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Post by Prime etc. on Sept 20, 2023 16:03:11 GMT
Are you going to whine "WOKE" anytime you a see a woman, nonwhite or nonhet in anything? It depends. I think there has always been a degree of wokeness--even Buckwheat was woke for his day. They had him in Our Gang merely for multicultural outreach purposes.
And a lot of cases of whites playing non-whites was motivated by some kind of multiculturalism. That's why some things look so bad now like the black janitor who sacrifices himself to save the hero.
You can bet right now that the new James Bond will either be non-white or feminine.
Money in the bank folks. Money in the bank.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 20, 2023 18:41:54 GMT
Well, Spider-Man: No Way Home maybe, but everything else? Black Widow had its bright spots but on the whole it was a movie that needed to be made sooner than later, the tone is uneven in some places, the action isn't anything to really write home about, and the handling of and eventual twist reveal concerning Taskmaster was quite frankly an ineffective attempt at subverting expectation, and as lovely as Olga Kurylenko is it is not an easy pill to swallow that she was born in the middle of the 1990's. Shang Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings for the most part was stylistically fresh and had exciting action, but its storyline wasn't that interesting, and it dragged itself longer than it needed to and hurt the pacing of it all. Eternals was overly long and visually bland; the wrong director was selected, and their vision was definitely wrong for the subject matter. Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness had a lot of energy put into it by Sam Raimi, but the storyline was fairly wonky, not a surprise since the screenwriter wasn't given a lot of time to craft it. Thor: Love and Thunder was a bunch of nonsense, there was too much emphasis on humor that any drama and stakes in the story could hardly be felt because almost everything is played for laughs. It "says a lot" (to quote you) when you have people who rather enjoyed the movie take a liking to the idea that the events of the movie are not how it actually played out in the Marvel Cinematic Universe but rather is a lighter version of the events as told by Korg. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever was too long, uninteresting, and depressing. Ironheart and Valentina Allegra de Fontaine's inclusion felt very forced and unnecessary, and outside of one or two sequences Namor was pretty forgettable. On the TV side of things...WandaVision started out interesting but didn't stick to landing. The Falcon and the Winter Soldier had a nice set up but got nonsensical as it carried on and its attempts at political commentary were eyerolling. Loki was generally pretty interesting, but it ultimately hurt the overall verisimilitude of the Marvel Cinematic Universe up to that point. What If...? was a mixed bag; some episodes were good, others pretty lackluster ("Party Thor"...Really?). Hawkeye started out pretty good, but they dropped the ball very hard come the finale. Moon Knight had its bright spots, but in the end, it probably would have been better off as a movie because there was noticeable strain by the filmmakers to stretch the plot out and it showed in places. She-Hulk: Attorney at Law was a misfire, only one episode I would say was enjoyable to watch from start to finish. Ms. Marvel I would say is the only of the series in Phase Four that actually stuck to landing and was consistently good. As far as specials go, both Werewolf by Night and Guardians of the Galaxy's Holiday Special were good, not much else can be said there. The I Am Groot shorts are okay too. Stan Lee made it clear to the staff at Marvel Comics to present each issue of their titles to function as the reader's first book, meaning they didn't necessarily have to read what had come before to understand what was going on and be immersed in the material. (Hence why there were boxes to explain the character's origin and the story so far on the front page) This approach has carried on for decades and is true to an extent today in the comic books, and Marvel Studios applied to Phases One, Two, and Three pretty well (I.E. You didn't have to see Ant-Man to be engaged into the character for Captain America: Civil War) but have since then abandoned it. ^ Of course, I am sure your response to all of this will be one fallacy after another and attempt to bait into an endless trap. Most of it, yes.
No Way Home was poorly written gutless fanservice.
All those movies you brought up were better than Thors 1 and 2, Iron Mans 2 and 3, Age of Ultron, Ant-Man, Incredible Hulk and First Avenger.
And I'm sorry, but after 11-12 years it's going to be pretty hard to make every story a "Viewers first movie". It's inevitable after all this time that we'd experience some Continuity Lock-Out.
