expressed a sense of pity toward the sorry state of the DCEU after the BvS and SS disasters. (Did I really need to say this a second time?) Critics who simply said that WW is much better than the other DC films don’t necessarily apply for pity boosters. I got what you said the first time around. Then you didn’t get what I said the first time around ... or the 2nd ... the prognosis for round three is not looking too good.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 17:27:46 GMT
I got what you said the first time around. Then you didn’t get what I said the first time around ... or the 2nd ... the prognosis for round three is not looking too good. You still haven’t provided any real evidence of critics taking pity on a movie. It kind of seems like you’re just coming up with an excuse to justify why a movie you didn’t like was well received.
|
|
|
Post by damngumby on Mar 18, 2018 18:02:15 GMT
Then you didn’t get what I said the first time around ... or the 2nd ... the prognosis for round three is not looking too good. You still haven’t provided any real evidence of critics taking pity on a movie. It kind of seems like you’re just coming up with an excuse to justify why a movie you didn’t like was well received. Oh boy, this topic sailed completely over your head, didn’t it Ace? You think we’ve been talking about critics taking pity on a movie? My prognosis for round three was, unfortunately, correct. I can’t even contemplate what round four might look like.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 18:13:36 GMT
You still haven’t provided any real evidence of critics taking pity on a movie. It kind of seems like you’re just coming up with an excuse to justify why a movie you didn’t like was well received. Oh boy, this topic sailed completely over your head, didn’t it Ace? You think we’ve been talking about critics taking pity on a movie? My prognosis for round three was, unfortunately, correct. I can’t even contemplate what round four might look like. So who or what else have they been taking pity on? Being condescending doesn’t suddenly make your argument clever.
|
|
|
Post by damngumby on Mar 18, 2018 18:47:49 GMT
Oh boy, this topic sailed completely over your head, didn’t it Ace? You think we’ve been talking about critics taking pity on a movie? My prognosis for round three was, unfortunately, correct. I can’t even contemplate what round four might look like. So who or what else have they been taking pity on? Being condescending doesn’t suddenly make your argument clever. The DCEU. I thought that was quite clear in each of my posts on this topic. I mean, how the hell could you have missed that? You're not exactly instilling a lot of confidence in a round five.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 19:00:59 GMT
So who or what else have they been taking pity on? Being condescending doesn’t suddenly make your argument clever. The DCEU. I thought that was quite clear in each of my posts on this topic. I mean, how the hell could you have missed that? You're not exactly instilling a lot of confidence in a round five. I don’t really see how that changes anything. If anything, that’s even more ridiculous of a notion than this idea that critics would take pity on a single movie. If critics thought that BvS and SS were bad (which they did) why would they take pity on the franchise that spawned those films?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 19:18:15 GMT
The DCEU. I thought that was quite clear in each of my posts on this topic. I mean, how the hell could you have missed that? You're not exactly instilling a lot of confidence in a round five. I don’t really see how that changes anything. If anything, that’s even more ridiculous of a notion than this idea that critics would take pity on a single movie. If critics thought that BvS and SS were bad (which they did) why would they take pity on the franchise that spawned those films? They were probably taking pity on themselves. You've witnessed the DCU Fruit-Loops, right? ![](https://s26.postimg.org/tek3suwt5/laugh.gif)
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:22:49 GMT
They made fun of the voice because it started in 2005, before Dark Knight, which made it acceptable. If the voice thing had started in TDK in 2008, they wouldn't make fun of it anymore. Who criticizes Joker being omnipotent? All I ever hear is how wonderfully it fit the film and its themes and other garbage. That music video doesn't mean a thing. Actually, the Batman voice in BB wasn’t as growly as it was in the later two films. People didn’t truly begin making fun of the voice until TDK came along. The Joker was not “omnipotent”. He showed a tendency for meticulous planning, but his plan ultimately ended up failing when those people on the ferries didn’t blow each other up like he wanted. They were still taking shots at the voice then too, which is why the complaints about it are acceptable by Nolanites. He was. He succeeded at EVERYTHING because blowing up the yachts wasn't his real plan, corrupting Dent was. Of course, if Gordon and Batman had brains they'd have been able to spin that in a way that protected Dent but Nolan didn't think about that.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:24:37 GMT
