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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 6, 2018 21:41:51 GMT
What Peter are you talking about? Why reveal he is Superman by putting on another persona? Why not "be himself" and then fly her out of there? Putting on another persona means he'd still be lying to her. Since when? Everyone publicly calls him Superman. And he lost sight of who he was. Farming after retiring from being Superman doesn't mean he's Clark. That's just how he grew up. He still flew around and lifted wooden beams as a Kryptonian. Peter Parker. He's not putting on a persona. He's shedding the bumbling reporter. Bingo, he lost sight of Clark. Meaning that totalitarian version of him isn't who he is. It's who he becomes if he's lost his way. Yes, it does mean that because he went on to do what he wants, and yes, he flew around and lifted wooden beams. Those are his powers. They are part of him. They are part of what they can do. But they are are not his personality. Clark is his personality. The farm boy who grew up in Kansas. I know that, but which one? And he's making himself look like Superman. Who he actually is. Not Clark. Clark is a persona. If he was being Clark he would do things as a human. It's not like he had to work on the farm to live or for someone else to live. He's doing it just to do it. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 6, 2018 22:04:54 GMT
Peter wasn't on that team. He took another person's spot to get down to DC. Even then he missed the competition. Peter was originally on the Academic Decathlon Team. He quit the team. Then he re-joined the team just in time for the trip to D.C. And he missed the competition because (as DHS and FBI would see it), <--Don't need this comma here he gave an explosive device to his best friend Ned to take into the Washington Monument to blow up the elevator so obviously Peter wouldn't want to show up for the team's trip to the Washington Monument when Peter knows that his best friend is going to blow up the elevator with an explosive device that Peter gave him. That's another reason why SMH is such a badly-written movie. DHS and FBI would've detained Ned for questioning until Ned gave up Peter as the guy to gave him the explosive device. Then DHS and FBI would've gotten a warrant to search Aunt May's apartment. You are comparing 2 different Peter Parkers. Not because of the universe they are in, but the time in their life. The Peter in Raimi's movies was in college and on his own. Homecoming's Peter is still living at home with May and in high school. That only means the jerk boss thing doesn't apply. But high school kids can have relationship problems like college students do. In Spider-Man 2, Petre's relationship with Mary Jane wasn't as close as what he wanted. In SMH, Peter not only gets invited to parties but also has a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl he has a crush on. And in Spider-Man 2, Peter was struggling to keep up his grades in school. In SMH, Peter is doing so well in school that he's on the Academic Decathlon Team. And in Spider-Man 2, Aunt May is struggling to pay the mortgage, which makes Peter worried and concerned as well. But in SMH, Aunt May gets free meals in restaurants. So my point still stands. Peter Parker in Spider-Man 2 has many of the same problems that most of us have experience at 1 time or another so we can empathize with Peter and root for Peter to succeed. Nut in SMH, life is perfect for Peter. No relationship problems. No problems trying to keep up in school. No financial problems for Aunt May. Life is perfect and Peter's only concern is how to impress Tony Stark. There's nothing hard about Peter's life in SMH and nothing that makes us want to root for Peter to succeed in SMH. So you are saying he was on the team and had to quit it and then rejoin the team to get to D.C. Is that what you are saying? Because that is what I said. That Peter wasn't on the team and he took someone else's spot to get to D.C. Was he on the team when they were about to go to D.C.? Nope. The coach wanted him back on the team, but he declined until he needed to be where they are going he asked to join the team. And wasn't Peter locked in a storage vault overnight? And calling it an explosive device is like calling a microwave an explosive device. It can explode is all. The boss, the landlord, teachers, other bosses. His relationship with Mary Jane didn't go how he wanted it because Spider-man kept getting in the way. That's the crux of 90% of his problems. That's why he couldn't keep his grades up in the Raimi movies. His teacher even says he's always exhausted. Notice when he stopped being Spider-man all his problems vanished. Peter has never had a problem with getting a girlfriend. It was with keeping one. Either they died or moved on from him because