ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
Posts: 776
Likes: 724
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Post by ryboto on Apr 4, 2018 19:48:06 GMT
No, that's not what I mean. Stop rambling like an idiot. The OT characters were not written as people who would ever need replacing, so to maintain that the ST characters must either be useless or killed off ASAP otherwise they threaten the OT cast and the OT cast are no longer as awesome as they used to be. And no amount of reasoning from the writers could be enough to get the OT fan audience to accept that the OT cast could ever be in need of replacing if they're portrayed exactly they way they were in the OT. Idiot rambling. More of it! ramblerambleramble! It sucked, it still sucks, it'll continue to suck.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 1:33:16 GMT
The OT characters were not written as people who would ever need replacing, so to maintain that the ST characters must either be useless or killed off ASAP otherwise they threaten the OT cast and the OT cast are no longer as awesome as they used to be. And no amount of reasoning from the writers could be enough to get the OT fan audience to accept that the OT cast could ever be in need of replacing if they're portrayed exactly they way they were in the OT. Idiot rambling. More of it! ramblerambleramble! It sucked, it still sucks, it'll continue to suck. You're just proving my point over how the OT fans are incapable of accepting the OT characters being replaced.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 5:51:08 GMT
Idiot rambling. More of it! ramblerambleramble! It sucked, it still sucks, it'll continue to suck. You're just proving my point over how the OT fans are incapable of accepting the OT characters being replaced.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 5, 2018 11:11:50 GMT
Man this thread really escalated into something else...
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 11:57:14 GMT
You're just proving my point over how the OT fans are incapable of accepting the OT characters being replaced. If Luke had been written as the hero of TLJ with Rey sidelined, I doubt that score would've been less than 100%.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 12:04:02 GMT
If Luke had been written as the hero of TLJ with Rey sidelined, I doubt that score would've been less than 100%.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 12:59:24 GMT
If Luke had been written as the hero of TLJ with Rey sidelined, I doubt that score would've been less than 100%. You're just proving I'm right by using an image of a delusional man to represent yourself.
Abrams himself said that they had several script treatments with Luke around in TFA...none of them worked because the question was "Well, why do we need anyone else if we have Luke?"
These professional writers you yourself keep bringing up couldn't think of a way to get Rey and Luke to co-exist. Especially with how they made Luke into this incorruptible unbeatable superhero by ROTJ.
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ryboto
Sophomore
@ryboto
Posts: 776
Likes: 724
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Post by ryboto on Apr 5, 2018 16:55:26 GMT
You're just proving I'm right by using an image of a delusional man to represent yourself.
Abrams himself said that they had several script treatments with Luke around in TFA...none of them worked because the question was "Well, why do we need anyone else if we have Luke?"
These professional writers you yourself keep bringing up couldn't think of a way to get Rey and Luke to co-exist. Especially with how they made Luke into this incorruptible unbeatable superhero by ROTJ.
RAMBLERAMBLERAMBLE!
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 5, 2018 17:13:04 GMT
Man the sexual tension in this thread is great! Hopefully Waxer, Formersam and ryboto have a hot threesome!
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 17:47:34 GMT
Man the sexual tension in this thread is great! Hopefully Waxer, Formersam and ryboto have a hot threesome! LOL!
