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Post by politicidal on Apr 22, 2018 1:00:23 GMT
It's a Screen Rant article that plays devil's advocate in regards to Infinity War's reception. And I don't want any derailment from the usual suspects on this thread. Even while sharing this article, I don't see Infinity War failing to meet expectations. Early buzz is extremely positive and let's face it, unlike DCEU films, that's an indicator of better reception once it's released for the MCU. But the thought entered my mind and brings back reminders of that threat by those alt-right trolls a while ago. TEXT: What if Infinity War’s MCU Payoff… Doesn’t Quite Pay Off?Inflated expectations, peer pressure, consensus bias, and half a dozen other social dynamics may add up to even a total failure of a film being seen as “good,” and nobody is expecting the Russos to deliver a poorly made film. That being said, the stakes couldn’t be higher come Infinity War. Not only for the characters, but for the filmmakers and producers promising that their “plan” has been building to this very showdown one step at a time… when fans know that’s not entirely accurate. We’re not referring to the existence of Thanos outside of the films (at least not after he was introduced in The Avengers). We’re not even referring to the fact that the Marvel movie timeline is broken and can’t be fixed. We’re referring to the seemingly unplanned demands of individual films, which fans have argued for some time now paint Thanos as an inconsistent schemer. Giving Loki, the literal god of tricks and mischief not one, but TWO Infinity Stones pivotal to Thanos’s conquest (the same amount he will have when he begins Infinity War) will be hard to ever convincingly explain. The same goes for sending Ronan to fetch the Power Stone in Guardians of the Galaxy. Theories can be spun to posit that Thanos was waiting for Earth to be weakest, but it’s easier to believe Marvel Studios didn’t have a clearly plotted, step by step roadmap – or if they did, they didn’t worry about the audience asking questions. Fans will forgive these plot holes or dangling plot threads because… that’s what fans do. But what if once the dust settles, Thanos suffers from the same villain problems Marvel has encountered so far? Yes, the filmmakers may claim that Thanos is complicated and relatable, and in a sense, the ‘star’ of the movie. But the same claims were made in the past only to fall just as short, leaving critics and fans to continue the debate concerning “Marvel’s Villain Problem.” An underwhelming villain may only be a dull or forgettable note in a two-hour movie. But unless the thirteenth or fourteenth time is the charm, there is a significant chance that Thanos will also turn out to be more ‘comic book villain’ than compelling antagonist with a persuasive mission of his own. Honestly, Thanos’s plan to murder half of all life in the universe makes it hard to imagine the audience will see things his way – no matter how tragic an origin story Marvel has given him. What If Thanos Is Just Another Marvel Movie Villain?Hopefully the writers, filmmakers, and cast will feel obligated to deliver a bigger, better, and more innovative and ambitious product than general audiences have demanded from Marvel until now. Hopefully, Thanos will live up to the hype. But with the MCU being built on the assertion that every individual threat, and every movie MacGuffin pales in comparison to the size and scope of Thanos… it’s hard to imagine he possibly CAN live up to those expectations. What if Thanos comes up short as just another Marvel villain – with better, stronger, more hero-killing powers? What if the questionable management of the Infinity Stones is never addressed, let alone believably explained? Both seem possible if not likely, since neither have cost Marvel with general audiences, critic review scores, or the movie industry press and blogosphere. Of course, that was after Marvel established their own goalposts as the release of Infinity War. The worst case scenario is that by stringing the threat of Thanos along for six years, and twelve MCU films, audiences will (rightfully) expect him to be worth the wait. By now the full debut of Thanos and the Infinity Stones will feel like a debt owed, or a years-long promise on which Marvel must finally make good. Needless to say, simply ‘giving the audience what they want’ may not be enough. Especially not for those fans who feel six times as long a wait demands six times the payoff. Maybe killing a number of beloved Avengers will do the trick, and make Thanos’s desire to conquer and remake the universe seem important or unique based purely on bodycount. And maybe Marvel can do the impossible and convince an audience to see things from the villain’s point of view, and that the death of trillions is actually the right thing to do. But assuming Thanos actually wins this battle and remains to be defeated – as most assume he will be – then the studio may have guaranteed a less-than-satisfying payoff. Those may have been swallowed in the past, excusable with the belief that it would all be worth it in the end. And that is the real problem fans may need to prepare for: Marvel must make Infinity War a greater payoff than any film has had to be. If they don’t, the amount of moviegoers willing to buy into another decade-long plan may also be cut in half when Thanos snaps his fingers. For the time being, better keep them crossed. screenrant.com/avengers-3-infinity-war-disappointing-bad/2/
