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Post by charzhino on Mar 24, 2018 18:27:07 GMT
Glad you agree. I recently watched the trilogies. What a mess. Not just the Cap one you mention (yeah but that one too, big time). Just take the Thor trilogy, every goddamn film contradicts or undermines the previous one. I am not talking about things happening outside the trilogies in other films (a staple of shared universes like Star Trek), it's that it's full of contradictions, logic & tone leaps, deus ex machina and bad writing. And yet the Thor franchise is suddenly better than ever by a mile. Oddest complaint ever. Because they dumbed it down.
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Post by DC-Fan on Mar 24, 2018 19:00:39 GMT
Glad you agree. I recently watched the trilogies. What a mess. Not just the Cap one you mention (yeah but that one too, big time). Just take the Thor trilogy, every goddamn film contradicts or undermines the previous one. I am not talking about things happening outside the trilogies in other films (a staple of shared universes like Star Trek), it's that it's full of contradictions, logic & tone leaps, deus ex machina and bad writing. For instance: Film 1: Big cliffhanger ending with the destroyed rainbow bridge and star crossed lovers longing for each other (sweet), will they ever meet again? Next one: Thor was already on Earth and did not care to visit big love Jane (he was soup eating), how: he found an easy Odin-teleportation-way to return to Earth and has no real explanation why he found no time for a short visit or even call. Anyway, after Jane slaps him (funny) for not visiting her they still remain big lovebirds because of script reasons, and he introduces her to his royal family - do we hear wedding bells? WRONG, next film Thor becomes the God of Comedy starring in the classic comedy: " American Ragnarok - the Hoot and Holler of the Marvel Gods" - and talented comedian he is he has already spilt up his serious relationship with Jane and her family bc of reasons (you guessed it, it's played as a juvenile joke). He does not care about it too much or his dad dying but he cries when he's getting an stylish haircut. Oh, and betraying villain snake Loki is now his best adopted BRO because of bromance reasons, and he suddenly has a super-evil sister too because of...I give up.. It's just the tip of the iceberg, what a fucking, amateurish mess, no story plan, no congruent vision, no consistency in tone, character or motivation. The epitome of bad writing. One can tell that they just made it up while going along influenced by other factors than story or logic. We need Thor in Avengers, but he is landlocked in Thor 1 - fuck it Odin deus ex machina teleportation. What about Jane? Fuck her later in Thor 2. Star wars is popular lets insert spaceship battles BOOOM, third one: everybody agrees film 1 and 2 sucked BIG time, let's do Guardians kind of dumbed down kiddy-humor. I do not care about Marvel films, but the same thing is happening with the new SW trilogy. Planless messy pandering to the lowest common denominator and disregarding things established. People say these films will be forgotten quickly because they are low quality junk food, I say they will be forgotten because they are an unwatchable mess. This is not even up for discussion. Excellent analysis!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 19:06:35 GMT
And yet the Thor franchise is suddenly better than ever by a mile. Oddest complaint ever. Because they dumbed it down. To be fair it depends on how much you liked Thor in the first two. Many people found him a boring character so I guess they Star Lordified him for Ragnarok. Which I'll admit it might be inconsistent if the Russo make him serious in Infinity War and based on the trailers Thor will be more like his former self.
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Post by charzhino on Mar 24, 2018 19:27:55 GMT
Because they dumbed it down. To be fair it depends on how much you liked Thor in the first two. Many people found him a boring character so I guess they Star Lordified him for Ragnarok. Which I'll admit it might be inconsistent if the Russo make him serious in Infinity War and based on the trailers Thor will be more like his former self. The first 2 Thors are top 8 MCU movies imo. Because they take them selves somewhat more seriously and have great drama between Loki-Thor-Odin with enough humour to make them entertaining. Ragnarok is a major departure. I felt it mocked and disrespected the first 2 Thors and deconstructed the characters and prestige they had worked to achieve. They get rid of his hair. Rid of his hammer. Rid of Jane. Rid of Lady Sif. Quickly rid of Odin. Rid of warriors 3. Rid of Thors Shakespearan speech style. Give Loki and Heimdall very thin arcs. A thorough deconstruction. Captain America is a more 1 dimensional boring character than Thor but they stuck with the same tone in his 3 movies and they were on the whole a great trilogy.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 19:47:54 GMT
They have bigger problems. Dialogue like:
"Let's talk about this plan of yours. I think it's good, except it sucks."
