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Post by Skaathar on May 1, 2018 23:09:49 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does.
It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other.
The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 1, 2018 23:26:38 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does. It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other. The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other. Interaction both in and out of fight scenes. A lot of the times in JL, you can see the singular mindset with the characters. A lot of times if they have more than one character do an action it is to boost one of those characters. This action is for this character. The X-men movies are like how Rob Liefeld is described. Like a person playing with action figures. Can only hold 1 in each hand at a time. If there is another character there, those others aren't really doing anything. If there is a group of characters, they are standing there shootin' muh lasers (end of Apocalypse). Even in X3 when there is a huge battle going on, it feels like there are only the 2 focus people while everyone in the backgrounds are cardboard stand ins. Iceman vs Pyro fight there is no one around even though there was a lot a people running around just before. Also, in the new Ant-man and the Wasp trailer you can see a lot of teamwork between the 2.
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Post by Skaathar on May 1, 2018 23:42:55 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does. It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other. The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other. Interaction both in and out of fight scenes. A lot of the times in JL, you can see the singular mindset with the characters. A lot of times if they have more than one character do an action it is to boost one of those characters. This action is for this character. The X-men movies are like how Rob Liefeld is described. Like a person playing with action figures. Can only hold 1 in each hand at a time. If there is another character there, those others aren't really doing anything. If there is a group of characters, they are standing there shootin' muh lasers (end of Apocalypse). Even in X3 when there is a huge battle going on, it feels like there are only the 2 focus people while everyone in the backgrounds are cardboard stand ins. Iceman vs Pyro fight there is no one around even though there was a lot a people running around just before. Also, in the new Ant-man and the Wasp trailer you can see a lot of teamwork between the 2. That's a pretty bang-on assessment of the X-men fight scenes. You said it better than I could, where even the biggest battles focus on just 1-2 character per screen.
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Post by ThatGuy on May 1, 2018 23:59:49 GMT
Interaction both in and out of fight scenes. A lot of the times in JL, you can see the singular mindset with the characters. A lot of times if they have more than one character do an action it is to boost one of those characters. This action is for this character. The X-men movies are like how Rob Liefeld is described. Like a person playing with action figures. Can only hold 1 in each hand at a time. If there is another character there, those others aren't really doing anything. If there is a group of characters, they are standing there shootin' muh lasers (end of Apocalypse). Even in X3 when there is a huge battle going on, it feels like there are only the 2 focus people while everyone in the backgrounds are cardboard stand ins. Iceman vs Pyro fight there is no one around even though there was a lot a people running around just before. Also, in the new Ant-man and the Wasp trailer you can see a lot of teamwork between the 2. That's a pretty bang-on assessment of the X-men fight scenes. You said it better than I could, where even the biggest battles focus on just 1-2 character per screen. Every time, the other characters are forgotten. X2 has Siryn alert everyone then is taken out. Then Colossus takes out those guys and is told to leave by Logan. Then the rest of the scene is Logan going through the soldiers. Drake home has Logan taken out then Pyro alone against the cops. That escape has Storm and Jean use their powers one at a time. Mystique infiltrates the base and is gone. Storm... storms the entrance. Logan vs Deathstrike, Cyclops vs Jean, Storm vs Jason with Nightcrawler standing there. And they leave Rogue, Iceman and Pyro in the Blackbird. At least the DCEU don't go with power displays like the X-men movies. Just like the MCU, the DCEU at least meld the person with their abilities, instead of "Jean is doing something magical, listen to the music get dramatic!"
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Post by kleinreturns on May 2, 2018 0:51:12 GMT
That's a pretty bang-on assessment of the X-men fight scenes. You said it better than I could, where even the biggest battles focus on just 1-2 character per screen. Every time, the other characters are forgotten. X2 has Siryn alert everyone then is taken out. Then Colossus takes out those guys and is told to leave by Logan. Then the rest of the scene is Logan going through the soldiers. Drake home has Logan taken out then Pyro alone against the cops. That escape has Storm and Jean use their powers one at a time. Mystique infiltrates the base and is gone. Storm... storms the entrance. Logan vs Deathstrike, Cyclops vs Jean, Storm vs Jason with Nightcrawler standing there. And they leave Rogue, Iceman and Pyro in the Blackbird. At least the DCEU don't go with power displays like the X-men movies. Just like the MCU, the DCEU at least meld the person with their abilities, instead of "Jean is doing something magical, listen to the music get dramatic!" Great Post.
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Post by merh on May 2, 2018 1:22:00 GMT
DC heroes are more stand alone. Supes has Metropolis. Bats Gotham. Green Arrow. Flash.
