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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:07:10 GMT
Exactly, she was his sidekick and not a proper independent protagonist. No-sa! Shows how little yousen knows bout da series. Ahsoka went on quite a few independent missions. Her actually saved Anakin's life far more times than him saved hers. And yet it was clear she was the inferior sidekick and Anakin and Obi-Wan were the real leads. Plus, she's exclusive to the PT era so there's less reason to dislike her because she's dead and in the past. And yet this is what Rey was expected to be. For the sheer gall of being a replacement hero for Luke. Make him a boring, generic badass, he gets complaints for being a badass. Make him not a badass, he gets complaints for not being a badass. You just can't win. You really can't. Give that to Rey, she just gets ripped apart even WORSE. Steve Trevor, compared to her. Yeah, and give Rey any explanation for not being an incompetent sidekick and she gets ripped into. And yes, Ares did act VERY stupidly in the final battle. And any explanation given why Rey isn't some incompetent sidekick would be derided. The thought of her being a replacement hero for Luke was just too disgusting. You bring up stuff about character arcs and competent enemies. Look at Batman's first Burton movie, he was totally competent the whole way from the start there and Joker was never a physical threat to him. And people LOVED that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:08:50 GMT
Dat makes no sense! Why would Disney be afraid to make one character an independent bad*$$ (Finn), but not another (Rey)? I dunno, best guess being that having both leads be stoic baddasses would get more complaints. Plus, Rey is the actual protagonist of these movies. Serves better to have a contract/foil. No-sa. People hated Jar Jar bein da tag-along to QuiGon and little Ani. Dat be yousen opinion of Luke Skywalker. Obviously an overwhelming number of people disagree with yousa. Da captain included. Da OT characters fit far less into archetypal molds than Disney characters do. Dats one of da reasons audiences found thems so original and charismatic. And what level of archetype thems do have is native to SW. Not shoehorned in from Disney or some other franchise.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:12:52 GMT
I dunno, best guess being that having both leads be stoic baddasses would get more complaints. Plus, Rey is the actual protagonist of these movies. Serves better to have a contract/foil. No-sa. People hated Jar Jar bein da tag-along to QuiGon and little Ani. So again, no win scenario. Of curse, there's some level of hypocrisy here as NO ONE had any problems with Korg in Thor Ragnarok despite him being not so different from Jar Jar. Not true, Han is the archetypal charming Rogue/Scoundrel and Luke is the archetypal Hero's Quest protagonist. Not any different from your accusation of Rey being a Disney Princess Warrior. None of this is exclusive to Star Wars.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:17:01 GMT
No-sa! Shows how little yousen knows bout da series. Ahsoka went on quite a few independent missions. Her actually saved Anakin's life far more times than him saved hers. And yet it was clear she was the inferior sidekick and Anakin and Obi-Wan were the real leads. Plus, she's exclusive to the PT era so there's less reason to dislike her because she's dead and in the past. And yet this is what Rey was expected to be. For the sheer gall of being a replacement hero for Luke. Make him a boring, generic badass, he gets complaints for being a badass. Make him not a badass, he gets complaints for not being a badass. You just can't win. You really can't. Give that to Rey, she just gets ripped apart even WORSE. Steve Trevor, compared to her. Yeah, and give Rey any explanation for not being an incompetent sidekick and she gets ripped into. And yes, Ares did act VERY stupidly in the final battle. And any explanation given why Rey isn't some incompetent sidekick would be derided. The thought of her being a replacement hero for Luke was just too disgusting. You bring up stuff about character arcs and competent enemies. Look at Batman's first Burton movie, he was totally competent the whole way from the start there and Joker was never a physical threat to him. And people LOVED that. No-sa! Yousen answers sounds like da opinions of a Porg on crack! Yousen got da brains of an inept male buffoon sidekick! No wonder yousen be liken thems so much!?! Yousa got da Captain bustin with laughter! Must be hard jobbin' coming up with answers this stupid. Lol
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:23:47 GMT