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 18:16:10 GMT
You're just proving I'm right by using an image of a delusional man to represent yourself. Nope! I'm proving that you seriously need a session with Bor Gullet! But it would do any good because after Bor Gullet squeezed all the SW lies out you there would be nothing left. You would be brain dead.[/quote] That's because Abrams, Kennedy, and those other writing idiots think exactly like you. You can have 2 Jedi (or more) in 1 scene and both of them be necessary. They did it all of the time in the prequels. It took at least 2 Jedi to stop Sith Lords. Even in ROTJ if it had just been Luke alone or Vader alone against the Emperor, then the Emperor never would've died. But no, these idiots think that way because they're so scared that Rey won't resonate with audiences as a competent heroine unless she's a MarySue. She always has to win in overpowered fashion. She can never need help in the slightest way. Other protagonists in the same setting as her have to look completely inept and incompetent. The fact is it's not necessary because some of the most popular SW protagonists of all time didn't need it.[/quote] That's because they're not professional quality writers. Most of them are fanfic writers who happen to be filmmakers. And nowadays that's sometimes regarded as the equivalent of writing credentials. It shouldn't be. He wasn't. He lost to the Emperor if you recall. But he sure wasn't anywhere near being a grumpy hermit slappy in search of a liquor bottle. Not even the same character. Even Mark Hamill said as much.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 18:39:32 GMT
That's because Abrams, Kennedy, and those other writing idiots think exactly like you. You can have 2 Jedi (or more) in 1 scene and both of them be necessary. Not when one of them is Luke Skywalker, who people have been waiting 30 years to see again. The less-than-beloved Prequels. And it took Kylo and Rey to get to Snoke. Not next to Luke Skywalker, she won't. There was already enough bitterness she was around at all. Except in TLJ, where she needed Kylo. Because they wanted to do stories about THEIR characters instead of just making everything about the OT crew again. Until his incorruptible pure pureness drove his father to suddenly decide to die a hero after decades as a villain. If it had been Rey in Luke's place it would just be another sign of her Sueness, by your logic. It's been 30 years, you expect him to be exactly 100% the same?
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 19:17:07 GMT
That's because Abrams, Kennedy, and those other writing idiots think exactly like you. You can have 2 Jedi (or more) in 1 scene and both of them be necessary. Not when one of them is Luke Skywalker, who people have been waiting 30 years to see again. Which were doing just as good as the sequel trilogy on the all time box office list during the time of their run. So your point is moot. Which only proves my point that it could've been done with Luke. There were no complaints about Rey until after plenty of people saw TFA. So the reason you claim was never the motive. The reason was that they wanted Rey to be a MarySue (so take Luke out of the movie). Then again in TLJ they wanted Rey to be a MarySue (so make Luke an inept hermit). More like they needed each other. They didn't have to desecrate the OT characters to accomplish that. That's just a fact. They wanted to turn SW into a Disney warrior princess tale. They don't care about the lore of the saga. And eventually they will pay a price for it at the box office. They're already paying a price for it in toy sales. Nope! You're not even following my logic. Lol. Did Luke lose? Did he need help?... So he's not the superhero like Rey is. And what incorruptible purity? Vader was already having a struggle of caring about Luke as a son. Luke sensed it. Luke pleaded to that side of him in a life-or-death situation, as anyone in that position would. I expect him to be the same person at the core. Anyone not an idiot would expect the same. If they were to do that to Rey's character you would be screaming at the top of your lungs and pissing in your pants! You know you would.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 19:39:26 GMT
Not when one of them is Luke Skywalker, who people have been waiting 30 years to see again. Please, you think OT fans would've been happy seeing their beloved Luke sharing any scenes with any ST characters where he's not clearly the focus on everything? Back before the brand was damaged by the entirety of the PT. No, OT fans would've insisted he do it alone with Rey as some damsel being held by Snoke and Kylo. So until they saw she was her own character instead of Luke's useless tagalong sidekick. Same way ANH eliminated Obi-Wan so Luke could be the hero? They needed to explain why the OT characters didn't have a fully armed Republic and why they hadn't already defeated the FO all on their own, because that's he kind of characters the OT made them out to be. The kind who could save the Galaxy all on their own and didn't need any help. And no explanation of why they couldn't do this before the ST started would be seen as anything BUT desecration. I'm saying you put Rey in Luke's position, instead of being okay with it the audience would just see it as another excuse to bash her as a Sue. That SHE could get Vader to willingly sacrifice himself while no one else could. No matter how absurd that sounds. The kind of person who would never need a replacement or a protégé or anything. The kind of person who'd mean the ST could never happen.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 20:50:43 GMT
Please, you think OT fans would've been happy seeing their beloved Luke sharing any scenes with any ST characters where he's not clearly the focus on everything? I've seen/heard OT fans say wouldn't it have been cool if Luke teamed up with Rey in forest against Kylo... so yes. You don't know OT fans at all. EVERYTHING that you say about them is a lie. You mean like the ST brand is ruining it right now. It is. Fanbase rejection. Box office dropoff. Toy sales plummeting. Nope! LIES! I've seen otherwise. Stop putting lies into OT fans mouths. Which proves that they didn't write Luke out of TFA because of what OT fans were saying. They did because they won't accept anything else but Rey being a MarySue who can't be allowed to share the spotlight. Wrong! ObiWan was eliminated because George Lucas didn't have anywhere to go with the character. He was originally supposed to spend time with Luke giving him more training in the Force on Yavin 4. Lucas realized that those scenes would probably get edited out anyway. Lucas didn't kill him off because he was afraid of ObiWan competing with Luke (like the Disney idiots). Nor did he write ObiWan to be some inept character that was embarrassing to his original characterization (like the Disney idiots). You obviously don't pay attention to what happens onscreen. You see what you want to see. It's not even worth my time elaborating where you're wrong about this.