The verbal wit contained therein is a knee slapper.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:01:06 GMT
Life itself doesn't have one tone or one theme, why should movies all be exactly the same in everything? Movies are fictional so saying "life is unpredictable" is a lazy excuse. Oh no it's not. If anything saying it all has to have one tone forever is a lazy excuse for movies. Not if the minor explanations made sense and you paid attention. Because truthfully, they barely knew one another and Thor being off in space for years can be a crimp in any relationship. Steve was hardly the stiff, humorless bore you want him to be.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:01:50 GMT
Glad you agree. I recently watched the trilogies. What a mess. Not just the Cap one you mention (yeah but that one too, big time). Just take the Thor trilogy, every goddamn film contradicts or undermines the previous one. I am not talking about things happening outside the trilogies in other films (a staple of shared universes like Star Trek), it's that it's full of contradictions, logic & tone leaps, deus ex machina and bad writing. For instance: Film 1: Big cliffhanger ending with the destroyed rainbow bridge and star crossed lovers longing for each other (sweet), will they ever meet again? Next one: Thor was already on Earth and did not care to visit big love Jane (he was soup eating), how: he found an easy Odin-teleportation-way to return to Earth and has no real explanation why he found no time for a short visit or even call. Anyway, after Jane slaps him (funny) for not visiting her they still remain big lovebirds because of script reasons, and he introduces her to his royal family - do we hear wedding bells? WRONG, next film Thor becomes the God of Comedy starring in the classic comedy: " American Ragnarok - the Hoot and Holler of the Marvel Gods" - and talented comedian he is he has already spilt up his serious relationship with Jane and her family bc of reasons (you guessed it, it's played as a juvenile joke). He does not care about it too much or his dad dying but he cries when he's getting an stylish haircut. Oh, and betraying villain snake Loki is now his best adopted BRO because of bromance reasons, and he suddenly has a super-evil sister too because of...I give up.. It's just the tip of the iceberg, what a fucking, amateurish mess, no story plan, no congruent vision, no consistency in tone, character or motivation. The epitome of bad writing. One can tell that they just made it up while going along influenced by other factors than story or logic. We need Thor in Avengers, but he is landlocked in Thor 1 - fuck it Odin deus ex machina teleportation. What about Jane? Fuck her later in Thor 2. Star wars is popular lets insert spaceship battles BOOOM, third one: everybody agrees film 1 and 2 sucked BIG time, let's do Guardians kind of dumbed down kiddy-humor. I do not care about Marvel films, but the same thing is happening with the new SW trilogy. Planless messy pandering to the lowest common denominator and disregarding things established. People say these films will be forgotten quickly because they are low quality junk food, I say they will be forgotten because they are an unwatchable mess. This is not even up for discussion. Excellent analysis! Excellently pretentious, maybe.
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Post by scabab on Mar 24, 2018 20:02:32 GMT
Let's not be disparaging to the OP. He pointed out something that a lot of people have been talking about. It is clearly a thing considering Feige said he was going to release a Timeline after these issues were brought up.
So if Civil War is 2 years after Winter Soldier and that is only 2 years after The Avengers then that of course fits with the real time that 4 years passed. However it ended up being 8 years.
Thor Ragnarok mentioned it had been 2 years since Age of Ultron which also fits real time. Thor Ragnarok looks to be set right before Infinity War and around the same time as Spider-man.
Which would mean Age of Ultron would be 6 years after The Avengers....but Civil War would be 4 years after The Avengers....and Civil War took place after Age of Ultron. So it doesn't fit.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:03:07 GMT
They have bigger problems. Dialogue like: "Let's talk about this plan of yours. I think it's good, except it sucks." The verbal wit contained therein is a knee slapper. So you dislike natural dialog? I suppose Starlord needs to give some grand operatic monolog about Burmese Bandits.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 20:06:48 GMT
So you dislike natural dialog? Movies about flying people and talking raccoons aren't natural. The point is that dialogue is retarded. Unless that is how the character always came across. He needs to take an English course in between his space adventures. Spending too much time with non native English speakers.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:10:35 GMT
So you dislike natural dialog? Movies about flying people and talking raccoons aren't natural. Thinking like yours is backwards and reflects a person who shouldn't be watching unashamed Comic movies to begin with. You want real crap dialog, go watch the Star Wars Prequels.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 20:16:32 GMT
Thinking like yours is backwards and reflects a person who shouldn't be watching unashamed Comic movies to begin with. You want real crap dialog, go watch the Star Wars Prequels. I have nothing against movies with flying people or talking raccoons. I have a problem with bad dialogue. It's a bad line. It's not even witty. "Let's talk about your plan. It sucks." That would make more sense than him saying "It's good but it sucks."