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Post by DC-Fan on Apr 22, 2018 1:18:17 GMT
It's a Screen Rant article that plays devil's advocate in regards to Infinity War's reception. And I don't want any derailment from the usual suspects on this thread. Even while sharing this article, I don't see Infinity War failing to meet expectations. Early buzz is extremely positive and let's face it, unlike DCEU films, that's an indicator of better reception once it's released for the MCU. But the thought entered my mind and brings back reminders of that threat by those alt-right trolls a while ago. TEXT: What if Infinity War’s MCU Payoff… Doesn’t Quite Pay Off?Inflated expectations, peer pressure, consensus bias, and half a dozen other social dynamics may add up to even a total failure of a film being seen as “good,” and nobody is expecting the Russos to deliver a poorly made film. That being said, the stakes couldn’t be higher come Infinity War. Not only for the characters, but for the filmmakers and producers promising that their “plan” has been building to this very showdown one step at a time… when fans know that’s not entirely accurate. We’re not referring to the existence of Thanos outside of the films (at least not after he was introduced in The Avengers). We’re not even referring to the fact that the Marvel movie timeline is broken and can’t be fixed. We’re referring to the seemingly unplanned demands of individual films, which fans have argued for some time now paint Thanos as an inconsistent schemer. Giving Loki, the literal god of tricks and mischief not one, but TWO Infinity Stones pivotal to Thanos’s conquest (the same amount he will have when he begins Infinity War) will be hard to ever convincingly explain. The same goes for sending Ronan to fetch the Power Stone in Guardians of the Galaxy. Theories can be spun to posit that Thanos was waiting for Earth to be weakest, but it’s easier to believe Marvel Studios didn’t have a clearly plotted, step by step roadmap – or if they did, they didn’t worry about the audience asking questions. Fans will forgive these plot holes or dangling plot threads because… that’s what fans do. But what if once the dust settles, Thanos suffers from the same villain problems Marvel has encountered so far? Yes, the filmmakers may claim that Thanos is complicated and relatable, and in a sense, the ‘star’ of the movie. But the same claims were made in the past only to fall just as short, leaving critics and fans to continue the debate concerning “Marvel’s Villain Problem.” An underwhelming villain may only be a dull or forgettable note in a two-hour movie. But unless the thirteenth or fourteenth time is the charm, there is a significant chance that Thanos will also turn out to be more ‘comic book villain’ than compelling antagonist with a persuasive mission of his own. Honestly, Thanos’s plan to murder half of all life in the universe makes it hard to imagine the audience will see things his way – no matter how tragic an origin story Marvel has given him. What If Thanos Is Just Another Marvel Movie Villain?Hopefully the writers, filmmakers, and cast will feel obligated to deliver a bigger, better, and more innovative and ambitious product than general audiences have demanded from Marvel until now. Hopefully, Thanos will live up to the hype. But with the MCU being built on the assertion that every individual threat, and every movie MacGuffin pales in comparison to the size and scope of Thanos… it’s hard to imagine he possibly CAN live up to those expectations. What if Thanos comes up short as just another Marvel villain – with better, stronger, more hero-killing powers? What if the questionable management of the Infinity Stones is never addressed, let alone believably explained? Both seem possible if not likely, since neither have cost Marvel with general audiences, critic review scores, or the movie industry press and blogosphere. Of course, that was after Marvel established their own goalposts as the release of Infinity War. The worst case scenario is that by stringing the threat of Thanos along for six years, and twelve MCU films, audiences will (rightfully) expect him to be worth the wait. By now the full debut of Thanos and the Infinity Stones will feel like a debt owed, or a years-long promise on which Marvel must finally make good. Needless to say, simply ‘giving the audience what they want’ may not be enough. Especially not for those fans who feel six times as long a wait demands six times the payoff. Maybe killing a number of beloved Avengers will do the trick, and make Thanos’s desire to conquer and remake the universe seem important or unique based purely on bodycount. And maybe Marvel can do the impossible and convince an audience to see things from the villain’s point of view, and that the death of trillions is actually the right thing to do. But assuming Thanos actually wins this battle and remains to be defeated – as most assume he will be – then the studio may have guaranteed a less-than-satisfying payoff. Those may have been swallowed in the past, excusable with the belief that it would all be worth it in the end. And that is the real problem fans may need to prepare for: Marvel must make Infinity War a greater payoff than any film has had to be. If they don’t, the amount of moviegoers willing to buy into another decade-long plan may also be cut in half when Thanos snaps his fingers. For the time being, better keep them crossed. screenrant.com/avengers-3-infinity-war-disappointing-bad/2/Sounds like IW is going to be MCU's version of TLJ.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2018 1:25:17 GMT
