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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 16:23:41 GMT
The interesting thing would be character dynamics, how different character grow together and compensate each other weaknesses. This is what good writing is about. Not so here, here we have one character written as a Mary Sue and the other as her inferior cheerleader demonstrating how great the Sue is: - Finn despite being a trained soldier cannot fly spaceships (Rey can like nobody before), cannot speak languages (Wookie, and droid please), cannot do repairs (No,no,no,no no!!!), cannot fight and must be saved all the time. - Or with Kylo, beating him numerous times untrained with Force skills and with the saber. - It's essentially the same with Han too, she shows him how his ship works and how it can be imroved, and can complete his sentences because she will inherit his captain position within a few hours, with Chewie as her copilot (though she never flew in outer space before). - And incredibly with Luke too: Rey beats him, the failed sinner, and steals the sacred texts from him so that she can be the new Master Jedi of the new Jedi order, despite being untrained with everything (Yoda and Luke approve). It's the worst, unplausibly amateurish MS writing ever!!! I mean I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all because Disney wanted to remake Star Wars Can't blame them, attempts to try something NEW with Star Wars failed thanks to Lucas. Wars isn't the kind of series that lends itself to a varied style of storytelling.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 2, 2018 16:40:42 GMT
I mean I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all because Disney wanted to remake Star Wars Can't blame them, attempts to try something NEW with Star Wars failed thanks to Lucas. Wars isn't the kind of series that lends itself to a varied style of storytelling. BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. The entire lore, before the Mouse showed up, lend it's self to variety of ways to tell a story in various genres. I can't believe you're going to defend Disney for being this lazy. They were given a golden IP endless possibilities. But paid J.J. Abrams to remake a new hope. I hope your trolling.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 2, 2018 16:47:37 GMT
I mean I hate to sound like a broken record but it's all because Disney wanted to remake Star Wars but rather than, you know, be up and front about it. They tried to do it in a way that they felt like it wouldn't piss off the die hard fans. The original characters were brought in to sell the film's, to get the fanboys, us, excited for it. Once we realized their true intentions we called them out on it. But of course the Disney shills, the hipsters and soyboys like Will Wheaton wanna play cheerleaders and defend this cancer that's killing the franchise. Episode 9 will probably be my last Star Wars film.Don't bother, Ep 9 might be the last Star Wars if the disillusionment of the fanbase continues to erode this rapidly, a franchise like this is nurtured by the built-in fanbase unless they build up a new one. I don't see SW becoming a big hit with women and children yet, the toy sales are alarming. Funny how quickly the wind changes, when TFA came out the haters were the minority, two years later the fanboys seem the minority. Ep 9' impact will be very exiting to see. I mean I finished the twilight film series. Might as well finish this trilogy.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 2, 2018 17:15:47 GMT
Don't bother, Ep 9 might be the last Star Wars if the disillusionment of the fanbase continues to erode this rapidly, a franchise like this is nurtured by the built-in fanbase unless they build up a new one. I don't see SW becoming a big hit with women and children yet, the toy sales are alarming. Funny how quickly the wind changes, when TFA came out the haters were the minority, two years later the fanboys seem the minority. Ep 9' impact will be very exiting to see. I mean I finished the twilight film series. Might as well finish this trilogy. Exactly. It's Twilight in Space. The other random "trilogies" sound less than worthless, though. There is no clearer, more explicit admission of cluelessness than, "We gave Rian Johnson *a* Star Wars trilogy!!!!!1" No thought to the premise. No reason, organic or even forced, narratively to have him make the movies. Nothing. Just: we're going to give this pretentious FUCKHEAD a billion dollars and hope you morons are dumb enough to give us back three billion in return. And you know what? They'll get it, because everyone is an idiot.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 2, 2018 18:56:27 GMT
Can't blame them, attempts to try something NEW with Star Wars failed thanks to Lucas. Wars isn't the kind of series that lends itself to a varied style of storytelling. BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. The entire lore, before the Mouse showed up, lend it's self to variety of ways to tell a story in various genres. The Prequels ruined Political storylines, stories about the New Republic and equal factions duking it out. They could've done something crazy like Force Ghosts rampaging around but I can see why they chose to safe route out.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 3, 2018 2:45:27 GMT
BULL. FUCKING. SHIT. The entire lore, before the Mouse showed up, lend it's self to variety of ways to tell a story in various genres. The Prequels ruined Political storylines, stories about the New Republic and equal factions duking it out. They could've done something crazy like Force Ghosts rampaging around but I can see why they chose to safe route out. Your idea... and I'm not being facetious... sounds absolutely retarded! Force ghosts rampaging around everywhere?!? Maybe some of them could get killed by lightsabers lying around right next to them! Or maybe the Force ghosts could pray to the helmets of dead Stormtroopers who never answer! Or maybe a Force ghost of a female padawan could defeat the entire Jedi council... because she has Disney magic and they only have the Force... oh, but it's the same thing. No wonder you like this Disney SW fanfic nonsense! LULZ
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Post by thenewnexus on Apr 3, 2018 3:28:37 GMT
What exactly did Disney do new? They rehashed ep 4. SW is a big universe they could of come up with an original story. Last Jedi is even worse.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 11:01:57 GMT