Nah. Maybe in your opinion, but aside from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 it is the only Marvel Studios release post Endgame that actually was a genuine crowd pleaser that didn't make investors nervous. They aren't. Thor: Love and Thunder is the Batman & Robin equivalent to the Thor franchise and arguably the worst Marvel Studios release, like I said when you have people who rather enjoyed the film fancy the idea that most of the picture isn't what actually happened and was a sugar coated and lighter retelling by Korg it doesn't really sound like they are perfectly fine with it. So, what exactly do you propose general audiences do if they want to watch one thing but not the other? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 20, 2023 23:57:14 GMT
Most of it, yes.
No Way Home was poorly written gutless fanservice.
All those movies you brought up were better than Thors 1 and 2, Iron Mans 2 and 3, Age of Ultron, Ant-Man, Incredible Hulk and First Avenger.
And I'm sorry, but after 11-12 years it's going to be pretty hard to make every story a "Viewers first movie". It's inevitable after all this time that we'd experience some Continuity Lock-Out.
Nah. Maybe in your opinion, but aside from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 it is the only Marvel Studios release post Endgame that actually was a genuine crowd pleaser that didn't make investors nervous. They aren't. Thor: Love and Thunder is the Batman & Robin equivalent to the Thor franchise and arguably the worst Marvel Studios release, like I said when you have people who rather enjoyed the film fancy the idea that most of the picture isn't what actually happened and was a sugar coated and lighter retelling by Korg it doesn't really sound like they are perfectly fine with it. So, what exactly do you propose general audiences do if they want to watch one thing but not the other? The D+ shows were crowd pleasers, so was Shang Chi, Multiverse (people got the wrong idea from trailers though), Wakanda Forever.
Love and Thunder was nowhere near the bomb and disaster that Batman and Robin was. I do love how it exposed how fickle "fans" are though, singing Taiki's praises and then all it takes it one mediocre movie and somehow he's the Devil.
You may as well ask what if a show gets popular in S3 and people start hearing about it and want to watch it but need to catch up...they catch up first.
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Post by scabab on Sept 21, 2023 0:57:33 GMT
Spider-Man No Way Home and to a lesser extent Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is all the MCU movies have had of any real worth in the last 4 years now.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 21, 2023 1:08:48 GMT
Spider-Man No Way Home and to a lesser extent Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is all the MCU movies have had of any real worth in the last 4 years now. No Way Home was nothing but poorly written gutless fanservice. Folks only went to see that for Tobey and Andrew and their old scene-stealer villains, not a real continuation to Tom's story. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 21, 2023 2:39:32 GMT
Nah. Maybe in your opinion, but aside from Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 3 it is the only Marvel Studios release post Endgame that actually was a genuine crowd pleaser that didn't make investors nervous. They aren't. Thor: Love and Thunder is the Batman & Robin equivalent to the Thor franchise and arguably the worst Marvel Studios release, like I said when you have people who rather enjoyed the film fancy the idea that most of the picture isn't what actually happened and was a sugar coated and lighter retelling by Korg it doesn't really sound like they are perfectly fine with it. So, what exactly do you propose general audiences do if they want to watch one thing but not the other? The D+ shows were crowd pleasers, so was Shang Chi, Multiverse (people got the wrong idea from trailers though), Wakanda Forever.
Love and Thunder was nowhere near the bomb and disaster that Batman and Robin was. I do love how it exposed how fickle "fans" are though, singing Taiki's praises and then all it takes it one mediocre movie and somehow he's the Devil.
You may as well ask what if a show gets popular in S3 and people start hearing about it and want to watch it but need to catch up...they catch up first.