It's a Screen Rant article that plays devil's advocate in regards to Infinity War's reception. And I don't want any derailment from the usual suspects on this thread. Even while sharing this article, I don't see Infinity War failing to meet expectations. Early buzz is extremely positive and let's face it, unlike DCEU films, that's an indicator of better reception once it's released for the MCU. But the thought entered my mind and brings back reminders of that threat by those alt-right trolls a while ago. TEXT: What if Infinity War’s MCU Payoff… Doesn’t Quite Pay Off?Inflated expectations, peer pressure, consensus bias, and half a dozen other social dynamics may add up to even a total failure of a film being seen as “good,” and nobody is expecting the Russos to deliver a poorly made film. That being said, the stakes couldn’t be higher come Infinity War. Not only for the characters, but for the filmmakers and producers promising that their “plan” has been building to this very showdown one step at a time… when fans know that’s not entirely accurate. We’re not referring to the existence of Thanos outside of the films (at least not after he was introduced in The Avengers). We’re not even referring to the fact that the Marvel movie timeline is broken and can’t be fixed. We’re referring to the seemingly unplanned demands of individual films, which fans have argued for some time now paint Thanos as an inconsistent schemer. Giving Loki, the literal god of tricks and mischief not one, but TWO Infinity Stones pivotal to Thanos’s conquest (the same amount he will have when he begins Infinity War) will be hard to ever convincingly explain. The same goes for sending Ronan to fetch the Power Stone in Guardians of the Galaxy. Theories can be spun to posit that Thanos was waiting for Earth to be weakest, but it’s easier to believe Marvel Studios didn’t have a clearly plotted, step by step roadmap – or if they did, they didn’t worry about the audience asking questions. Fans will forgive these plot holes or dangling plot threads because… that’s what fans do. But what if once the dust settles, Thanos suffers from the same villain problems Marvel has encountered so far? Yes, the filmmakers may claim that Thanos is complicated and relatable, and in a sense, the ‘star’ of the movie. But the same claims were made in the past only to fall just as short, leaving critics and fans to continue the debate concerning “Marvel’s Villain Problem.” An underwhelming villain may only be a dull or forgettable note in a two-hour movie. But unless the thirteenth or fourteenth time is the charm, there is a significant chance that Thanos will also turn out to be more ‘comic book villain’ than compelling antagonist with a persuasive mission of his own. Honestly, Thanos’s plan to murder half of all life in the universe makes it hard to imagine the audience will see things his way – no matter how tragic an origin story Marvel has given him. What If Thanos Is Just Another Marvel Movie Villain?Hopefully the writers, filmmakers, and cast will feel obligated to deliver a bigger, better, and more innovative and ambitious product than general audiences have demanded from Marvel until now. Hopefully, Thanos will live up to the hype. But with the MCU being built on the assertion that every individual threat, and every movie MacGuffin pales in comparison to the size and scope of Thanos… it’s hard to imagine he possibly CAN live up to those expectations. What if Thanos comes up short as just another Marvel villain – with better, stronger, more hero-killing powers? What if the questionable management of the Infinity Stones is never addressed, let alone believably explained? Both seem possible if not likely, since neither have cost Marvel with general audiences, critic review scores, or the movie industry press and blogosphere. Of course, that was after Marvel established their own goalposts as the release of Infinity War. The worst case scenario is that by stringing the threat of Thanos along for six years, and twelve MCU films, audiences will (rightfully) expect him to be worth the wait. By now the full debut of Thanos and the Infinity Stones will feel like a debt owed, or a years-long promise on which Marvel must finally make good. Needless to say, simply ‘giving the audience what they want’ may not be enough. Especially not for those fans who feel six times as long a wait demands six times the payoff. Maybe killing a number of beloved Avengers will do the trick, and make Thanos’s desire to conquer and remake the universe seem important or unique based purely on bodycount. And maybe Marvel can do the impossible and convince an audience to see things from the villain’s point of view, and that the death of trillions is actually the right thing to do. But assuming Thanos actually wins this battle and remains to be defeated – as most assume he will be – then the studio may have guaranteed a less-than-satisfying payoff. Those may have been swallowed in the past, excusable with the belief that it would all be worth it in the end. And that is the real problem fans may need to prepare for: Marvel must make Infinity War a greater payoff than any film has had to be. If they don’t, the amount of moviegoers willing to buy into another decade-long plan may also be cut in half when Thanos snaps his fingers. For the time being, better keep them crossed. screenrant.com/avengers-3-infinity-war-disappointing-bad/2/Sounds like IW is going to be MCU's version of TLJ. In two parts!