And yet it was clear she was the inferior sidekick and Anakin and Obi-Wan were the real leads. Plus, she's exclusive to the PT era so there's less reason to dislike her because she's dead and in the past. And yet this is what Rey was expected to be. For the sheer gall of being a replacement hero for Luke. Make him a boring, generic badass, he gets complaints for being a badass. Make him not a badass, he gets complaints for not being a badass. You just can't win. You really can't. Give that to Rey, she just gets ripped apart even WORSE. Steve Trevor, compared to her. Yeah, and give Rey any explanation for not being an incompetent sidekick and she gets ripped into. And yes, Ares did act VERY stupidly in the final battle. And any explanation given why Rey isn't some incompetent sidekick would be derided. The thought of her being a replacement hero for Luke was just too disgusting. You bring up stuff about character arcs and competent enemies. Look at Batman's first Burton movie, he was totally competent the whole way from the start there and Joker was never a physical threat to him. And people LOVED that. No-sa! Yousen answers sounds like da opinions of a Porg on crack! Yousen got da brains of an inept male buffoon sidekick! No wonder yousen be liken thems so much!?! Yousa got da Captain bustin with laughter! Must be hard jobbin' coming up with answers this stupid. Lol I'm just pointing out how much of a no-win scenario the entirely of the Sequels were in right from the start.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:24:08 GMT
No-sa. People hated Jar Jar bein da tag-along to QuiGon and little Ani. So again, no win scenario. Of curse, there's some level of hypocrisy here as NO ONE had any problems with Korg in Thor Ragnarok despite him being not so different from Jar Jar. Once again dat be yousen opinion. But anyone who thinks Luke is boring while thems finds Disney buffoons in SW appealing has an opinion not worth taking seriously. And weesa talkin bout SW anyway. Da versions of it is. And da point is what's native to SW. A Disney warrior princess is not.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:26:08 GMT
So again, no win scenario. Of curse, there's some level of hypocrisy here as NO ONE had any problems with Korg in Thor Ragnarok despite him being not so different from Jar Jar. Once again dat be yousen opinion. But anyone who thinks Luke is boring while thems finds Disney buffoons in SW appealing has an opinion not worth taking seriously. Oh right, forgot how untouchable the OT characters were... The only thing making them different is them being in space. That's all. ANY kind of warrior woman is, apparently...well, unless they're incompetent tagalong sidekicks who die off-screen and play no real important role in anything.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:27:59 GMT
No-sa! Yousen answers sounds like da opinions of a Porg on crack! Yousen got da brains of an inept male buffoon sidekick! No wonder yousen be liken thems so much!?! Yousa got da Captain bustin with laughter! Must be hard jobbin' coming up with answers this stupid. Lol I'm just pointing out how much of a no-win scenario the entirely of the Sequels were in right from the start. But it wasn't if da new major characters had fit naturally into da lore of SW. Rey and Finn didn't.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:30:03 GMT
I'm just pointing out how much of a no-win scenario the entirely of the Sequels were in right from the start. But it wasn't if da new major characters had fit naturally into da lore of SW. Rey and Finn didn't. The natural lore ended with the OT and it's "Happily Ever After" ending, any new characters introduced would not have fit...unless they made sure these new characters were incompetent underlings and sidekicks and most definitely NOT the new leads. Because there shouldn't be new leads. Only Luke, Han and Leia were worthy of being the ST's lead characters, because that's what the OT Lore says. The EU you'll probably bring up? It still has Luke, Han and Leia as the leads. None of the new characters introduced are anything more than just sidekicks and underlings who could take over as new leads.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:44:17 GMT
Once again dat be yousen opinion. But anyone who thinks Luke is boring while thems finds Disney buffoons in SW appealing has an opinion not worth taking seriously. Oh right, forgot how untouchable the OT characters were... If'n yousa thinks a Disney clown makes for a better character in SW than Luke does, then yousen opinion isn't worth takin seriously. Has nothing to do with so-called untouchableness. It'sa about yousen horrible taste in SW. Wrong-o. No-sa! Once again, wrong-o on yousen part to an embarrassing degree. Asajj Ventress proves yousen wrong. Sabine Wren proves yousen wrong. Bo-Katan Kryze proves yousen wrong. And Ahsoka sure had a warrior woman side to her, although it didn't totally embody her character.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 3:48:41 GMT
But it wasn't if da new major characters had fit naturally into da lore of SW. Rey and Finn didn't. The natural lore ended with the OT and it's "Happily Ever After" ending, any new characters introduced would not have fit...unless they made sure these new characters were incompetent underlings and sidekicks and most definitely NOT the new leads. Because there shouldn't be new leads. Only Luke, Han and Leia were worthy of being the ST's lead characters, because that's what the OT Lore says. The EU you'll probably bring up? It still has Luke, Han and Leia as the leads. None of the new characters introduced are anything more than just sidekicks and underlings who could take over as new leads. This'n is one of da stupidest and most inaccurate things yousa have said yet. If'n da natural lore and mythos is ended... If'n da nature and laws of da SW universe is changed, then it's not real SW anymore. It's just a fanfic knockoff. There be no way around arguing against dat fact.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:53:53 GMT