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Post by damngumby on Mar 24, 2018 20:50:20 GMT
The biggest MCU defenders here (the MCU Defense Attorneys) say that there are no continuity errors with Marvel's timeline. This is a mistake. I'm watching Civil War right now, and given what Homecoming tells us, there are some MASSIVE (and unfixable) continuity errors. Homecoming takes place 8 years after The Avengers. Homecoming also takes place months (at most) after Civil War. The Winter Soldier takes place 2 years after The Avengers. In Civil War, Falcon says that they were looking for Bucky for 2 years. When did they start looking for Bucky? Right at the end of The Winter Solider (2 years after The Avengers). So Civil War can't simultaneously take place right before Homecoming and 2 years after The Winter Soldier. It doesn't work, given the 8 years between Homecoming and The Avengers. Wow. MASSIVE FUCK UP by Marvel. Wonder how they'll fix it...? Or maybe they'll just count on their SHEEP fans not questioning it...? The Avengers .... then Winter Soldier ... then Civil War .... then Homecoming. The continuity seems fine to me. Four movies in sequence. No continuity mix-ups where the events of one movie are out of order to the events of another movie. What we’ve got here is some overblown hysterics over dates. If The Avengers is year 0 and Homecoming is year 8, then Civil War can be year 7, and Winter Soldier is year 5. What’s the problem?
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 20:57:13 GMT
Thinking like yours is backwards and reflects a person who shouldn't be watching unashamed Comic movies to begin with. You want real crap dialog, go watch the Star Wars Prequels. I have nothing against movies with flying people or talking raccoons. I have a problem with bad dialogue. It's a bad line. It's not even witty. "Let's talk about your plan. It sucks." That would make more sense than him saying "It's good but it sucks." It's him basically twisting the knife in what he thinks of Stark and his idea, the irreverence. Saying "It sucks" is just a dull thing to say. Let me guess, you're gonna say great dialog is Wonder Woman's "Love will save the world" stuff.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 21:21:58 GMT
It's him basically twisting the knife in what he thinks of Stark and his idea, the irreverence. Saying "It sucks" is just a dull thing to say. Let me guess, you're gonna say great dialog is Wonder Woman's "Love will save the world" stuff. No I am not. But let's talk about your reply. It's good but it sucks. Hilarious put down isn't it?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Mar 24, 2018 21:53:41 GMT
The biggest MCU defenders here (the MCU Defense Attorneys) say that there are no continuity errors with Marvel's timeline. This is a mistake. I'm watching Civil War right now, and given what Homecoming tells us, there are some MASSIVE (and unfixable) continuity errors. Homecoming takes place 8 years after The Avengers. Homecoming also takes place months (at most) after Civil War. The Winter Soldier takes place 2 years after The Avengers. In Civil War, Falcon says that they were looking for Bucky for 2 years. When did they start looking for Bucky? Right at the end of The Winter Solider (2 years after The Avengers). So Civil War can't simultaneously take place right before Homecoming and 2 years after The Winter Soldier. It doesn't work, given the 8 years between Homecoming and The Avengers. Wow. MASSIVE FUCK UP by Marvel. Wonder how they'll fix it...? Or maybe they'll just count on their SHEEP fans not questioning it...? The Avengers .... then Winter Soldier ... then Civil War .... then Homecoming. The continuity seems fine to me. Four movies in sequence. No continuity mix-ups where the events of one movie are out of order to the events of another movie. What we’ve got here is some overblown hysterics over dates. If The Avengers is year 0 and Homecoming is year 8, then Civil War can be year 7, and Winter Soldier is year 5. What’s the problem? So basically you agree the continuity is shattered and the MCU needs a reboot.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 21:55:43 GMT
It's him basically twisting the knife in what he thinks of Stark and his idea, the irreverence. Saying "It sucks" is just a dull thing to say. Let me guess, you're gonna say great dialog is Wonder Woman's "Love will save the world" stuff. No I am not. But let's talk about your reply. It's good but it sucks. Hilarious put down isn't it? Mildly.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 22:00:45 GMT
Stark's reply of "wow" is weak too btw.
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Post by formersamhmd on Mar 24, 2018 22:03:58 GMT
Stark's reply of "wow" is weak too btw. Do you expect him to on some grand operatic monologue?
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Mar 24, 2018 22:09:39 GMT
Do you expect him to on some grand operatic monologue? No, but I expect him to say something other than the Justin Bieber dialogue he is currently saddled with.
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