So, why didn't those movies perform better with critics and audiences? Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was coming off of Spider-Man: No Way Home and even had a teaser attached at the very end of the credits but it couldn't even touch the same kind of numbers. In fact, it had the one of the biggest drops at the U.S. box office for a Marvel Studios movie ( link). And, according to this study, Phase Four is the least favorite era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, link
As far as the Disney+ series go, only Loki can be argued as a genuine crowd please; its series premiere scored 2.5 million in ratings and saw a boost towards the end of its run ( link), and, of course, a second season is on the horizon. However, none of the other series on Disney+ came to rival that, not even in series premieres ( link). It should also be noted Ms. Marvel not only didn't do very well on Disney+, it also did pretty bad on ABC ( link). One thing to also note is that for 2022, none of the Marvel Studios' series were even half as popular as Amazon's own superhero series The Boys ( link). Unless a worse film with the character is made, Love and Thunder remains the franchise equivalent to Batman & Robin as far as Thor is concerned, in that it took a new, lighter, and comedic direction for an established serious character on screen and amplified it to the tenth degree, to where you honestly cannot take anything very seriously about it because almost everything is played so silly and absolute verisimilitude is lost. Case in point, why in the world would New Asgard have attractions related to Thanos and the Infinity Stones? Last I checked, he was an intergalactic terrorist who slaughtered many Asgardian and human lives, erased half of the general population for five years, and ruined economies throughout the cosmos. They managed to produce films that lots of people could still enjoy a good deal without having to do the 'homework' as we can call it. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 21, 2023 2:40:31 GMT
Spider-Man No Way Home and to a lesser extent Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is all the MCU movies have had of any real worth in the last 4 years now. No Way Home was nothing but poorly written gutless fanservice. Folks only went to see that for Tobey and Andrew and their old scene-stealer villains, not a real continuation to Tom's story. Interesting, where is the source to back this up? |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 21, 2023 12:17:19 GMT
The D+ shows were crowd pleasers, so was Shang Chi, Multiverse (people got the wrong idea from trailers though), Wakanda Forever.
Love and Thunder was nowhere near the bomb and disaster that Batman and Robin was. I do love how it exposed how fickle "fans" are though, singing Taiki's praises and then all it takes it one mediocre movie and somehow he's the Devil.
You may as well ask what if a show gets popular in S3 and people start hearing about it and want to watch it but need to catch up...they catch up first.
So, why didn't those movies perform better with critics and audiences? Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was coming off of Spider-Man: No Way Home and even had a teaser attached at the very end of the credits but it couldn't even touch the same kind of numbers. In fact, it had the one of the biggest drops at the U.S. box office for a Marvel Studios movie ( link). And, according to this study, Phase Four is the least favorite era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, link
As far as the Disney+ series go, only Loki can be argued as a genuine crowd please; its series premiere scored 2.5 million in ratings and saw a boost towards the end of its run ( link), and, of course, a second season is on the horizon. However, none of the other series on Disney+ came to rival that, not even in series premieres ( link). It should also be noted Ms. Marvel performed not only didn't do very well on Disney+, it also did pretty bad on ABC ( link). One thing to also note is that for 2022, none of the Marvel Studios' series were even half as popular as Amazon's own superhero series The Boys ( link). Unless a worse film with the character is made, Love and Thunder remains the franchise equivalent to Batman & Robin as far as Thor is concerned, in that it took a new, lighter, and comedic direction for an established serious character on screen and amplified it to the tenth degree, to where you honestly cannot take anything very seriously about it because almost everything is played so silly and absolute verisimilitude is lost. Case in point, why in the world would New Asgard have attractions related to Thanos and the Infinity Stones? Last I checked, he was an intergalactic terrorist who slaughtered many Asgardian and human lives, erased half of the general population for five years, and ruined economies throughout the cosmos. They managed to produce films that lots of people could still enjoy a good deal without having to do the 'homework' as we can call it. They did perform well, though. Multiverse didn't have prior versions of Spider-Man or scene-stealer villains in it, and it angered people who didn't want to see WandaVision first to understand the movie.
Revisionist history, because Phase 2 went through the same "This is the worst EVAR!" attitude.
Duh, it starred one of the Phase 1 scene stealers. The other shows were about characters who had been just Secondary characters up to that point that folks didn't realize could be entertaining and good as Leads until they bothered watching them. Ms Marvel's TV debut went up against a bunch of hit reality TV shows, and the sad fact of being about a young Pakistani Girl in today's environment is still a hard sell.