he was Spider-man. And Peter went through the same thing that a lot of guys go through, as a teen and as a adult. You like a girl and she might secretly like you also. Peter just stepped up and it paid off. Peter's grades had nothing to do with him being on that team. He's smart and the coach knows this. You watching the Raimi movies is what has your mind screwed up on who Peter Parker actually is. Peter's life is not perfect in Homecoming. No relationship problems? He finally got the nerve to ask his crush out (who secretly liked him) and she moves away. And he also had to ditch her at the dance. He has no problems at school (besides detention) because he stays at school. He's not skipping every class to be Spider-man. He can do that in college because they aren't going to call May. They'll just tell him he's going to fail. And wait... So Peter has to be a loser for you to root for him? What kind of problems do you have in your life? And again, Raimi's Peter isn't how he is in the comics. Yes, Spider-man gets in the way of his life, but not to the levels that Raimi had it. And I noticed that you derailed this from talking about how the DC characters aren't cinematic to trying to bash the MCU again. I won't respond to you out of topic after this. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 7, 2018 1:25:14 GMT
And as we saw in SM3, he had no problems getting his grades up AND being Spidey at the same time. Plus, a lot of his problems with MJ in SM2 would've been easily dealt with if he'd just been better at explaining why he was late for stuff like her play. But due to contrived stupidity he never bothered.
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 7, 2018 5:36:07 GMT
Peter was originally on the Academic Decathlon Team. He quit the team. Then he re-joined the team just in time for the trip to D.C. And he missed the competition because (as DHS and FBI would see it), <--Don't need this comma here he gave an explosive device to his best friend Ned to take into the Washington Monument to blow up the elevator so obviously Peter wouldn't want to show up for the team's trip to the Washington Monument when Peter knows that his best friend is going to blow up the elevator with an explosive device that Peter gave him. That's another reason why SMH is such a badly-written movie. DHS and FBI would've detained Ned for questioning until Ned gave up Peter as the guy to gave him the explosive device. Then DHS and FBI would've gotten a warrant to search Aunt May's apartment. That only means the jerk boss thing doesn't apply. But high school kids can have relationship problems like college students do. In Spider-Man 2, Petre's relationship with Mary Jane wasn't as close as what he wanted. In SMH, Peter not only gets invited to parties but also has a date to the Homecoming Dance with the girl he has a crush on. And in Spider-Man 2, Peter was struggling to keep up his grades in school. In SMH, Peter is doing so well in school that he's on the Academic Decathlon Team. And in Spider-Man 2, Aunt May is struggling to pay the mortgage, which makes Peter worried and concerned as well. But in SMH, Aunt May gets free meals in restaurants. So my point still stands. Peter Parker in Spider-Man 2 has many of the same problems that most of us have experience at 1 time or another so we can empathize with Peter and root for Peter to succeed. Nut in SMH, life is perfect for Peter. No relationship problems. No problems trying to keep up in school. No financial problems for Aunt May. Life is perfect and Peter's only concern is how to impress Tony Stark. There's nothing hard about Peter's life in SMH and nothing that makes us want to root for Peter to succeed in SMH. So you are saying he was on the team and had to quit it and then rejoin the team to get to D.C. Is that what you are saying? Because that is what I said. So you admit that Peter was on the team, which means that he had to be doing well in school and getting good grades, just like I said in my previous post. That Peter wasn't on the team and he took someone else's spot to get to D.C. Was he on the team when they were about to go to D.C.? Nope. The coach wanted him back on the team 1st, he was on the team before he quit so he had to be doing well in school and getting good grades, just like I said in my previous post. 2nd, he wasn't on the team when the trip to D.C. was planned because he quit the team, but the coach put him back on the team for the trip to D.C., which again means that he had to be doing well in school and getting good grades to be put back on the team, just like I said in my previous post. So you've just confirmed my point that Peter in SMH is doing well in school and getting good grades and doesn't have problems keeping up in school like Peter in Spider-Man 2 did. calling it an explosive device is like calling a microwave