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Post by scabab on Apr 12, 2018 6:06:46 GMT
This whole time, the only Black Panther villain I ever could recall being as it was probably his main villain was Man Ape so here I was thinking when they make Black Panther 2 they gotta go with Man Ape. Turns out M'Baku was actually Man Ape.   Where's his bad ass costume? He looks nothing alike. He was barely even a villain, infact by the end he was a good guy helping Black Panther out. What are they ashamed of the comic or something? |
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 12, 2018 9:52:56 GMT
This whole time, the only Black Panther villain I ever could recall being as it was probably his main villain was Man Ape so here I was thinking when they make Black Panther 2 they gotta go with Man Ape. Turns out M'Baku was actually Man Ape. Where's his bad ass costume? He looks nothing alike. He was barely even a villain, infact by the end he was a good guy helping Black Panther out. What are they ashamed of the comic or something? One of the producers mentioned that they didn't have him dressed up in a gorilla suit because they felt like it would cause controversy. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 11:51:34 GMT
Calling a Black Guy an "Ape" wouldn't have gone over well, so they just used his real name.
It's like how in Dr Strange they kept calling Baron Mordo just "Mordo" or how they made Baron Zemo into "Colonel Zemo". Taking a somewhat obsolete part of the character and discarding it.
Anyways, in the comics he's also a racist caricature as well as a flat character. So I'm fine with giving him some nuance.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 12, 2018 12:05:32 GMT
I feel like a nerd for wanting to criticize you for not knowing Man-Ape's real name. Anyway I never felt like he was a racist caricature, but definitely more of a one-note character in the early days. I really enjoyed their take on the character in the film, looking forward to seeing more of him in the future.
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 12, 2018 14:46:58 GMT
This whole time, the only Black Panther villain I ever could recall being as it was probably his main villain was Man Ape so here I was thinking when they make Black Panther 2 they gotta go with Man Ape. Turns out M'Baku was actually Man Ape. Where's his bad ass costume? He looks nothing alike. He was barely even a villain, infact by the end he was a good guy helping Black Panther out. What are they ashamed of the comic or something? Yes, they were ashamed of the unfortunate racist implications of calling a black character "Ape." Good call on their part. The movie's version ended up being a highlight of the story. |
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Post by politicidal on Apr 12, 2018 15:44:13 GMT
Haha, yeah he was. Some are thinking he'll be the villain in part two, but I'd rather it be Nakia, since that relationship doesn't end well.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 16:01:14 GMT
This is super racist.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2018 16:07:50 GMT
This is super racist. |
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 12, 2018 16:25:01 GMT
What, the fact you're deleted?
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Post by scabab on Apr 12, 2018 17:31:55 GMT
Changing it because it's racist....
That seems a bit of a stretch. Black Panther has a few characters that are animal themed, M'Baku was based on a White Gorilla. There's a villain called White Wolf and Puma too.
They had Man Ape in the Disney Avengers cartoon. He's also in the Lego Marvel game that came out a few months back.
So how can it be considered racist for the movie but alright for kids material?
Even if they just called him M'Baku that would have been alright but they even changed him from being one of his main villains to a good guy.
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 18:09:39 GMT
So how can it be considered racist for the movie but alright for kids material? The cartoons didn't feature him very much. Just like 1 episode and they did their best to avoid calling him Man-Ape. Same reason they had Mordo start off as a good guy in Dr Strange. I don't see you complaining about that. We don't know how M'Baku's character will develop. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 12, 2018 18:22:33 GMT
Not a stretch at all to not want to call a black person an ape. White people tried it for decades as racial epithets.
Wolf and Puma were never used as derogatory terms against black people.
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Post by scabab on Apr 12, 2018 18:52:28 GMT
The cartoons didn't feature him very much. Just like 1 episode and they did their best to avoid calling him Man-Ape. The amount doesn't matter, they actually had him twice, a black man in a white gorilla costume in what is a fairly recent Disney cartoon made for children. There's a four minutes clip on YouTube and he refers to him as Man Ape in the first 15 seconds. So if it's ok for that then what it would have to do being racist for the movie? Baron Mordo started as a good guy but then by the end changed to become a bad guy which is what the character is known for and he'll surely appear as a villain in a later movie. M'Baku turned into an ally that saved his life. He's a good guy now even though he was a major antagonist in the comics. They changed his appearance and allegiance entirely. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Apr 12, 2018 18:56:03 GMT
The amount doesn't matter, they actually had him twice, a black man in a white gorilla costume in what is a fairly recent Disney cartoon made for children. There's a four minutes clip on YouTube and he refers to him as Man Ape in the first 15 seconds. And probably regretted it. That's why he was only in it for 2 episodes. Like I said, regret. How do you know that won't change later? He allied with T'Challa against Killmonger, how do we know they won't come to blows later over other stuff? |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 12, 2018 19:06:25 GMT
There's nothing racist about the character. They call him "great gorilla" in the movie so why would "ape" be any worse than that?
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 12, 2018 19:14:44 GMT
There's nothing racist about the character. They call him "great gorilla" in the movie so why would "ape" be any worse than that? The character's not racist. The connotations are. |
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Post by PreachCaleb on Apr 12, 2018 19:16:30 GMT
And for the better.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Apr 12, 2018 19:30:09 GMT
There's nothing racist about the character. They call him "great gorilla" in the movie so why would "ape" be any worse than that? And hell, his tribe hoots and hollers like apes in the film! That's their cultural tradition! They updated the costume (and persona for that matter) because it would've looked campy, not because they thought it was racist. I highly doubt people would've accused Ryan Coogler of racism against black people. |
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Post by scabab on Apr 12, 2018 19:37:42 GMT
And probably regretted it. That's why he was only in it for 2 episodes. That's based on nothing especially as the show was only 52 episodes to begin with and the show used many different villains. Plus again, they used Man Ape in the Lego Avengers game through the Black Panther DLC pack. Then again in Lego Marvel Superheroes 2. They already started him off as a minor antagonist and then turned ally. He was also made slightly humourous so they're not about to do another 180 by making him a serious main villain in a sequel at this point. There's nothing racist about the character. They call him "great gorilla" in the movie so why would "ape" be any worse than that? Did they? Yeah I don't see why it would have anything to do with race. Even if they didn't call him Man Ape they could have still given him the costume. Turns out he wore this mask.  So yeah there's a black man they refer to as Great Gorilla and wears a Gorilla mask and that's ok but it would be racist to call him Man Ape and wear a giant white gorilla costume? |
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Apr 12, 2018 19:52:18 GMT
There's nothing racist about the character. They call him "great gorilla" in the movie so why would "ape" be any worse than that? Did they? Yeah I don't see why it would have anything to do with race. Even if they didn't call him Man Ape they could have still given him the costume. Turns out he wore this mask. So yeah there's a black man they refer to as Great Gorilla and wears a Gorilla mask and that's ok but it would be racist to call him Man Ape and wear a giant white gorilla costume? Exactly. Also, how can it be RACIST when most of the characters of the same RACE are portrayed as intelligent, brave, caring and wise? This applies to both the movie and the comics. Lets remember what words mean. For something to be RACIST, it has to negatively portray the entire race or at least the vast majority. |
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