Marvel heroes seem to like to crowd into cities like NYC. They have to learn to xo-operate.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 2, 2018 13:23:52 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does. It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other. The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other. I think the Teen Titans animated series also did a good job of showing effective team work.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 2, 2018 13:25:49 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does. It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other. The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other. I think the Teen Titans animated series also did a good job of showing effective team work. Yeah?
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Post by Skaathar on May 2, 2018 13:28:07 GMT
Is show effective teamwork in their fight scenes. When you see the interaction of their heroes in movies like Avengers, AoU, CW and now Infinity War... no other movie studio showcases teamwork between their heroes as well as the MCU does. It's not just about the heroes working together against a villain, it's about them using their powers in unique ways to assist and complement each other. The DCEU movies mostly just get their heroes to gang up on a villain and dogpile him/her. The X-men does kinda the same thing but concentrates on individual "cool" moments. Both of them only have very few moments where the heroes use their powers in complementary ways to assist each other. I think the Teen Titans animated series also did a good job of showing effective team work. Not really fair to include animated movies or shows. It's very easy to choreograph fight scenes in animations compared to live action.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 2, 2018 13:33:07 GMT
I think the Teen Titans animated series also did a good job of showing effective team work. Not really fair to include animated movies or shows. It's very easy to choreograph fight scenes in animations compared to live action. That too. Way to put that troll in his place, mang.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 2, 2018 13:33:08 GMT
I think the Teen Titans animated series also did a good job of showing effective team work. Not really fair to include animated movies or shows. It's very easy to choreograph fight scenes in animations compared to live action. I have to disagree. One of the challenges the creators of the Justice League series mentioned was how difficult it was to choreograph multiple characters in a fight scene. I'm not saying one is better. Just that Teen Titans did it well, too. And that the series stands as a good example of team work.
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Post by Skaathar on May 2, 2018 13:37:45 GMT
Not really fair to include animated movies or shows. It's very easy to choreograph fight scenes in animations compared to live action. I have to disagree. One of the challenges the creators of the Justice League series mentioned was how difficult it was to choreograph multiple characters in a fight scene. I'm not saying one is better. Just that Teen Titans did it well, too. And that the series stands as a good example of team work. Oh I'm not saying it's not difficult, just nowhere near as difficult as needing to choreograph fight scenes with real people.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 2, 2018 13:44:48 GMT
I have to disagree. One of the challenges the creators of the Justice League series mentioned was how difficult it was to choreograph multiple characters in a fight scene. I'm not saying one is better. Just that Teen Titans did it well, too. And that the series stands as a good example of team work. Oh I'm not saying it's not difficult, just nowhere near as difficult as needing to choreograph fight scenes with real people. Depends on the budget. A high budget movie with multiple stunt people/c oordinators working together has an easier time than a low budget television show with one director trying to coordinate everything with an animated studio half way around the world. The point isn't the behind the scenes difficulty, but in how effective the teamwork is showcased. Teen Titans pulled it off better than just about any other superhero cartoon (including Justice League/JLU).
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 2, 2018 13:45:54 GMT
Oh I'm not saying it's not difficult, just nowhere near as difficult as needing to choreograph fight scenes with real people. Depends on the budget. A high budget movie with multiple stunt people/c oordinators working together has an easier time than a low budget television show with one director trying to coordinate everything with an animated studio half way around the world. The point isn't the behind the scenes difficulty, but in how effective the teamwork is showcased. Teen Titans pulled it off better than just about any other superhero cartoon (including Justice League/JLU). Nah, most cartoons are better.
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Post by Power Ranger on May 2, 2018 14:11:15 GMT
But it’s total bs if they haven’t trained for it. Bucky would have crushed the rodent who jumped on his back during a battle and Iron Man risked frying Cap’s balls if he shoots a beam at him expecting him to deflect it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 2, 2018 14:40:54 GMT
I think the first fantastic Four movies did a good job, it's just the movies sucked.
