|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 19:05:06 GMT
Even without the comparisons to the latter two, the first two were already considered good, if not great. The first one is the only truly good one. The second has way too many characterization problems:
1) Superman gives up his powers to be with a nutbag like Kidder's Lois (this became worse when SMIII and Quest for Peace gave us much better love interests in Lana and Lacy).
2) Lois is more deranged here than she was in the first film, where she already came off a unbalanced.
3) She more or less tells him he may not be the man she loved anymore after he gets beat up by that Trucker.
4) He sadistically tortures Zod with a smile on his face.
5) He violates Lois' mind without her permission.
6) He goes back and beats up that Trucker even though he's got his powers back and the Trucker is no threat to him.
What a hero...
|
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 19:18:14 GMT
1) He's always liked her spunk even from the first movie.
2) Climbing the elevator? If the nuke goes off, there's no safe place anyway.
3) How so?
4) Not the first time Superman's enjoyed giving it to the villains. And wasn't the last.
5) Mind rape is definitely horrific.
6) Agreed. But the audience got a cathartic moment out of it.
He still is the greatest hero.
|
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 19:21:28 GMT
1) He's always liked her spunk even from the first movie. 2) Climbing the elevator? If the nuke goes off, there's no safe place anyway. 3) How so? 4) Not the first time Superman's enjoyed giving it to the villains. And wasn't the last. 5) Mind rape is definitely horrific. 6) Agreed. But the audience got a cathartic moment out of it. He still is the greatest hero. 1) There's spunk and there's nuttiness, like throwing herself out a window in the hopes that Superman will save her so she can get an interview.
2) I mean stuff like shooting Clark to prove he's Superman.
3) She says something like "I don't want a bodyguard, I want the man I fell in love with", which implies powerless Clark IS NOT that.
4) Still...look at DCEU Clark and the crap he got for Zod.
We agree on 5 and 6.
|
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 19:31:48 GMT
1) That was pretty nutty. But she was right. And it wasn't for an interview.
2) Outtakes from Donner's cut which wasn't in the original theatrical release that's looked on so fondly by audiences.
3) That doesn't imply that at all. She's saying she doesn't want someone who picks fights.
4) Those moments weren't earned.
|
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on Apr 9, 2018 20:19:46 GMT
6) Agreed. But the audience got a cathartic moment out of it. He beat up the trucker in the diner because the trucker was a bully and needed to be taught a lesson. Unlike the Avengers, Superman and the rest of the JL help the ordinary people that the Avengers consider too unimportant or too poor to afford the Avengers' "pay grade". Superman stops robbers, Barry Allen stops a armed robber in a grocery store, those are things the Avengers refuse to do because the ordinary people can't afford to pay the Avengers' "pay grade". The Avengers need to be paid a substantial fee for their services since they don't have regular jobs like the JL do. Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, Natasha Romanov, Clint Barton, Wanda Maximoff don't have regular jobs like Clark Kent, Diana Prince, and Barry Allen do. That's why the people need to meet a certain income/wealth level before the Avengers will help them because the Avengers need to make sure that they get paid for their services. He still is the greatest hero. Agreed. Superman is the most powerful person on Earth, but he doesn't want to rule over the Earth like Captain America does and instead respects the authority of the people and is willing to answer to the people. That's why he willingly surrendered himself to the military even though they had no power to force him to and why he appeared before a Congressional hearing when summoned even though Congress had no power to make him appear. Unlike Steve Rogers (who spit on the Constitution that he swore an oath to defend and betrayed the country that gave him his superpowers by giving him a super-PED even though he was too lzay to exercise and train like the other soldiers and who aids and abets a double-murderer to flee from the police) and Natasha Romanov (who told Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers are more powerful than the people so the Avengers are above the people's laws and don't have to respect the authority of the people or answer to the people for their crimes. |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 20:21:37 GMT
6) Agreed. But the audience got a cathartic moment out of it. He beat up the trucker in the diner because the trucker was a bully and needed to be taught a lesson. Unlike the Avengers, Superman and the rest of the JL help the ordinary people that the Avengers consider too unimportant or too poor to afford the Avengers' "pay grade". Superman stops robbers, Barry Allen stops a armed robber in a grocery store, those are things the Avengers refuse to do because the ordinary people can't afford to pay the Avengers' "pay grade". The Avengers need to be paid a substantial fee for their services since they don't have regular jobs like the JL do. Steve Rogers, Bruce Banner, Natasha Romanov, Clint Barton, Wanda Maximoff don't have regular jobs like Clark Kent, Diana Prince, and Barry Allen do. That's why the people need to meet a certain income/wealth level before the Avengers will help them because the Avengers need to make sure that they get paid for their services. He still is the greatest hero. Agreed. Superman is the most powerful person on Earth, but he doesn't want to rule over the Earth like Captain America does and instead respects the authority of the people and is willing to answer to the people. That's why he willingly surrendered himself to the military even though they had no power to force him to and why he appeared before a Congressional hearing when summoned even though Congress had no power to make him appear. Unlike Steve Rogers (who spit on the Constitution that he swore an oath to defend and betrayed the country that gave him his superpowers by giving him a super-PED even though he was too lzay to exercise and train like the other soldiers and who aids and abets a double-murderer to flee from the police) and Natasha Romanov (who told Congress that they can't arrest her because she's an Avenger and the Avengers are more powerful than the people so the Avengers are above the people's laws and don't have to respect the authority of the people or answer to the people for their crimes. no |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:51:36 GMT