Oh right, forgot how untouchable the OT characters were... If'n yousa thinks a Disney clown makes for a better character in SW than Luke does, I'm not, but I'm saying that the new characters had their work cu out for them and had WAY More hate aimed at them to begin with compared to the OT cast. How? None are leads, none are alive. None dared to replace Luke. All things Rey IS, and thus gets hate for.
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Post by thenewnexus on Apr 8, 2018 3:57:44 GMT
Finn looks like he got treated better in Pacific rim 2. In the SW movies he is the ulitmate loser. Mace Windu and Lando were not weak cowards
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 3:57:57 GMT
The natural lore ended with the OT and it's "Happily Ever After" ending, any new characters introduced would not have fit...unless they made sure these new characters were incompetent underlings and sidekicks and most definitely NOT the new leads. Because there shouldn't be new leads. Only Luke, Han and Leia were worthy of being the ST's lead characters, because that's what the OT Lore says. The EU you'll probably bring up? It still has Luke, Han and Leia as the leads. None of the new characters introduced are anything more than just sidekicks and underlings who could take over as new leads. This'n is one of da stupidest and most inaccurate things yousa have said yet. If'n da natural lore and mythos is ended... If'n da nature and laws of da SW universe is changed, then it's not real SW anymore. Which is what the ST has been getting ever since it was announced. That it's not ST, it's all fanfic. Because it dared to come after the OT instead of being set before the OT the way the TV shows or the video games or Rogue One were. As fa as OT fans are concerned, it all ended with ROTJ (the EU is acceptable because it all ends happily ever after as all) and there could be nothing truly new afterwards. Especially not with new lead characters who were going to be independent characters instead of Luke and Hans' incompetent tagalong useless sidekicks.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 4:47:30 GMT
This'n is one of da stupidest and most inaccurate things yousa have said yet. If'n da natural lore and mythos is ended... If'n da nature and laws of da SW universe is changed, then it's not real SW anymore. Which is what the ST has been getting ever since it was announced. That it's not ST, it's all fanfic. Because it dared to come after the OT instead of being set before the OT the way the TV shows or the video games or Rogue One were. As fa as OT fans are concerned, it all ended with ROTJ (the EU is acceptable because it all ends happily ever after as all) and there could be nothing truly new afterwards. Especially not with new lead characters who were going to be independent characters instead of Luke and Hans' incompetent tagalong useless sidekicks. Wrong-o again. There be video games set during OT. And even after it. Some stories too. Yousa just admitted dat da ST doesn't harmonize with da universe of SW. Dats why it's rightly called fanfic. Yousa are da one tryin to make da ST untouchable apart from any of da OT characters and events tied to it. Dats why it is fanfic... at best it's Disney's version of a reboot with shoehorned in OT characters. But dat still makes it fanfic in connection with da SW universe.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 12:48:13 GMT
Wrong-o again. There be video games set during OT. And even after it. Never any real continuation stories, not ever. Because that Universe ended with the OT and there never would be a way to harmonize with it, not unless they made the new characters incompetent tagalong sidekicks and made clear there were never going to be any new conflicts. That's all the OT left us with. There's no way to do a continuation past the OT unless you just make it all about the OT characters again and always end things on a "Happily Ever After" note. IE, not bother doing any stories in the first damn place. I'm saying that introduce any new characters that aren't useless sidekicks/tagalongs and they'll be derided as fanfic characters, create any new conflicts and that messes up the OT's ending so that too is derided as fanfic. The ST can't win, it just can't.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 14:48:40 GMT
Wrong-o again. There be video games set during OT. And even after it. Never any real continuation stories, not ever. Wrong-o! Not true. No-sa! Not true. Dats just a big fat Gungan lie yousa tell yousen self to justify da unnecessary Disneyfication of SW; turnin it into crappy fanfic. Just a big fat Gungan lie Who-sa yousa thinkin yousa talkin to? Captain Tarpals don't fall for half-baked Jedi mind tricks!! Dat lie doesn't even have Jawa legs to stand on! Got Tarpals bustin with laughter!