an explosive device. It can explode is all. A microwave doesn't cause an elevator to drop like that explosive device did. That explosive device blew out the elevator cable and caused the elevator to drop so calling it an explosive device is an accurate description. So Peter has to be a loser for you to root for him? Not a loser. But Peter in Spider-Man 2 is definitely an underdog who has been dealt a bad hand and most people can empathize with that and root for an underdog like Peter to succeed. Unlike Peter in SMH, who has been dealt a great hand. No problem keeping up in school. Gets invited to parties and has a date for the Homecoming Dance with a girl he's been crushing on. And Aunt May gets free meals in restaurants so Peter doesn't have to worry about how Aunt May is going to pay the mortgage/rent. SMH Peter is nothing but a shallow show-off whose only concern is trying to kiss Tony Stark's ass. There's nothing hard about Peter's life in SMH and nothing that makes us want to root for Peter to succeed in SMH. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 7, 2018 12:18:36 GMT
So you admit that Peter was on the team, which means that he had to be doing well in school and getting good grades, just like I said in my previous post. Peter's always been good at school and had good grades in the comics, so this was authentic. Same in the Raimi movies, in SM3 he was doing just fine once he stopped blaming Spider-Man for him not being competent enough to keep up. So SMH was being true to the comics. A microwave doesn't cause an elevator to drop like that explosive device did. That explosive device blew out the elevator cable and caused the elevator to drop so calling it an explosive device is an accurate description. Nah, it was an alien battery. Not a loser. But Peter in Spider-Man 2 is definitely an underdog who has been dealt a bad hand and most people can empathize with that and root for an underdog like Peter to succeed. And then we found out things weren't so bad in the first place and Peter was just being incompetent. He could've easily mended things with MJ or done better at school if he put the effort in, he was just blaming Spidey when he could've done better to begin with. Nah, he's just not an incompetent. Raimi's Peter had no problems in High School. True to the comics. Once May moved out of her house and to an apartment her money problems were gone, THIS May was smart enough to do that from the start. No, he was dealing with being part of a bigger world while Raimi's Spidey had it easy in that he was the only hero. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 7, 2018 13:14:43 GMT
So you admit that Peter was on the team, which means that he had to be doing well in school and getting good grades, just like I said in my previous post. Peter's always been good at school and had good grades in the comics, so this was authentic. Same in the Raimi movies, in SM3 he was doing just fine once he stopped blaming Spider-Man for him not being competent enough to keep up. So SMH was being true to the comics. A microwave doesn't cause an elevator to drop like that explosive device did. That explosive device blew out the elevator cable and caused the elevator to drop so calling it an explosive device is an accurate description. Nah, it was an alien battery. Not a loser. But Peter in Spider-Man 2 is definitely an underdog who has been dealt a bad hand and most people can empathize with that and root for an underdog like Peter to succeed. And then we found out things weren't so bad in the first place and Peter was just being incompetent. He could've easily mended things with MJ or done better at school if he put the effort in, he was just blaming Spidey when he could've done better to begin with. Nah, he's just not an incompetent. Raimi's Peter had no problems in High School. True to the comics. Once May moved out of her house and to an apartment her money problems were gone, THIS May was smart enough to do that from the start. No, he was dealing with being part of a bigger world while Raimi's Spidey had it easy in that he was the only hero. Um, wasn't me that said that. lol |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 7, 2018 14:34:30 GMT
Peter's always been good at school and had good grades in the comics, so this was authentic. Same in the Raimi movies, in SM3 he was doing just fine once he stopped blaming Spider-Man for him not being competent enough to keep up. So SMH was being true to the comics. Nah, it was an alien battery. And then we found out things weren't so bad in the first place and Peter was just being incompetent. He could've easily mended things with MJ or done better at school if he put the effort in, he was just blaming Spidey when he could've done better to begin with. Nah, he's just not an incompetent. Raimi's Peter had no problems in High School. True to the comics. Once May moved out of her house and to an apartment her money problems were gone, THIS May was smart enough to do that from the start. No, he was dealing with being part of a bigger world while Raimi's Spidey had it easy in that he was the only hero. Um, wasn't me that said that. lol How the heck did I accidentally have you as the one I was quoting/rebutting? Sorry. |