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Apr 5, 2018 20:59:52 GMT
Having Finn an Imperial....I mean first order spy. When Rose, Finn and DJ arrive on the imperial/first order ship they're instantly captured with Finn revealing his true allegiance. He kills DJ and has Rose beg for her life before he ends it. Missed opportunity for a twist that would have probably pissed people off. And he could say "Hey man! I got five kids to feed."
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 21:27:55 GMT
I've seen/heard OT fans say wouldn't it have been cool if Luke teamed up with Rey in forest against Kylo Probably with him easily thrashing Kylo while Rey does nothing but get beat up. The ST has enough of its own fans it doesn't need the OT exclusive fans anymore. Both are doing fine. Prove it. No, they couldn't think of any reason for there to be Rey at all as long as Luke was around. Especially not superhero, incorruptible flawless Luke from the OT. He couldn't think of anything to do with the character, similar enough reason. Actually, compared to Prequel Obi-Wan the OT version was inept. That the OT ended with the hope of an era of permanent peace and no further conflicts or threats happening. Rey gets crap for stuff Luke wouldn't get crap for. Easy as that. You bring up how Luke was made inept. If he wasn't inept, the ST wouldn't have happened at all. A fully powered Republic and a fully powered Jedi Order would be in no danger from the First Order or any kind of Imperial Remnant. Especially not to the extent new characters would be needed to be the new leads.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Apr 5, 2018 23:08:10 GMT
I've seen/heard OT fans say wouldn't it have been cool if Luke teamed up with Rey in forest against Kylo does nothing but get beat up.The ST has enough of its own fans it doesn't need the OT exclusive fans anymore. Both are doing fine. Prove it. No, they couldn't think of any reason for there to be Rey at all as long as Luke was around. Especially not superhero, incorruptible flawless Luke from the OT. He couldn't think of anything to do with the character, similar enough reason. Actually, compared to Prequel Obi-Wan the OT version was inept. That the OT ended with the hope of an era of permanent peace and no further conflicts or threats happening. Rey gets crap for stuff Luke wouldn't get crap for. Easy as that. You bring up how Luke was made inept. If he wasn't inept, the ST wouldn't have happened at all. A fully powered Republic and a fully powered Jedi Order would be in no danger from the First Order or any kind of Imperial Remnant. Especially not to the extent new characters would be needed to be the new leads. LOL! So far you've proven absolutely nothing! And you're asking me to prove something?!? Laughable! Everything you said is the usual...
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 5, 2018 23:52:59 GMT
And you're asking me to prove something?!? Laughable! The burden of proof that they don't hate the ST characters for existing is on OT fans. You said there were fans who were fine with the idea of Luke and Rey co-existing without Rey getting sidelined, so prove it and prove that it's not really "Luke comes back and schools Rey or she becomes his incompetent sidekick or gets captured and has to be a damsel for Luke to rescue."
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 6, 2018 0:52:02 GMT
Having Finn an Imperial....I mean first order spy. When Rose, Finn and DJ arrive on the imperial/first order ship they're instantly captured with Finn revealing his true allegiance. He kills DJ and has Rose beg for her life before he ends it. Missed opportunity for a twist that would have probably pissed people off. And he could say "Hey man! I got five kids to feed." That's fucking stupid. Why would Finn have five kids?
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