The D+ shows were in their first seasons going against a show that already had been going on longer (The Boys) and had more time to build up an audience and exploited it's HBO levels of sex and gore, rather than meaningful content. Although the D+ shows got more notice from the Awards people.
There's a Tony award winning play about 9/11 on Broadway. These things happen.
Not by Phase 3. By then you needed to see the earlier movies to really understand things.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 21, 2023 12:18:01 GMT
No Way Home was nothing but poorly written gutless fanservice. Folks only went to see that for Tobey and Andrew and their old scene-stealer villains, not a real continuation to Tom's story. Interesting, where is the source to back this up? Talking to actual people who saw it, who admitted they only saw it for Tobey and/or Andrew and their villains and don't care about the MCU stuff. |
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Post by scabab on Sept 21, 2023 13:37:15 GMT
Spider-Man No Way Home and to a lesser extent Guardians of the Galaxy 3 is all the MCU movies have had of any real worth in the last 4 years now. No Way Home was nothing but poorly written gutless fanservice. Folks only went to see that for Tobey and Andrew and their old scene-stealer villains, not a real continuation to Tom's story. Doesn't really matter. It's far and away the best MCU since Endgame so that would only really speak of the quality or lack thereof for all the other movies in the past 4 years. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 21, 2023 19:27:06 GMT
So, why didn't those movies perform better with critics and audiences? Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness was coming off of Spider-Man: No Way Home and even had a teaser attached at the very end of the credits but it couldn't even touch the same kind of numbers. In fact, it had the one of the biggest drops at the U.S. box office for a Marvel Studios movie ( link). And, according to this study, Phase Four is the least favorite era of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, link
As far as the Disney+ series go, only Loki can be argued as a genuine crowd please; its series premiere scored 2.5 million in ratings and saw a boost towards the end of its run ( link), and, of course, a second season is on the horizon. However, none of the other series on Disney+ came to rival that, not even in series premieres ( link). It should also be noted Ms. Marvel performed not only didn't do very well on Disney+, it also did pretty bad on ABC ( link). One thing to also note is that for 2022, none of the Marvel Studios' series were even half as popular as Amazon's own superhero series The Boys ( link). Unless a worse film with the character is made, Love and Thunder remains the franchise equivalent to Batman & Robin as far as Thor is concerned, in that it took a new, lighter, and comedic direction for an established serious character on screen and amplified it to the tenth degree, to where you honestly cannot take anything very seriously about it because almost everything is played so silly and absolute verisimilitude is lost. Case in point, why in the world would New Asgard have attractions related to Thanos and the Infinity Stones? Last I checked, he was an intergalactic terrorist who slaughtered many Asgardian and human lives, erased half of the general population for five years, and ruined economies throughout the cosmos. They managed to produce films that lots of people could still enjoy a good deal without having to do the 'homework' as we can call it. They did perform well, though. Multiverse didn't have prior versions of Spider-Man or scene-stealer villains in it, and it angered people who didn't want to see WandaVision first to understand the movie.
Revisionist history, because Phase 2 went through the same "This is the worst EVAR!" attitude.
Duh, it starred one of the Phase 1 scene stealers. The other shows were about characters who had been just Secondary characters up to that point that folks didn't realize could be entertaining and good as Leads until they bothered watching them. Ms Marvel's TV debut went up against a bunch of hit reality TV shows, and the sad fact of being about a young Pakistani Girl in today's environment is still a hard sell.
The D+ shows were in their first seasons going against a show that already had been going on longer (The Boys) and had more time to build up an audience and exploited it's HBO levels of sex and gore, rather than meaningful content. Although the D+ shows got more notice from the Awards people.
There's a Tony award winning play about 9/11 on Broadway. These things happen.
Not by Phase 3. By then you needed to see the earlier movies to really understand things.