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Post by hobowar on Apr 22, 2018 1:45:35 GMT
Marvel do villains better than anyone in my opinion.
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Post by damngumby on Apr 22, 2018 2:21:58 GMT
Marvel do villains better than anyone in my opinion. I think the primary criticism of the MCU villains is that they aren’t a principal reason the movies are viewed so favorably. Those films strengths lie elsewhere. However, if you compare MCU villains against the villains from competing superhero franchises, like DCEU and X-Men, they stack up quite well. The real danger with Infinity Wars is that Thanos will be just another lame CGI villain with delusions of grandeur, like Steppenwolf in Justice League. If they can make him a legit character, they’ll be one up on everyone else. If not, then we better hope the film’s strengths lie elsewhere.
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Post by scabab on Apr 22, 2018 5:47:58 GMT
Hopefully they do something good with Thanks especially as he's going to be a back to back villain. He can't avoid to be forgettable.
I don't hold the villains are slowly improving though. Between Ego, Vulture and Killmonger that's been three good villains out the last four and Hela wasn't too bad either.
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Post by sdrew13163 on Apr 22, 2018 6:51:05 GMT
Sounds like IW is going to be MCU's version of TLJ. It honestly could be. I wouldn't be all that surprised. From the little amount of marketing I've seen, there almost feels like there's just something "off" about the whole movie. Almost like it could just end up being a very long and complex trailer for the next phase. I would even go as far as to say it's semi-worrying. Now, part of that could be due to the fact that they have apparently been filming fake scenes to put in the marketing in order to fake us all out. I would assume that those scenes used in the marketing but not in the movie itself would look a little less polished and complete, so maybe that's part of it. Still, I'm a little cautious about this movie right now.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Apr 22, 2018 9:28:19 GMT
I agree with with DC-Fan, which is a surprise but a welcome one. But yeah with how much hype and expectations that a lot of fans have for this film, it could very well turned into Marvel's equivalent of The Last Jedi. We also could have a similar controversy that X-Men 3 had when it killed off several fan favorites. Honestly I personally hope that the film is better than Age of Ultron. If the Russo Brothers can deliver a better Avengers film than Joss Whedon previous film, I'll be happy.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 22, 2018 13:14:01 GMT
I agree with with DC-Fan , which is a surprise but a welcome one. But yeah with how much hype and expectations that a lot of fans have for this film, it could very well turned into Marvel's equivalent of The Last Jedi. We also could have a similar controversy that X-Men 3 had when it killed off several fan favorites. Honestly I personally hope that the film is better than Age of Ultron. If the Russo Brothers can deliver a better Avengers film than Joss Whedon previous film, I'll be happy. This was really one of the only problems with TLJ. Countless fan theories that wanted the movie to go a certain way hurt the movie. When they didn't get that, people deemed it a bad movie. That might hurt Infinity War because there are a lot of fan theories on this movie. One of the biggest is where the soul stone is. From set photos of Avengers 4, I'm thinking it or even IW might be a sort of soft reboot. A change in the timeline. So even if they kill off fan favorites, I don't think they will stay dead.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2018 13:45:34 GMT
Marvel do villains better than anyone in my opinion. I think the primary criticism of the MCU villains is that they aren’t a principal reason the movies are viewed so favorably. Those films strengths lie elsewhere. However, if you compare MCU villains against the villains from competing superhero franchises, like DCEU and X-Men, they stack up quite well. The real danger with Infinity Wars is that Thanos will be just another lame CGI villain with delusions of grandeur, like Steppenwolf in Justice League. If they can make him a legit character, they’ll be one up on everyone else. If not, then we better hope the film’s strengths lie elsewhere. So basically you're trying to say you like the MCU because it doesn't "make the villains the stars"? And that the films are wondrous? And that you can only even conceive of any aspect of it (Thanos) being lame through the reference point of unnecessarily insulting a DCEU character to incite strife and otherwise cause problems even though that's not relevant? Now, where have I heard all of that before?
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 22, 2018 13:45:40 GMT
I still think the comedy issue is the big risk. The Iron Man/ Doctor Strange scene we saw was a bit worrying.