The Prequels ruined Political storylines, stories about the New Republic and equal factions duking it out. They could've done something crazy like Force Ghosts rampaging around but I can see why they chose to safe route out. No wonder you like this Disney SW fanfic nonsense! LULZ So a mystical story about angry Sith spirits rampaging around is bad, a story about a Neo-Empire rising to destroy the Republic is bad... ...I'm starting to think you're just unpleasable.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 11:02:33 GMT
What exactly did Disney do new? They rehashed ep 4. SW is a big universe they could of come up with an original story. Last Jedi is even worse. After all the damage the Prequels did, they needed to rebuild faith in the brand. Rehashing a beloved storyline did that.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 12:10:32 GMT
What exactly did Disney do new? They rehashed ep 4. SW is a big universe they could of come up with an original story. Last Jedi is even worse. After all the damage the Prequels did, they needed to rebuild faith in the brand. Rehashing a beloved storyline did that. Look at all the damage it did to TFA. It totally didn't make as much as it should have because the brand was damaged and no one had faith in it...The brand was healthy, they were just risk averse at the sake of writing a decent story.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 12:30:00 GMT
After all the damage the Prequels did, they needed to rebuild faith in the brand. Rehashing a beloved storyline did that. Look at all the damage it did to TFA. Not all that much, aside from OT Fans who were PO'ed at there being new characters who weren't shown as being nothing more than underlings to Han and Luke and Leia. It made a ton of cash and got great reviews, what do you want? It was, especially if you were going to be doing a new story about new characters.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 12:49:38 GMT
Look at all the damage it did to TFA. Not all that much, aside from OT Fans who were PO'ed at there being new characters who weren't shown as being nothing more than underlings to Han and Luke and Leia. It made a ton of cash and got great reviews, what do you want? It was, especially if you were going to be doing a new story about new characters. I was responding to your point. You're not even capable of following this conversation that was only 2 posts deep? It's like I keep forgetting you're a troll...
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 12:52:46 GMT
Not all that much, aside from OT Fans who were PO'ed at there being new characters who weren't shown as being nothing more than underlings to Han and Luke and Leia. It made a ton of cash and got great reviews, what do you want? It was, especially if you were going to be doing a new story about new characters. I was responding to your point. You're not even capable of following this conversation that was only 2 posts deep? It's like I keep forgetting you're a troll... And I'm responding to your point that TFA being more like ANH than the Prequels was a bad idea. Making the ST like the Prequels would've been the truly bad idea.
Especially seeing how OT fans were already getting ready to dislike the ST before it even started.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 13:02:05 GMT
I was responding to your point. You're not even capable of following this conversation that was only 2 posts deep? It's like I keep forgetting you're a troll... And I'm responding to your point that TFA being more like ANH than the Prequels was a bad idea. Making the ST like the Prequels would've been the truly bad idea.
Especially seeing how OT fans were already getting ready to dislike the ST before it even started.
Why is it only one or the other? They could literally write ANYTHING, and you think they were limited to two choices? Not black and white you say...? Slow down and read.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 3, 2018 13:13:07 GMT
I was responding to your point. You're not even capable of following this conversation that was only 2 posts deep? It's like I keep forgetting you're a troll... And I'm responding to your point that TFA being more like ANH than the Prequels was a bad idea. Making the ST like the Prequels would've been the truly bad idea.
Especially seeing how OT fans were already getting ready to dislike the ST before it even started.
Making ST like PT? How? By telling a new, or at least a different type of plot, for episode 7? You do realize that by turning episode 7 into episode 4 Disney just admitted to us that they had no plans outside of milking the original characters appearance and hope that the new characters would be likable. They don't care about the lore. As for the prequels, they were hated for various reasons, including the bad writing and acting.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 13:19:04 GMT
And I'm responding to your point that TFA being more like ANH than the Prequels was a bad idea. Making the ST like the Prequels would've been the truly bad idea.
Especially seeing how OT fans were already getting ready to dislike the ST before it even started.
Why is it only one or the other? They could literally write ANYTHING, and you think they were limited to two choices? After the Prequels, yes.
But let's deconstruct this shall we?
The OT ended on a note of finality, that "They all lived Happily Ever After, the end". That means that to properly preserve that, there could be no new conflicts within the lifetimes of the OT characters. So the ST should be set like 100 years later so we could have a new conflict proper. But this means that you're pissing off the OT fans who wanted to see Luke and co back. So the new conflict must be in their lifetimes, and thus the happy ending of the OT is now undone.
So you're screwed either way.
The OT actors are getting pretty old, so logically there should be new characters to take over from them. OT fans are disgusted with this very idea, which once again makes the ST a very hard sell. This has historical basis, as the Star Wars EU refused to have new characters take over for the OT characters and when other series tried the same thing (Star Trek) it was also met with HEAVY resistance. Anything the new ST characters do, it'll always be met with "Ugh, why can't they just have Han doing thing?" or "Luke would've handled this so much faster and better!"