But not as well as investors were hoping they would make, otherwise it would be a different story and conversation right now, don't you think? Sequels to the last Doctor Strange and Shang-Chi are up in the air with uncertainty of when they could be out by, a follow-up to the Eternals is just whispers but nothing concrete to suggest it is coming in hot, and a third Black Panther has had no movement in development, and its spin-off Ironheart has been delayed indefinitely. And come on, Doctor Strange had a major role in No Way Home, was featured in the marketing, and Multiverse of Madness had a teaser at the end of No Way Home that dozens upon dozens of people saw; the motion picture was definitely not flying under the radar, it even had an advertisement attached to the Superbowl. The movie saw a huge opening weekend, and a huge drop off in the second weekend. A record, per the source I provided. I suggest you read the article, because it has data to back up its claim. Sorry, but no attempt at justification can work in this case, these characters all appeared in billion dollar earning movies and were coming off of Avengers: Endgame, which for a time was the highest grossing motion picture of all-time. These other shows should have scored higher ratings and kept growing as the weeks progressed if they were as well-liked as you argue, but they didn't. If you genuinely liked these shows, good on you, but at some point you just have to read the room and recognize the studio has made some missteps and as a result the brand isn't as hot as it used to be, and consumer faith isn't there like it used to. Otherwise, they would have all done better, Ms. Marvel as well. And if a series centered around a Pakistani lead is such a hard sell to television, why would Disney invest their time and energy into such a production and try to score interest by airing it on national television through ABC? Why give the character a leading part in a Captain Marvel sequel? The problem is that most of Marvel Studios' content in Phase Four drove a lot of consumers away from the brand and put out too much lackluster media that was made to be homework for people to see to understand what was happening next. No excuse. The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been going on since 2008, The Boys kicked off in 2019. General audiences already were well invested into the characters of the Marvel universe. Terrible example. The play you are referring to, "Come From Away", treats the events of September 11, 2001 as very seriously and is about the people showing others compassion, link
The attractions on display in New Asgard are comparable to this tasteless commercial done by the employees of a Miracle Mattress store in Texas who had a "Twin Towers sale", So, Marvel Studios has abandoned a success strategy? Ok, good luck convincing the average person that the studio knows how to please the customer. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 21, 2023 19:27:28 GMT
Interesting, where is the source to back this up? Talking to actual people who saw it, who admitted they only saw it for Tobey and/or Andrew and their villains and don't care about the MCU stuff. Nope, I asked for a source, please provide one. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 22, 2023 2:12:48 GMT
No Way Home was nothing but poorly written gutless fanservice. Folks only went to see that for Tobey and Andrew and their old scene-stealer villains, not a real continuation to Tom's story. Doesn't really matter. It's far and away the best MCU since Endgame so that would only really speak of the quality or lack thereof for all the other movies in the past 4 years. It does matter, it means that the audience enjoyed gutless fanservice over an actually well written movie. Like Wakanda Forever or Shang Chi. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 22, 2023 2:19:16 GMT
They did perform well, though. Multiverse didn't have prior versions of Spider-Man or scene-stealer villains in it, and it angered people who didn't want to see WandaVision first to understand the movie.
Revisionist history, because Phase 2 went through the same "This is the worst EVAR!" attitude.
Duh, it starred one of the Phase 1 scene stealers. The other shows were about characters who had been just Secondary characters up to that point that folks didn't realize could be entertaining and good as Leads until they bothered watching them. Ms Marvel's TV debut went up against a bunch of hit reality TV shows, and the sad fact of being about a young Pakistani Girl in today's environment is still a hard sell.
The D+ shows were in their first seasons going against a show that already had been going on longer (The Boys) and had more time to build up an audience and exploited it's HBO levels of sex and gore, rather than meaningful content. Although the D+ shows got more notice from the Awards people.
There's a Tony award winning play about 9/11 on Broadway. These things happen.
Not by Phase 3. By then you needed to see the earlier movies to really understand things.