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Post by charzhino on Apr 22, 2018 13:49:25 GMT
If the film disappoints it will be because of pacing imo. Age of ultron is the best example to compare. It was the most eagerly anticipated movie in the MCU to date, coming after the massive success of The Avengers but failed to get close it its predecessor. Mainly because it felt rushed. The story jumps from place to place without any real smoothness which follows a really predictable pattern. I remember becoming really bored around the time when Cap is fighting Ultron on the highway in South Korea. The film just felt recycled, big action set piece followed by another without any rest, its hard to describe. The Avengers did it well because there was only 1 action sequence with the Hulk on Helicarrier and the rest was all saved until the last 40 minutes.
With IW, I just hope we dont see the Ultron mistake recreated, where they are jumping from 1 location to the next whilst having semi-big CGI fights constantly. Given its the longest MCU movie as well, if that formula happens its gonna drag.
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Post by poelzig on Apr 22, 2018 14:12:23 GMT
Marvel do villains better than anyone in my opinion. There are villains in mcu movies? Huh? I've never noticed.
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Post by Power Ranger on Apr 22, 2018 14:32:56 GMT
If the film disappoints it will be because of pacing imo. Age of ultron is the best example to compare. It was the most eagerly anticipated movie in the MCU to date, coming after the massive success of The Avengers but failed to get close it its predecessor. Mainly because it felt rushed. The story jumps from place to place without any real smoothness which follows a really predictable pattern. I remember becoming really bored around the time when Cap is fighting Ultron on the highway in South Korea. The film just felt recycled, big action set piece followed by another without any rest, its hard to describe. The Avengers did it well because there was only 1 action sequence with the Hulk on Helicarrier and the rest was all saved until the last 40 minutes. With IW, I just hope we dont see the Ultron mistake recreated, where they are jumping from 1 location to the next whilst having semi-big CGI fights constantly. Given its the longest MCU movie as well, if that formula happens its gonna drag. At least with the action it’s not just one single big bad villain with countless drones. Thanos has some henchmen in this which will make it less monotonous.
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Post by ThatGuy on Apr 22, 2018 14:43:06 GMT
I think the primary criticism of the MCU villains is that they aren’t a principal reason the movies are viewed so favorably. Those films strengths lie elsewhere. However, if you compare MCU villains against the villains from competing superhero franchises, like DCEU and X-Men, they stack up quite well. The real danger with Infinity Wars is that Thanos will be just another lame CGI villain with delusions of grandeur, like Steppenwolf in Justice League. If they can make him a legit character, they’ll be one up on everyone else. If not, then we better hope the film’s strengths lie elsewhere. So basically you're trying to say you like the MCU because it doesn't "make the villains the stars"? And that the films are wondrous? And that you can only even conceive of any aspect of it (Thanos) being lame through the reference point of unnecessarily insulting a DCEU character to incite strife and otherwise cause problems even though that's not relevant? Now, where have I heard all of that before? You have it bad. You gonna be talking about Sam for how long? You should see if scabab can get him back. Seems you really miss him.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2018 14:55:07 GMT
So basically you're trying to say you like the MCU because it doesn't "make the villains the stars"? And that the films are wondrous? And that you can only even conceive of any aspect of it (Thanos) being lame through the reference point of unnecessarily insulting a DCEU character to incite strife and otherwise cause problems even though that's not relevant? Now, where have I heard all of that before? You have it bad. You gonna be talking about Sam for how long? You should see if scabab can get him back. Seems you really miss him. Nah, I'm just unashamed of how wondrous the place is now that he's been banished forever.
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Post by damngumby on Apr 22, 2018 15:07:49 GMT
I think the primary criticism of the MCU villains is that they aren’t a principal reason the movies are viewed so favorably. Those films strengths lie elsewhere. However, if you compare MCU villains against the villains from competing superhero franchises, like DCEU and X-Men, they stack up quite well. The real danger with Infinity Wars is that Thanos will be just another lame CGI villain with delusions of grandeur, like Steppenwolf in Justice League. If they can make him a legit character, they’ll be one up on everyone else. If not, then we better hope the film’s strengths lie elsewhere. So basically ... Everything after that ... is wrong.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Apr 22, 2018 15:24:11 GMT
Everything after that ... is wrong. Oh.
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Post by hobowar on Apr 22, 2018 17:08:30 GMT
Marvel do villains better than anyone in my opinion. There are villains in mcu movies? Huh? I've never noticed. That's because you're stupid.
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Post by HaveYourselfaMerryLittleAckbar on Apr 22, 2018 18:17:49 GMT
I've been anticipating disappointment with this one. There's just too many characters and I don't think an alien invasion plot can deliver on the hype. I also don't think Disney will let them kill anyone, except maybe Loki.
It will good. But it probably won't be the mind blowing masterpiece that fans want it to be.
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