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Post by tarathian123 on Feb 25, 2017 16:50:31 GMT
Many thanks for your lengthy and erudite input. I certainly understand the American psyche towards royalty more than I did. Ah yes, John Dickson Carr, I really should have known him, I've read enough of his novels under that name and of course under Carter Dickson. I'm a whodunnit addict. :-) I particularly liked his Henry Merrivale novels but I can't get them anywhere at the moment, at least not on audiobooks which these days I prefer (if it's well narrated). I've tried, as it must be 50 years since I read them. I have some Carr downloads.
But that's off topic, as is this whole exchange. It's supposed to be about sexy monarchs. I dunno, as I said in a post above, our current queen was a tasty dish when she was young. :-)
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Post by Matthew the Swordsman on Feb 25, 2017 16:58:41 GMT
Ah yes, John Dickson Carr, I really should have known him, I've read enough of his novels under that name and of course under Carter Dickson. I'm a whodunnit addict. :-) I particularly liked his Henry Merrivale novels but I can't get them anywhere at the moment, at least not on audiobooks which these days I prefer (if it's well narrated). I've tried, as it must be 50 years since I read them. I have some Carr downloads. But that's off topic, as is this whole exchange. It's supposed to be about sexy monarchs. I dunno, as I said in a post above, our current queen was a tasty dish when she was young. :-) Regarding Elizabeth II, I recently watched a 1954 film called "The Queen in Australia", a feature-length documentary filmed in colour. She looked lovely in that 1950s colour film stock. It was also cool seeing 1950s Australia in colour.
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Post by tarathian123 on Feb 25, 2017 17:02:43 GMT
Thanks Wolf, I must try and get a copy. It could be on Youtube. I just realised that in a post above I referred to her as QE2, which of course is an ocean liner. I should have written ER2. Apologies ma'am! :-)
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Post by Matthew the Swordsman on Feb 25, 2017 17:13:21 GMT
Thanks Wolf, I must try and get a copy. It could be on Youtubes. I have it on DVD, but sadly it is a DVD-R. A few years later they did a short documentary about the visit of the Queen Mother (sadly I think this was in B&W), which I haven't seen yet. Australia in the 1950s produced few drama films, but did a good deal of documentaries. (not surprisingly, the few dramas produced come across as having been made by either documentary or newsreel makers, because they really were. Yes, I'm getting off topic on my own thread....but I have insomnia and I don't care).
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Post by tarathian123 on Feb 25, 2017 17:40:26 GMT
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bb15
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Post by bb15 on Feb 25, 2017 19:53:27 GMT
I confess to being a tad bemused by Americans in their regard to royalty. Many deride monarchy as being not perhaps finshed but certainly out of date, while others can't get enough of monarchy. What IS this fascination that Americans have with royalty. They seem to have far more obsession with monarchy than those (including myself) who actually live in a monarchy (constitutional or otherwise). Can someone please set me right on this? Several fine comments have already been made in reply to this post and I'll try not to repeat that information.
1. I'd say that for a person who is interested in history, looking at European/British history is a necessary area to explore. And in looking at the history of Europe (which includes Britain) being aware of monarchs becomes unavoidable. World War One, which the US participated in, led to the downfall of several European monarchies. Certain people then impersonated descendants of Russian royalty (which shows the psychological attraction of royalty). Some films have been done about the Russian royal family. 2. Fairy tales, which are disseminated through popular media such as Disney movies, include main characters who are part of royal families. The common story trope of marrying a prince for instance, leads to the need for a basic understanding of what royalty is about. - Grace Kelly marrying the Prince of Monaco became a real life enactment of that common fairy tale idea. This captured the imagination of much of the US public. 3. In the second half of the 20th century the survival of European royalty became intertwined with national crises. The abdication of Edward VIII for instance; The Monaco principality had to produce a male heir or it would be absorbed into the republic of France. There have been movements throughout the British Commonwealth for some nations to become republics, such as in Australia. And the removal of monarchs from several nations occurred in the second half of the 20th century (for instance with the family of the husband of Queen Elizabeth, Prince Phillip). - This imo has led to a reaction to emphasize the usefulness of monarchy. The glamorization of royals in the western media as a focus of the nation gives one reason for why monarchy should survive. Some royals have become massive celebrities. Royal charity work is emphasized to try to use royalty as role models. The tradition and pomp of royal events, especially weddings, are televised to large audiences. - All of this has captured the imagination of younger generations who are mostly more inclined to want to keep royals around. For instance I think now it would be on thinkable for the British to wish to become a republic or for France to want to depose the the principality of Monaco. 4. Finally, there is a clear connection between the US and the British aristocracy (and that of Monaco). Many US women have married into British aristocratic families. A novel written by Edith Wharton, "The Buccaneers" is about this topic. Edward VIII married an American. Winston Churchill, in his address to the US Congress during World War 2, emphasized that his mother was an American. Grace Kelly, an American, married the Prince of Monaco.