But not as well as investors were hoping they would make, otherwise it would be a different story and conversation right now, don't you think? Sequels to the last Doctor Strange and Shang-Chi are up in the air with uncertainty of when they could be out by, a follow-up to the Eternals is just whispers but nothing concrete to suggest it is coming in hot, and a third Black Panther has had no movement in development, and its spin-off Ironheart has been delayed indefinitely. And come on, Doctor Strange had a major role in No Way Home, was featured in the marketing, and Multiverse of Madness had a teaser at the end of No Way Home that dozens upon dozens of people saw; the motion picture was definitely not flying under the radar, it even had an advertisement attached to the Superbowl. The movie saw a huge opening weekend, and a huge drop off in the second weekend. A record, per the source I provided. I suggest you read the article, because it has data to back up its claim. Sorry, but no attempt at justification can work in this case, these characters all appeared in billion dollar earning movies and were coming off of Avengers: Endgame, which for a time was the highest grossing motion picture of all-time. These other shows should have scored higher ratings and kept growing as the weeks progressed if they were as well-liked as you argue, but they didn't. If you genuinely liked these shows, good on you, but at some point you just have to read the room and recognize the studio has made some missteps and as a result the brand isn't as hot as it used to be, and consumer faith isn't there like it used to. Otherwise, they would have all done better, Ms. Marvel as well. And if a series centered around a Pakistani lead is such a hard sell to television, why would Disney invest their time and energy into such a production and try to score interest by airing it on national television through ABC? Why give the character a leading part in a Captain Marvel sequel? The problem is that most of Marvel Studios' content in Phase Four drove a lot of consumers away from the brand and put out too much lackluster media that was made to be homework for people to see to understand what was happening next. No excuse. The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been going on since 2008, The Boys kicked off in 2019. General audiences already were well invested into the characters of the Marvel universe. Terrible example. The play you are referring to, "Come From Away", treats the events of September 11, 2001 was very seriously and is about the people showing others compassion, link
The attractions on display in New Asgard are comparable to this tasteless commercial done by the employees of the Miracle Mattress store in Texas who had a "Twin Towers sale", So, Marvel Studios has abandoned a success strategy? Ok, good luck convincing the average person that the studio knows how to please the customer. They're aren't up in the air, they're not being rushed but they aren't canceled either.
Ironheart hasn't been delayed indefinitely, they're predicting it will be in 2024 sometime. The strike delayed it, not a deliberate choice.
Yes, and then when the audience found out they had to see WandaVision to really understand DR2 they were turned off by that. That's why the drop.
The data, which is what I said about D+'s shows being new ones compared to Boys being in S3 so it had two prior seasons of build up.
They appeared as secondaries, except Loki, if you remember a lot of the shows were getting poo-pooed as soon as they were announced because of the attitude that secondary characters didn't deserve to be treated like primaries.
Why did they do Ms Marvel? Because they decided to take a creative risk. Ballsy, really.
Not the secondary characters, they were actually against them getting shows/focus.
It's still a play about a horrific tragedy. You see anyone calling "Titanic" manipulative and tasteless in exploiting that tragedy too? No, you don't.
It's called taking a creative risk.
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 22, 2023 2:20:40 GMT
Talking to actual people who saw it, who admitted they only saw it for Tobey and/or Andrew and their villains and don't care about the MCU stuff. Nope, I asked for a source, please provide one. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 22, 2023 3:06:43 GMT
Doesn't really matter. It's far and away the best MCU since Endgame so that would only really speak of the quality or lack thereof for all the other movies in the past 4 years. It does matter, it means that the audience enjoyed gutless fanservice over an actually well written movie. Like Wakanda Forever or Shang Chi.Neither were well-written. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 22, 2023 3:32:16 GMT
But not as well as investors were hoping they would make, otherwise it would be a different story and conversation right now, don't you think? Sequels to the last Doctor Strange and Shang-Chi are up in the air with uncertainty of when they could be out by, a follow-up to the Eternals is just whispers but nothing concrete to suggest it is coming in hot, and a third Black Panther has had no movement in development, and its spin-off Ironheart has been delayed indefinitely. And come on, Doctor Strange had a major role in No Way Home, was featured in the marketing, and Multiverse of Madness had a teaser at the end of No Way Home that dozens upon dozens of people saw; the motion picture was definitely not flying under the radar, it even had an advertisement attached to the Superbowl. The movie saw a huge opening weekend, and a huge drop off in the second weekend. A record, per the source I provided. I suggest you read the article, because it has data to back