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Post by Skaathar on May 2, 2018 16:02:43 GMT
Oh I'm not saying it's not difficult, just nowhere near as difficult as needing to choreograph fight scenes with real people. Depends on the budget. A high budget movie with multiple stunt people/c oordinators working together has an easier time than a low budget television show with one director trying to coordinate everything with an animated studio half way around the world. The point isn't the behind the scenes difficulty, but in how effective the teamwork is showcased. Teen Titans pulled it off better than just about any other superhero cartoon (including Justice League/JLU). No dude, it just isn't, regardless of budget. Drawing and animating figures moving and attacking in patterns is in no way as difficult as actually making your stunt men, actors, camera team, lighting team and CGI team recreate the exact same choreography. Budget will help make the fight look good, as in visuals and cinematography and how polished it looks, but it doesn't help as much in terms of actually mapping out the choreography and getting it to happen. Anyway, I agree that the teen titans show had some great teamwork throughout the series, better than the 90's X-men cartoon. The Young Justice show also had some good team work as well as Ultimate Avengers 2. That said, let's try to keep this discussion to live-action movies and shows as it makes for a better comparison.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on May 2, 2018 16:07:32 GMT
Depends on the budget. A high budget movie with multiple stunt people/c oordinators working together has an easier time than a low budget television show with one director trying to coordinate everything with an animated studio half way around the world. The point isn't the behind the scenes difficulty, but in how effective the teamwork is showcased. Teen Titans pulled it off better than just about any other superhero cartoon (including Justice League/JLU). No dude, it just isn't, regardless of budget. Drawing and animating figures moving and attacking in patterns is in no way as difficult as actually making your stunt men, actors, camera team, lighting team and CGI team recreate the exact same choreography. Budget will help make the fight look good, as in visuals and cinematography and how polished it looks, but it doesn't help as much in terms of actually mapping out the choreography and getting it to happen. Anyway, I agree that the teen titans show had some great teamwork throughout the series, better than the 90's X-men cartoon. The Young Justice show also had some good team work as well as Ultimate Avengers 2. That said, let's try to keep this discussion to live-action movies and shows as it makes for a better comparison. Nah, the teamwork in the 90s X-Men cartoon is the best.
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Post by PreachCaleb on May 2, 2018 16:44:10 GMT
Depends on the budget. A high budget movie with multiple stunt people/c oordinators working together has an easier time than a low budget television show with one director trying to coordinate everything with an animated studio half way around the world. The point isn't the behind the scenes difficulty, but in how effective the teamwork is showcased. Teen Titans pulled it off better than just about any other superhero cartoon (including Justice League/JLU). No dude, it just isn't, regardless of budget. Drawing and animating figures moving and attacking in patterns is in no way as difficult as actually making your stunt men, actors, camera team, lighting team and CGI team recreate the exact same choreography. Budget will help make the fight look good, as in visuals and cinematography and how polished it looks, but it doesn't help as much in terms of actually mapping out the choreography and getting it to happen. Anyway, I agree that the teen titans show had some great teamwork throughout the series, better than the 90's X-men cartoon. The Young Justice show also had some good team work as well as Ultimate Avengers 2. That said, let's try to keep this discussion to live-action movies and shows as it makes for a better comparison. Actually, it can be as difficult. In a live action movie, they can review their footage right then and there on their monitors. If something's off, they can do another take or adjust the choreography accordingly. Or they can use some coverage to fix it. In animation, they might not know a scene isn't working until the animation has been completed. At which point, they may have to scrap the scene entirely and send it back to be reanimated. This would actually be months worth of work down the drain. The comparisons work just fine. After all, the point is to showcase teamwork. The medium isn't particularly relevant.
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Post by Skaathar on May 2, 2018 17:34:30 GMT
No dude, it just isn't, regardless of budget. Drawing and animating figures moving and attacking in patterns is in no way as difficult as actually making your stunt men, actors, camera team, lighting team and CGI team recreate the exact same choreography. Budget will help make the fight look good, as in visuals and cinematography and how polished it looks, but it doesn't help as much in terms of actually mapping out the choreography and getting it to happen. Anyway, I agree that the teen titans show had some great teamwork throughout the series, better than the 90's X-men cartoon. The Young Justice show also had some good team work as well as Ultimate Avengers 2. That said, let's try to keep this discussion to live-action movies and shows as it makes for a better comparison. Actually, it can be as difficult. In a live action movie, they can review their footage right then and there on their monitors. If something's off, they can do another take or adjust the choreography accordingly. Or they can use some coverage to fix it. In animation, they might not know a scene isn't working until the animation has been completed. At which point, they may have to scrap the scene entirely and send it back to be reanimated. This would actually be months worth of work down the drain. The comparisons work just fine. After all, the point is to showcase teamwork. The medium isn't particularly relevant. No, you don't scrap an entire scene if a few animations or choreographies are off. You just edit that specific section. In fact, with the kind of technology today you can run simulations on what you want your animation to look like even before you finish the product. And animated features make it way easier to modify lighting, color hues, background, etc. to match the fight choreography. In the end, it's still much easier to pull off fight scenes in an animation than it is in live-action which is why we get far more fantastical fights in cartoons and animations than we do in live-action. Just watch any DBZ cartoon and tell me it's just as easy to pull off their fight scenes in a live-action film.
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