It was forever, as in he should never be played by another actor no matter what or if the series was rebooted and he shouldn't be used in any other media ever either. Total retirement, total fanaticism. Williams already got an Oscar in 1998. The academy wouldn't think "Oh, now we can't give him one." Given that the Joker was used in other media shortly after TDK (including the well received animated movie titled Under the Red Hood), your argument has little weight to it. You claimed that Heath Ledger only got an Oscar nod because he was an “Oscar darling”. I was simply pointing out that if we went by your logic, Robin Williams should’ve been nominated for an Oscar for his final performance as well, given how much the Academy loved him. I'm not saying they succeeded, just that they thought they could succeed. Which speaks volumes. They wanted to give him one since Brokeback and once he died they knew they'd never be able to give him one for a "proper" movie. Williams already had an Oscar so there was less incentive.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:25:22 GMT
Eh, I doubt he'd have won. It was a pity award because the Academy wanted to give him one since Brokeback. It's like Dicaprio, he didn't do anything Oscar worthy in Revenant. It was to make up for all his prior snubs. Which of these performances do you think was more deserving of the Oscar? Josh Brolin - Milk, RDJ - Tropic Thunder, Michael Shannon - Revolutionary Road, Phillip Seymour Hoffman - Doubt. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/gf93ycxax/giveup.gif) Either Shannon or Brolin.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 19:29:12 GMT
Actually, the Batman voice in BB wasn’t as growly as it was in the later two films. People didn’t truly begin making fun of the voice until TDK came along. The Joker was not “omnipotent”. He showed a tendency for meticulous planning, but his plan ultimately ended up failing when those people on the ferries didn’t blow each other up like he wanted. They were still taking shots at the voice then too, which is why the complaints about it are acceptable by Nolanites. He was. He succeeded at EVERYTHING because blowing up the yachts wasn't his real plan, corrupting Dent was. Of course, if Gordon and Batman had brains they'd have been able to spin that in a way that protected Dent but Nolan didn't think about that. Of all the things that BB was criticized for back in the day, the bat-voice was not one of them. Again, that didn’t become a prominent complaint until TDK. Getting the people in those ferries to blow each other up was a pretty important part of his plan. His goal was to prove that people are inherently selfish and murderous. The fact that the people on the boats refused to go through with it was a pretty big problem for his plan. Dent was his backup plan but not his only plan.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:31:28 GMT
They were still taking shots at the voice then too, which is why the complaints about it are acceptable by Nolanites. He was. He succeeded at EVERYTHING because blowing up the yachts wasn't his real plan, corrupting Dent was. Of course, if Gordon and Batman had brains they'd have been able to spin that in a way that protected Dent but Nolan didn't think about that. Of all the things that BB was criticized for back in the day, the bat-voice was not one of them. Again, that didn’t become a prominent complaint until TDK. Getting the people in those ferries to blow each other up was a pretty important part of his plan. His goal was to prove that people are inherently selfish and murderous. The fact that the people on the boats refused to go through with it was a pretty big problem for his plan. Dent was his backup plan but not his only plan. It was still a critique that started before TDK though. No matter how minor, it's the reason why Nolanites are okay critiquing that but nothing exclusive to TDK. His plan was always to corrupt or ruin Batman and Dent was always the biggest part of that. The yachts were the secondary thing. Of course, him being able to rig the boats to blow was part of his omnipotence too. And if Gordon and Batman had any brains they wouldn't have needed to have Batman take the fall for Dent and just cover up Dents' actions another way, but the plot needed them to be idiots and Joker omnipotent.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 19:32:43 GMT
Given that the Joker was used in other media shortly after TDK (including the well received animated movie titled Under the Red Hood), your argument has little weight to it. You claimed that Heath Ledger only got an Oscar nod because he was an “Oscar darling”. I was simply pointing out that if we went by your logic, Robin Williams should’ve been nominated for an Oscar for his final performance as well, given how much the Academy loved him. I'm not saying they succeeded, just that they thought they could succeed. Which speaks volumes. They wanted to give him one since Brokeback and once he died they knew they'd never be able to give him one for a "proper" movie. Williams already had an Oscar so there was less incentive. Succeed at what? I don’t recall there having been petitions to permanently retire the Joker across all media. In that case, they could’ve given him an Oscar for The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:33:18 GMT
I'm not saying they succeeded, just that they thought they could succeed. Which speaks volumes. They wanted to give him one since Brokeback and once he died they knew they'd never be able to give him one for a "proper" movie. Williams already had an Oscar so there was less incentive. Succeed at what? I don’t recall there having been petitions to permanently retire the Joker across all media. In that case, they could’ve given him an Oscar for The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. I do. That film didn't have a full performance from Ledger.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 19:38:41 GMT