up its claim. Sorry, but no attempt at justification can work in this case, these characters all appeared in billion dollar earning movies and were coming off of Avengers: Endgame, which for a time was the highest grossing motion picture of all-time. These other shows should have scored higher ratings and kept growing as the weeks progressed if they were as well-liked as you argue, but they didn't. If you genuinely liked these shows, good on you, but at some point you just have to read the room and recognize the studio has made some missteps and as a result the brand isn't as hot as it used to be, and consumer faith isn't there like it used to. Otherwise, they would have all done better, Ms. Marvel as well. And if a series centered around a Pakistani lead is such a hard sell to television, why would Disney invest their time and energy into such a production and try to score interest by airing it on national television through ABC? Why give the character a leading part in a Captain Marvel sequel? The problem is that most of Marvel Studios' content in Phase Four drove a lot of consumers away from the brand and put out too much lackluster media that was made to be homework for people to see to understand what was happening next. No excuse. The Marvel Cinematic Universe has been going on since 2008, The Boys kicked off in 2019. General audiences already were well invested into the characters of the Marvel universe. Terrible example. The play you are referring to, "Come From Away", treats the events of September 11, 2001 was very seriously and is about the people showing others compassion, link
The attractions on display in New Asgard are comparable to this tasteless commercial done by the employees of the Miracle Mattress store in Texas who had a "Twin Towers sale", So, Marvel Studios has abandoned a success strategy? Ok, good luck convincing the average person that the studio knows how to please the customer. They're aren't up in the air, they're not being rushed but they aren't canceled either.
Ironheart hasn't been delayed indefinitely, they're predicting it will be in 2024 sometime. The strike delayed it, not a deliberate choice.
Yes, and then when the audience found out they had to see WandaVision to really understand DR2 they were turned off by that. That's why the drop.
The data, which is what I said about D+'s shows being new ones compared to Boys being in S3 so it had two prior seasons of build up.
They appeared as secondaries, except Loki, if you remember a lot of the shows were getting poo-pooed as soon as they were announced because of the attitude that secondary characters didn't deserve to be treated like primaries.
Why did they do Ms Marvel? Because they decided to take a creative risk. Ballsy, really.
Not the secondary characters, they were actually against them getting shows/focus.
It's still a play about a horrific tragedy. You see anyone calling "Titanic" manipulative and tasteless in exploiting that tragedy too? No, you don't.
It's called taking a creative risk.
If they were big of crowd pleasers as you claim, development wouldn't be slow on them. A Shang-Chi sequel should by be filmed and ready for release now, so would an Eternals follow-up. Yes, Ironheart has been delayed indefinitely, and has been pushed back numerous times well before the strikes started. 2024 is the best guess of release, but no release date is finalized (therefore, delayed indefinitely). What about the people who did see WandaVision and didn't like the movie, either? The movie simply wasn't all that great of a product, and it shows in the wonky storytelling (which was rushed, the screenwriter wasn't given much time to develop it, and there wasn't strong enough communication between the crew of the movie and the WandaVision series). No, I was referring to the article I linked which shared data suggesting Phase Four is the least favorite phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe by general consumers. Proof, or it didn't happen. I saw next to no one make such complaints. It wasn't a 'creative risk', the character had been around for a while in the comic books and was a major player in several key storylines over the years, something with her was guaranteed as back as Phase Three in 2018 by Kevin Feige ( link) No, they weren't. If there was zero demand as you claim, they wouldn't get made in the first place. So, you agree with me that the movie shouldn't have made light of Thanos and his actions? Good to know, for a second there it came across like you were trying to bait me again. It isn't, really. When it comes to franchises it is encouraged that the product be a worthwhile investment from consumers who have been showing support for it from the start and still be engaging for a pair of fresh eyes. This is what the highest grossing sequels of all-time accomplish, i.e. Top Gun: Maverick, you didn't have to see the original film to enjoy the new one. |
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Sept 22, 2023 3:33:15 GMT
Nope, I asked for a source, please provide one. One person's opinion is not what I was asking for - I wanted statical data from a respectable source. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 22, 2023 11:57:50 GMT
It does matter, it means that the audience enjoyed gutless fanservice over an actually well written movie. Like Wakanda Forever or Shang Chi.Neither were well-written. They were better written than First Avenger, Iron Mans 2 and 3, Thors 1-2, Age of Ultron, Guardians 2, No Way Home and Ant-Mans 1 and 2. |
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Post by formersamhmd on Sept 22, 2023 12:05:55 GMT
They're aren't up in the air, they're not being rushed but they aren't canceled either.