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 7, 2018 18:25:43 GMT
which blew out the elevator cable and caused the elevator to drop. Thus, it's accurate to call it an explosive device. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 7, 2018 18:28:37 GMT
which blew out the elevator cable and caused the elevator to drop. Alien stuff is alien stuff. Just like how the Kryptonian Ship could be used to make monsters, mainly because Superman was dumb enough to leave it there instead of taking it away. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 13:13:54 GMT
Peter Parker. He's not putting on a persona. He's shedding the bumbling reporter. Bingo, he lost sight of Clark. Meaning that totalitarian version of him isn't who he is. It's who he becomes if he's lost his way. Yes, it does mean that because he went on to do what he wants, and yes, he flew around and lifted wooden beams. Those are his powers. They are part of him. They are part of what they can do. But they are are not his personality. Clark is his personality. The farm boy who grew up in Kansas. I know that, but which one? And he's making himself look like Superman. Who he actually is. Not Clark. Clark is a persona. If he was being Clark he would do things as a human. It's not like he had to work on the farm to live or for someone else to live. He's doing it just to do it. The one that's bitten by a radioactive spider. He made himself look like a tyrant. Which is what he turned into. Nope. Clark is who he grew up as. The mild-mannered bumbling reporter is the persona. Like Bruce Wayne's billionaire playboy persona. Not at all. Since his powers are part of Clark. There's no reason not to use them. And that's exactly it. He's farming because he wants to. Since that's who he is. Clark, the farm boy. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 9, 2018 14:45:41 GMT
I know that, but which one? And he's making himself look like Superman. Who he actually is. Not Clark. Clark is a persona. If he was being Clark he would do things as a human. It's not like he had to work on the farm to live or for someone else to live. He's doing it just to do it. The one that's bitten by a radioactive spider. He made himself look like a tyrant. Which is what he turned into. Nope. Clark is who he grew up as. The mild-mannered bumbling reporter is the persona. Like Bruce Wayne's billionaire playboy persona. Not at all. Since his powers are part of Clark. There's no reason not to use them. And that's exactly it. He's farming because he wants to. Since that's who he is. Clark, the farm boy. There are lot's of versions of Spider-man. Which one? Because 616 Peter was never meek and timid. Growing up as someone and being someone is not the same thing. There are some versions of Superman that finds out who he really is before he becomes Superman. There are some that is more Clark because he didn't find out who he was until well after he became Superman. A lot of times, you can't even tell that he grew up on a farm because he's more of the city guy than country. Actually, yes. Because if he's creating a regular human farm as a Kryptonian he is lying to himself about who he is. Using his powers to pick up tractors and fly wood around, he might as well have the computer make a fully formed farm. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 15:39:50 GMT
The one that's bitten by a radioactive spider. He made himself look like a tyrant. Which is what he turned into. Nope. Clark is who he grew up as. The mild-mannered bumbling reporter is the persona. Like Bruce Wayne's billionaire playboy persona. Not at all. Since his powers are part of Clark. There's no reason not to use them. And that's exactly it. He's farming because he wants to. Since that's who he is. Clark, the farm boy. There are lot's of versions of Spider-man. Which one? Because 616 Peter was never meek and timid. Growing up as someone and being someone is not the same thing. There are some versions of Superman that finds out who he really is before he becomes Superman. There are some that is more Clark because he didn't find out who he was until well after he became Superman. A lot of times, you can't even tell that he grew up on a farm because he's more of the city guy than country. Actually, yes. Because if he's creating a regular human farm as a Kryptonian he is lying to himself about who he is. Using his powers to pick up tractors and fly wood around, he might as well have the computer make a fully formed farm. Then pick one of the many timid ones out there from various movies, animated series, and comics. Actually, no. He's not lying. He can enjoy what he does and do it in any manner he sees fit. That'd be like telling a farmer who grew up poor and did everything by hand, he's lying to himself if he starts using advanced farm equipment. And yes, there are many versions of Superman, but this topic began as a discussion that DC characters are just their powers. And that, as shown by the many versions of them, just isn't true. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 9, 2018 15:46:12 GMT