Of all the things that BB was criticized for back in the day, the bat-voice was not one of them. Again, that didn’t become a prominent complaint until TDK. Getting the people in those ferries to blow each other up was a pretty important part of his plan. His goal was to prove that people are inherently selfish and murderous. The fact that the people on the boats refused to go through with it was a pretty big problem for his plan. Dent was his backup plan but not his only plan. It was still a critique that started before TDK though. No matter how minor, it's the reason why Nolanites are okay critiquing that but nothing exclusive to TDK. His plan was always to corrupt or ruin Batman and Dent was always the biggest part of that. The yachts were the secondary thing. Of course, him being able to rig the boats to blow was part of his omnipotence too. And if Gordon and Batman had any brains they wouldn't have needed to have Batman take the fall for Dent and just cover up Dents' actions another way, but the plot needed them to be idiots and Joker omnipotent. If it did, it wasn’t in any notable capacity. The Batman voice in BB wasn’t even that pronounced. The only time he actually “growled” was when he interrogated Flass. Speaking of interrogation: link. The boats weren’t secondary. They were a major part of his plan. They may not have been the only part of his plan, but he was still pretty frustrated and surprised when it didn’t work out. As for Batman taking the fall for Dent, that was the most viable way of covering up what Dent did. Contrary to what some might think, blaming the Joker would’ve raised a ton of questions.
|
|
|
Post by thisguy4000 on Mar 18, 2018 19:40:19 GMT
Succeed at what? I don’t recall there having been petitions to permanently retire the Joker across all media. In that case, they could’ve given him an Oscar for The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. I do. That film didn't have a full performance from Ledger. Where? He was still in the film. They could’ve nominated him for that if they really wanted to.
|
|
|
Post by scabab on Mar 18, 2018 19:43:02 GMT
It started before TDK, and that one clip only makes fun of Batman and not Joker. Not to remotely the same extent otherwise those articles would have only been made in 2008 when The Dark Knight came out. YouTube did not exist when Batman Begins came out. It did when The Dark Knight came out, and the many popular parodies and spoofs turned it into a bigger thing. That video wasn't about making fun of the Joker p, it was about mocking the Batman voice. The movie has 20 negative reviews listed on Rotten Tomatoes and if it wasn't criticised then it wouldn't have a 8.6 average rating, it'd be a 10.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2018 19:44:40 GMT
Succeed at what? I don’t recall there having been petitions to permanently retire the Joker across all media. In that case, they could’ve given him an Oscar for The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus. I do. That film didn't have a full performance from Ledger. I don't recall Michael Shannon being in Revolutionary Road for very long and yet you would give him an Oscar. Judy Dench was in Shakespeare in Love for 8 minutes and she won an Academy Award. ![](https://s26.postimg.org/m8f14k0ih/yes.gif)
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:48:31 GMT
It was still a critique that started before TDK though. No matter how minor, it's the reason why Nolanites are okay critiquing that but nothing exclusive to TDK. His plan was always to corrupt or ruin Batman and Dent was always the biggest part of that. The yachts were the secondary thing. Of course, him being able to rig the boats to blow was part of his omnipotence too. And if Gordon and Batman had any brains they wouldn't have needed to have Batman take the fall for Dent and just cover up Dents' actions another way, but the plot needed them to be idiots and Joker omnipotent. If it did, it wasn’t in any notable capacity. The Batman voice in BB wasn’t even that pronounced. The only time he actually “growled” was when he interrogated Flass. Speaking of interrogation: link. The boats weren’t secondary. They were a major part of his plan. They may not have been the only part of his plan, but he was still pretty frustrated and surprised when it didn’t work out. As for Batman taking the fall for Dent, that was the most viable way of covering up what Dent did. Contrary to what some might think, blaming the Joker would’ve raised a ton of questions. It was still notable, enough to get some chuckles. So when it got worse in TDK they felt okay making fun of it because it wasn't a swipe against something TDK introduced. Everything was really about Dent first and foremost. The boats were a secondary thing (and like I said, him being able to get them on the boats and rig the boats was just more omnipotence lazy writing) which is why he still felt victorious in the end. They don't need to blame Joker, they just need to say Dent was left brain damaged and was dying from his injuries and cover up the deaths.
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Mar 18, 2018 19:50:58 GMT
I do. That film didn't have a full performance from Ledger. Where? He was still in the film. They could’ve nominated him for that if they really wanted to. He was, but not enough to merit any kind of attention.
|
|