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 15:05:59 GMT
Never any real continuation stories, not ever. Wrong-o! Not true. The only times the EU hint at a new conflict, it's always resolved and the OT cast are always the ones to do it. The only time they considered a "New Leads" storyline it was with Cade Skywalker, and that was a cop-out because they set it hundreds of years in the future after everyone was dead anyways. Prove it. Show me any stories where they kill off the OT characters and have new ones take over with minimal fuss. Someone who keeps saying it could be done differently, but can never give any examples.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2018 15:46:54 GMT
The only times the EU hint at a new conflict, it's always resolved and the OT cast are always the ones to do it. The only time they considered a "New Leads" storyline it was with Cade Skywalker, and that was a cop-out because they set it hundreds of years in the future after everyone was dead anyways. Wrong-o. It's not a cop out with Cade Skywalker. Stop putting disqualifiers on clear evidence to try makin yousa point seem valid. It isn't. Yousa don't have to kill off characters to advance a saga on to new characters. Only if it makes sense within da context of da saga. And da EU did advance and expand to new characters. Killing off characters for da sake of it is a cheap shock value trick to keep da audiences attention when it's not bein done with a good story and solid characters. Abrams does it all da time. Yousa already been given tons of examples in other threads from other posters. Even videos 1 and 2 in this'n poll thread are examples. Tarpals gonna give yousa medical advice now, okee-day? Yousa go right away and get doctors for yousen short-term memory loss. Yousen act like you been hit in da head with da booma!
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 8, 2018 16:57:01 GMT
The only times the EU hint at a new conflict, it's always resolved and the OT cast are always the ones to do it. The only time they considered a "New Leads" storyline it was with Cade Skywalker, and that was a cop-out because they set it hundreds of years in the future after everyone was dead anyways. Wrong-o. It's not a cop out with Cade Skywalker. It is, he's ages after the OT cast have died of old age and there's no "passing the torch". Do that in the movies and all you'd get is a bunch of pissed off OT fans who are upset they didn't get the OT cast back for a "passing the torch" story...which they'd have hated anyways if the new characters were independent leads instead of a bunch of incompetent sidekicks who are there to just make the OT cast look good. It never made them leads nor did it give them new conflicts they could be the heroes of instead of the OT cast overshadowing everything. And yes, with Star Wars they did have to get rid of the old cast otherwise anytime the new characters are doing anything the only reaction would be "Why is Rey fighting Kylo? It should be Luke doing it!" or "Why is Finn and/or Poe going off on this mission. Leia should be handling command and Han should be doing the grunt work!" As long as the OT cast was around, there was never going to be a reason for the new cast to exist in the first place. No, they just keep saying "This could've been done so much better" without any examples. The best one I got still made Rey someone who needed Han and Leia to hand her everything because otherwise she's too incompetent to get anything done on her own.
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