* For all of these reasons it is natural for many people in the US to have an interest in European/British royalty and for some to feel a special connection to the British - Monaco aristocracy.
Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by Nalkarj on Feb 25, 2017 21:13:25 GMT
Many thanks for your lengthy and erudite input. I certainly understand the American psyche towards royalty more than I did. No thanks necessary, I've been reading and writing on this stuff for years! (And I hope it also gave you another perspective on the limits to executive orders!)
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Post by tarathian123 on Feb 26, 2017 3:05:45 GMT
I have to wonder just how accurate some of the portraits of past royalty are, particularly in mediaeval times when the immediacy of the axe and the rack etc were ever present. It's well known that Shakespeare manipulated history somewhat in favour of his Tudor masters.
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Post by tarathian123 on Feb 26, 2017 12:34:01 GMT
This is a great point bb.
"O Kate, nice customs curtsy to great kings. Dear Kate, you and I cannot be confined within the weak list of a country's fashion: we are the makers of manners, Kate:...." [Henry V, Act 5, Scene 2]
One wonders how much the youngsters are influenced by the dress, protocol, and manners etc of royals. Not always good it must be said. But royals are only human too.
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Post by maya55555 on Mar 4, 2017 20:02:57 GMT
I am surprised that no one posted Cleopatra VII?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2017 3:45:19 GMT
Seriously, how could you really tell? When it was always in the artists best interest to paint a portrait that flattered over how they really looked. That pretty much eliminates everyone before the camera was invented. Queen of Bhutan, Jetsun Pema
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Post by bb15 on Mar 7, 2017 23:25:25 GMT
This is a great point bb. "O Kate, nice customs curtsy to great kings. Dear Kate, you and I cannot be confined within the weak list of a country's fashion: we are the makers of manners, Kate:...." [Henry V, Act 5, Scene 2] One wonders how much the youngsters are influenced by the dress, protocol, and manners etc of royals. Not always good it must be said. But royals are only human too. My view of the royal celebrity phenomenon and how it affects consumers of information (which includes fashion, and role models). - From one person's US perspective (in my perusal of the tabloids in many supermarket checkout areas), for decades there has always been at least one photograph and article about a royal. - The latest aristocratic star is Kate Middleton. She was a commoner. She's beautiful with a fashion model's poise and stature. She is a loving mother and wife. Obviously she's on the cover of these publications because the US public can't get enough of her. The consumer votes with their pocketbook and celebrity royalty is a perennial hit in terms of reader demand. - And this connection helps to foster the special relationship between Britain and the US which has benefited both countries for many years.
Imo at least, BB ;-)
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Post by itsmagic on Mar 8, 2017 3:44:53 GMT
thank you for reminding us of the gracious beauty of kate middleton. class, character and a loving mother.
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Post by tarathian123 on Mar 8, 2017 13:30:57 GMT
Bit of trivia about Kate.
I had an interesting discussion the other day when someone referred to ER 2 as the Queen Mother. She isn't of course. The last "queen mum" was of course the reigning queen's mother (consort to George VI, Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon) who has now sadly passed on.
A Queen Mother is specifically the biological mother of a reigning monarch, so it follows that a reigning queen can never become Queen Mother except if she abdicates in favour of her offspring.
Ergo unless ER 2 does indeed abdicate she will never be a queen mum as she'll be dead when her son Charles takes the throne. His ex-wife Princess Diana and mother to his heir (Prince William) is also dead (Camilla doesn't count), so the next possible Queen Mother will be Kate Middleton (Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge) when her son Prince George comes to the throne.
That's assuming that the monarchy survives that long. If it does I'll not be here to see it. :-)
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Post by politicidal on Mar 8, 2017 22:48:19 GMT
Nefertiti.
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Post by tarathian123 on Mar 9, 2017 17:20:15 GMT
Not being so inclined I'm personally not interested in sexy male monarchs, but there must be some that ladies find sexy. All the posts thus far have been about female monarchs.
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Post by Matthew the Swordsman on Mar 9, 2017 19:36:36 GMT
Not being so inclined I'm personally not interested in sexy male monarchs, but there must be some that ladies find sexy. All the posts thus far have been about female monarchs. I too was wondering where all the male monarchs were. Certainly there should be some worth mentioning.
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Post by louise on Mar 10, 2017 14:00:10 GMT
Don't think i ever found a monarch sexy that i can remember. But when I was young I had a big crush on Prince Rupert of the Rhine after seeing his picture in a history book. That's the only royal crush I've ever had.
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