Ironheart hasn't been delayed indefinitely, they're predicting it will be in 2024 sometime. The strike delayed it, not a deliberate choice.
Yes, and then when the audience found out they had to see WandaVision to really understand DR2 they were turned off by that. That's why the drop.
The data, which is what I said about D+'s shows being new ones compared to Boys being in S3 so it had two prior seasons of build up.
They appeared as secondaries, except Loki, if you remember a lot of the shows were getting poo-pooed as soon as they were announced because of the attitude that secondary characters didn't deserve to be treated like primaries.
Why did they do Ms Marvel? Because they decided to take a creative risk. Ballsy, really.
Not the secondary characters, they were actually against them getting shows/focus.
It's still a play about a horrific tragedy. You see anyone calling "Titanic" manipulative and tasteless in exploiting that tragedy too? No, you don't.
It's called taking a creative risk.
If they were big of crowd pleasers as you claim, development wouldn't be slow on them. A Shang-Chi sequel should by be filmed and ready for release now, so would an Eternals follow-up. Yes, Ironheart has been delayed indefinitely, and has been pushed back numerous times well before the strikes started. 2024 is the best guess of release, but no release date is finalized (therefore, delayed indefinitely). What about the people who did see WandaVision and didn't like the movie, either? The movie simply wasn't all that great of a product, and it shows in the wonky storytelling (which was rushed, the screenwriter wasn't given much time to develop it, and there wasn't strong enough communication between the crew of the movie and the WandaVision series). No, I was referring to the article I linked which shared data suggesting Phase Four is the least favorite phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe by general consumers. Proof, or it didn't happen. I saw next to no one make such complaints. It wasn't a 'creative risk', the character had been around for a while in the comic books and was a major player in several key storylines over the years, something with her was guaranteed as back as Phase Three in 2018 by Kevin Feige ( link) No, they weren't. If there was zero demand as you claim, they wouldn't get made in the first place. So, you agree with me that the movie shouldn't have made light of Thanos and his actions? Good to know, for a second there it came across like you were trying to bait me again. It isn't, really. When it comes to franchises it is encouraged that the product be a worthwhile investment from consumers who have been showing support for it from the start and still be engaging for a pair of fresh eyes. This is what the highest grossing sequels of all-time accomplish, i.e. Top Gun: Maverick, you didn't have to see the original film to enjoy the new one. The plan is to have the Shang Chi sequel be after the next Avengers movie, probably because they weren't expecting Shang Chi to be the success it was.
Which is because of the strikes, not a deliberate choice.
It was better than Iron Mans 2-3, First Avenger, Thors 1-2, Age of Ultron, Ant-Mans 1-2, Guardians 2 and at least as good as Dr Strange 1. I know folks were expecting something ridiculous like the movie would merge the MCU with the FoX-Men universe but that was never going to happen.
Into the Spiderverse had the same plot points as Multiverse, but no one complained there. Double Standards.
That was the same claptrap said about Phase 2 back then
I saw them make those complaints, go watch the usual Grifters like Nerdrotic and the lot and you'll be flooded with them.
It was, making a positive story about a teenage Muslim Girl in what had been a White Male Dominated series is a big risk, especially in today's America.
Creative Risks, like I said.
I'm saying that if you can excuse those movies and stage plays, then you can excuse stuff like that.
Top Gun Maverick only was successful because it had Pentagon backing and that artificial booster kept it running beyond normal runtimes in theaters. Any movie would make money with that. The content wasn't anything special.
Look at Sounds of Freedom, are you going to tell me that film made its success legitimately? It didn't. Maverick isn't different.
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