The Prequels pretty much tainted the Universe trying anything similar, like having equal factions fight one another (The New Republic fighting off invaders from another Galaxy calling themselves the "First Order") so trying that is a guaranteed bomb.
To summarize, they can't do a story without the OT characters coming back, they can't do a proper "Pass the Torch" story because that's inherently repulsive, they can't have the bad guys be from another Galaxy or something like that...
...What CAN they do, exactly?
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 13:20:37 GMT
And I'm responding to your point that TFA being more like ANH than the Prequels was a bad idea. Making the ST like the Prequels would've been the truly bad idea.
Especially seeing how OT fans were already getting ready to dislike the ST before it even started.
Making ST like PT? How? By having there be a strong Republic under attack, a huge Jedi Order going around doing stuff, equal factions fighting instead of the OT's Underdog storyline, etc.
All Prequel Stuff, all hated.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 13:48:41 GMT
Why is it only one or the other? They could literally write ANYTHING, and you think they were limited to two choices? After the Prequels, yes.
But let's deconstruct this shall we?
The OT ended on a note of finality, that "They all lived Happily Ever After, the end". That means that to properly preserve that, there could be no new conflicts within the lifetimes of the OT characters. So the ST should be set like 100 years later so we could have a new conflict proper. But this means that you're pissing off the OT fans who wanted to see Luke and co back. So the new conflict must be in their lifetimes, and thus the happy ending of the OT is now undone.
So you're screwed either way.
The OT actors are getting pretty old, so logically there should be new characters to take over from them. OT fans are disgusted with this very idea, which once again makes the ST a very hard sell. This has historical basis, as the Star Wars EU refused to have new characters take over for the OT characters and when other series tried the same thing (Star Trek) it was also met with HEAVY resistance. Anything the new ST characters do, it'll always be met with "Ugh, why can't they just have Han doing thing?" or "Luke would've handled this so much faster and better!"
The Prequels pretty much tainted the Universe trying anything similar, like having equal factions fight one another (The New Republic fighting off invaders from another Galaxy calling themselves the "First Order") so trying that is a guaranteed bomb.
To summarize, they can't do a story without the OT characters coming back, they can't do a proper "Pass the Torch" story because that's inherently repulsive, they can't have the bad guys be from another Galaxy or something like that...
...What CAN they do, exactly?
OT Ended on the dethroning the Emperor and beginning to dismantle the Empire - note. That IN NO WAY implies a perfectly happy ending. They won a major battle. They decapitated the enemy. But the enemy has more than one head and there's no reason another power might not try and fight the rebellion for control. To summarize, you're blinded by your fixation on a very specific argument.
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ryboto
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Post by ryboto on Apr 3, 2018 13:51:41 GMT
By having there be a strong Republic under attack, a huge Jedi Order going around doing stuff, equal factions fighting instead of the OT's Underdog storyline, etc.
All Prequel Stuff, all hated.
I am still feeding your bullshit, but fine. Why would the Republic be strong in just 30 years? Why would the Jedi Order be strong in just 30 years? Luke barely establishes himself as a 'master' in ROTJ...it'd be potentially years before he'd start an academy. Not 'all prequel stuff' was hated. Besides, TLJ is now the most hated, so by your logic, they can't actually do anything anymore and any plot choice means it'll fail.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 3, 2018 14:15:26 GMT
After the Prequels, yes.
But let's deconstruct this shall we?
The OT ended on a note of finality, that "They all lived Happily Ever After, the end". That means that to properly preserve that, there could be no new conflicts within the lifetimes of the OT characters. So the ST should be set like 100 years later so we could have a new conflict proper. But this means that you're pissing off the OT fans who wanted to see Luke and co back. So the new conflict must be in their lifetimes, and thus the happy ending of the OT is now undone.
So you're screwed either way.
The OT actors are getting pretty old, so logically there should be new characters to take over from them. OT fans are disgusted with this very idea, which once again makes the ST a very hard sell. This has historical basis, as the Star Wars EU refused to have new characters take over for the OT characters and when other series tried the same thing (Star Trek) it was also met with HEAVY resistance. Anything the new ST characters do, it'll always be met with "Ugh, why can't they just have Han doing thing?" or "Luke would've handled this so much faster and better!"
The Prequels pretty much tainted the Universe trying anything similar, like having equal factions fight one another (The New Republic fighting off invaders from another Galaxy calling themselves the "First Order") so trying that is a guaranteed bomb.
To summarize, they can't do a story without the OT characters coming back, they can't do a proper "Pass the Torch" story because that's inherently repulsive, they can't have the bad guys be from another Galaxy or something like that...
...What CAN they do, exactly?
OT Ended on the dethroning the Emperor and beginning to dismantle the Empire - note. That IN NO WAY implies a perfectly happy ending. If that were true, then the EU Books wouldn't all end with every threat defeated and the OT characters always triumphant. The implication is clear, the story is done and the good guys won and the Empire is on the road to inevitable collapse and destruction. The ST screwed that all up by having there still be conflict 30 years later and gets derided for that. And yet the First Order gets derided. Implication being that there shouldn't BE any conflicts after the OT.
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