There are lot's of versions of Spider-man. Which one? Because 616 Peter was never meek and timid. Growing up as someone and being someone is not the same thing. There are some versions of Superman that finds out who he really is before he becomes Superman. There are some that is more Clark because he didn't find out who he was until well after he became Superman. A lot of times, you can't even tell that he grew up on a farm because he's more of the city guy than country. Actually, yes. Because if he's creating a regular human farm as a Kryptonian he is lying to himself about who he is. Using his powers to pick up tractors and fly wood around, he might as well have the computer make a fully formed farm. Then pick one of the many timid ones out there from various movies, animated series, and comics. Actually, no. He's not lying. He can enjoy what he does and do it in any manner he sees fit. That'd be like telling a farmer who grew up poor and did everything by hand, he's lying to himself if he starts using advanced farm equipment. And yes, there are many versions of Superman, but this topic began as a discussion that DC characters are just their powers. And that, as shown by the many versions of them, just isn't true. The only timid one was in the Raimi movies. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 16:38:56 GMT
Then pick one of the many timid ones out there from various movies, animated series, and comics. Actually, no. He's not lying. He can enjoy what he does and do it in any manner he sees fit. That'd be like telling a farmer who grew up poor and did everything by hand, he's lying to himself if he starts using advanced farm equipment. And yes, there are many versions of Superman, but this topic began as a discussion that DC characters are just their powers. And that, as shown by the many versions of them, just isn't true. The only timid one was in the Raimi movies. And animated series and silver age comics. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 16:44:33 GMT
The only timid one was in the Raimi movies. And animated series and silver age comics. In the original comics Peter was more a misanthrope than timid. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 9, 2018 17:06:55 GMT
The only timid one was in the Raimi movies. And animated series and silver age comics. Peter is more like he was in the Webb movies. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 18:17:39 GMT
And animated series and silver age comics. Peter is more like he was in the Webb movies. Not all of them. He was a skinny nerd. |
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Post by MCDemuth on Apr 9, 2018 18:29:46 GMT
He's a writer ffs, if he wants to see Aquaman take Aqualad fishing or whatever, pen it already. I completely agree... Take the Christopher Reeve Superman films... The first two films are generally considered great. The last two are generally considered bad... All four films featured the same exact same Character and Actor portrayal... Quit blaming the Characters, and put the blame squarely on the real problem... The writers! Maybe if there had been different writers, I might have liked "Man Of Steel" better. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 18:40:26 GMT
He's a writer ffs, if he wants to see Aquaman take Aqualad fishing or whatever, pen it already. I completely agree... Take the Christopher Reeve Superman films... The first two films are generally considered great. The last two are generally considered bad... All four films featured the same exact same Character and Actor portrayal... Quit blaming the Characters, and put the blame squarely on the real problem... The writers! Maybe if there had been different writers, I might have liked "Man Of Steel" better. Well, the thing is even the first two Reeves films aren't immune to this. The first one kind of gets a little TOO silly once Luthor shows up and the second one is plagued with characterization issues. They're just better in comparison to the latter 2. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 19:01:13 GMT
Even without the comparisons to the latter two, the first two were already considered good, if not great.
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