6) Agreed. But the audience got a cathartic moment out of it. He beat up the trucker in the diner because the trucker was a bully and needed to be taught a lesson. That just makes Clark the bully. He beat up a helpless man. Thank the government for their restrictions. After all, the Avengers have rules they must obey while the JL are fine breaking laws all the time. They make themselves open to the public and sacrificed their personal lives to do so, unlike the Jl who think they can have their cake and eat it too. Batman in particular is the ultimate fascist, guy wants to rule society. Superman is the most powerful person on Earth, And has no problem thumbing his nose at the military like he did in MOS. Or in BvS before he decided to humor the government. You mean when he mocked them and humored them? If he'd known they were considering kryptonite weapons he'd never have shown up. A true public servant and a true hero. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:53:25 GMT
1) That was pretty nutty. But she was right. And it wasn't for an interview. 2) Outtakes from Donner's cut which wasn't in the original theatrical release that's looked on so fondly by audiences. 3) That doesn't imply that at all. She's saying she doesn't want someone who picks fights. 4) Those moments weren't earned. 1) Still, you get my point. 2) She's still an illiterate, chain smoking scatter brain and those Donner cut scenes make her even worse. 3) Are you so sure? 4) How? |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 20:57:19 GMT
1) That was pretty nutty. But she was right. And it wasn't for an interview. 2) Outtakes from Donner's cut which wasn't in the original theatrical release that's looked on so fondly by audiences. 3) That doesn't imply that at all. She's saying she doesn't want someone who picks fights. 4) Those moments weren't earned. 1) Still, you get my point. 2) She's still an illiterate, chain smoking scatter brain and those Donner cut scenes make her even worse. 3) Are you so sure? 4) How? 1) Indeed. 2) Hence why they were cut. Besides, b eing a bad speller is not being illiterate. And a lot of people chain smoked in the 70s. My dad did. Doesn't make him a bad person.
3) Yes.
4) They weren't paying off a build up. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 20:59:25 GMT
1) Still, you get my point. 2) She's still an illiterate, chain smoking scatter brain and those Donner cut scenes make her even worse. 3) Are you so sure? 4) How? 1) Indeed. 2) Hence why they were cut. Besides, b eing a bad speller is not being illiterate. And a lot of people chain smoked in the 70s. My dad did. Doesn't make him a bad person.
3) Yes.
4) They weren't paying off a build up. 1) Okay 2) Lois retroactively gets worse when we meet Lana and Lacy. 3) There's stuff from the comics that suggests she couldn't love a powerless Superman too. 4) Because they didn't explicitly tell us that Clark was against killing? |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 21:04:53 GMT
1) Indeed. 2) Hence why they were cut. Besides, b eing a bad speller is not being illiterate. And a lot of people chain smoked in the 70s. My dad did. Doesn't make him a bad person.
3) Yes.
4) They weren't paying off a build up. 1) Okay 2) Lois retroactively gets worse when we meet Lana and Lacy. 3) There's stuff from the comics that suggests she couldn't love a powerless Superman too. 4) Because they didn't explicitly tell us that Clark was against killing? 2) Retroaction doesn't affect how she was initially received. 3) Comics or movie? Plus, that's also not true as she accepted Clark's marriage proposal before he told her his secret, and she then married him when he was powerless. 4) Because Clark is raised by a man who teaches him not to value life. |
|
|
|
Post by formersamhmd on Apr 9, 2018 21:15:07 GMT
1) Okay 2) Lois retroactively gets worse when we meet Lana and Lacy. 3) There's stuff from the comics that suggests she couldn't love a powerless Superman too. 4) Because they didn't explicitly tell us that Clark was against killing? 2) Retroaction doesn't affect how she was initially received. 3) Comics or movie? Plus, that's also not true as she accepted Clark's marriage proposal before he told her his secret, and she then married him when he was powerless. 4) Because Clark is raised by a man who teaches him not to value life. 2) I know, but I had my problems with her right from the start. So when Lana and Lacy showed up all I could think "Why couldn't Clark smarten up and see how much better these women are?" 3) Both. One Elseworlds had Superman lose his powers, Lois then kicks him out because he wasn't "the man she loved" anymore and he ended up a drunken bum on the street. It was horrible. And the Silver Age comics had stories where Superman would lose his powers and when new heroes popped up to pick up the slack the people of Metropolis would mock Superman for being useless, forget about all the good he did, and then throw parades for the new heroes for merely doing stuff Superman always did and never got any thanks for. 4) I think people are a tad hard on DCEU Jonathan Kent. He was acting more believable for a guy in his situation. And when he said the "maybe" line his body language was clearly "My God, did I really just say that?" If Clark didn't believe in protecting life, he wouldn't have helped Lois in the Arctic or helped the guys on the Oil Platform. |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 9, 2018 21:20:51 GMT
2) Different tastes.
3) Well going by that, there are just as many stories where Lois still loves him regardless of whether he has powers or not. And as I said, in canon, she married him while he was powerless.
4) Would've been better if he actually said something to Clark. That and he then makes Clark and Martha stand by and watch him die. Clark may protect life, but it's not like he felt any strong value towards it to justify his reaction. As far as the movie demonstrated. Hence why it wasn't earned.
|
|
