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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 23:26:33 GMT
Morals are relative, and they are social constructs. If we judge them by modern moral standards, which include enlightenment and individualism, then the answer would be "I don't know". If we judge by the standards of the societies they lived in, then Mohammed was probably more in line with his society than the Jesus of the Bible. So it would be "Mohammed". If we judge by pacifism, I guess it would be "Jesus". So the correct answer is: All of the above. By today’s standard Jesus would be more moral, but probably also socially conservative in some respects. Muhammad was responsible for too much violence to be considered more moral than Jesus. |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 23:28:49 GMT
Which of these two figureheads was a more moral man? I think both of them were equally moral, but leave it to certain people to take a good thing and exploit it for their own reasons. I would say by today’s standards Jesus would be a Ghandi or MLK jr. Muhammad more a Vladimir Lenin or Leon Trotsky. |
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Post by clusium on May 12, 2018 23:33:41 GMT
I think both of them were equally moral, but leave it to certain people to take a good thing and exploit it for their own reasons. I would say by today’s standards Jesus would be a Ghandi or MLK jr. Muhammad more a Vladimir Lenin or Leon Trotsky. Both Gandhi & MLK jr. got their inspirations for their passive resistive movements right from the Teachings Of Christ Jesus. |
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Post by goz on May 13, 2018 0:03:31 GMT
I would say by today’s standards Jesus would be a Ghandi or MLK jr. Muhammad more a Vladimir Lenin or Leon Trotsky. Both Gandhi & MLK jr. got their inspirations for their passive resistive movements right from the Teachings Of Christ Jesus. No, Gandhi was not especially influenced by Jesus Christ. Although traditionally a Hindu, when asked later in life whether he was, he replied ""Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew". |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 13, 2018 0:08:57 GMT
I would say by today’s standards Jesus would be a Ghandi or MLK jr. Muhammad more a Vladimir Lenin or Leon Trotsky. Both Gandhi & MLK jr. got their inspirations for their passive resistive movements right from the Teachings Of Christ Jesus. I don;t think either one of them represented Jesus and especially since he couldn't care less about political movements being mixed in with his teachings. Nations were going to do what they do. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2018 0:46:18 GMT
But you just said that morality was subjective, meaning that everyone has a different moral standard. So how could they be using the same one? |
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2018 0:49:46 GMT
since he couldn't care less Finally someone got this right! |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 13, 2018 1:51:24 GMT
But you just said that morality was subjective, meaning that everyone has a different moral standard. So how could they be using the same one? I didn;t say that. I said there are multiple moral standards which makes morality relative, not that each individual follows their own standard. Everyone who is Christin is supposed to be following God's standard just as Jesus did perfectly. That has nothing to do with a person who isn't Christian. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2018 2:25:25 GMT
But you just said that morality was subjective, meaning that everyone has a different moral standard. So how could they be using the same one? I didn;t say that. I said there are multiple moral standards which makes morality relative, not that each individual follows their own standard. This sounds like semantics to me, but I’ll leave it to you to clarify. What’s the difference between moral relativity (what you call “multiple moral standards”) and moral moral subjectivity, which is individual moral standards? Everyone who is Christin is supposed to be following God's standard just as Jesus did perfectly. Unfortunately every Christian also has their own interpretation of exactly what that standard is. I know that. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 13, 2018 2:35:59 GMT
I didn;t say that. I said there are multiple moral standards which makes morality relative, not that each individual follows their own standard. This sounds like semantics to me, but I’ll leave it to you to clarify. What’s the difference between moral relativity (what you call “multiple moral standards”) and moral moral subjectivity, which is individual moral standards? Everyone who is Christin is supposed to be following God's standard just as Jesus did perfectly. Unfortunately every Christian also has their own interpretation of exactly what that standard is. I know that. It's definitely not semantics. Your interpretation couldn't be further from what I said and it isn't necessary to reconcile it. |
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Post by clusium on May 13, 2018 3:04:02 GMT
Both Gandhi & MLK jr. got their inspirations for their passive resistive movements right from the Teachings Of Christ Jesus. No, Gandhi was not especially influenced by Jesus Christ. Although traditionally a Hindu, when asked later in life whether he was, he replied ""Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew". |
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Post by goz on May 13, 2018 3:37:59 GMT
No, Gandhi was not especially influenced by Jesus Christ. Although traditionally a Hindu, when asked later in life whether he was, he replied ""Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew". ^ ^ Christian site. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2018 12:42:25 GMT
This sounds like semantics to me, but I’ll leave it to you to clarify. What’s the difference between moral relativity (what you call “multiple moral standards”) and moral moral subjectivity, which is individual moral standards? Unfortunately every Christian also has their own interpretation of exactly what that standard is. I know that. It's definitely not semantics. Your interpretation couldn't be further from what I said and it isn't necessary to reconcile it. In other words, you can’t actually answer the question: What’s the difference between moral relativity (what you call “multiple moral standards”) and moral subjectivity, which is individual moral standards? Because if you can’t, then it is semantics! I didn’t ask you to reconcile anything; I asked you to clarify your stance, because right now it sounds like you haven’t really thought it through, and you're just making it up as you go along. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 13, 2018 12:51:18 GMT
^ That fact is not particularly relevant unless you can demonstrate opinionated bias in the article, and discredit the facts. And the fact of the matter is, Ghandi WAS influenced (partially) by the teachings of Jesus Christ (though he rejected Christianity as an organized religion, and condemned most Christian followers of it). mkgandhi.org - Christ influence on Ghandi^ Non-Christian site! |
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Post by gawaher on May 13, 2018 18:17:14 GMT
The 2 answers aren't mutually exclusive. So you picked Muhammad? No. |
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Post by gawaher on May 13, 2018 18:19:43 GMT
I would say by today’s standards Jesus would be a Ghandi or MLK jr. Muhammad more a Vladimir Lenin or Leon Trotsky. Both Gandhi & MLK jr. got their inspirations for their passive resistive movements right from the Teachings Of Christ Jesus.  |
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Post by goz on May 13, 2018 22:44:15 GMT
^ That fact is not particularly relevant unless you can demonstrate opinionated bias in the article, and discredit the facts. And the fact of the matter is, Ghandi WAS influenced (partially) by the teachings of Jesus Christ (though he rejected Christianity as an organized religion, and condemned most Christian followers of it). mkgandhi.org - Christ influence on Ghandi^ Non-Christian site! I think the key word in my initial post was 'especially'...it is difficult to apportion percentages to such nebulous ideas as 'influences'. I may be wrong, butt I took Clusium's post to mean that he and MLK 'exclusively' were influenced by Jesus and so used a non Christian site to point this out. Clusium is a doll, butt she tends to ascribe EVERYTHING positive in life to Jesus Christ in a charming and childlike manner. It is almost a shame to disabuse her with other opinions, let alone facts. |
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Post by captainbryce on May 14, 2018 13:22:49 GMT
^ That fact is not particularly relevant unless you can demonstrate opinionated bias in the article, and discredit the facts. And the fact of the matter is, Ghandi WAS influenced (partially) by the teachings of Jesus Christ (though he rejected Christianity as an organized religion, and condemned most Christian followers of it). mkgandhi.org - Christ influence on Ghandi^ Non-Christian site! I think the key word in my initial post was 'especially'...it is difficult to apportion percentages to such nebulous ideas as 'influences'. I may be wrong, butt I took Clusium's post to mean that he and MLK 'exclusively' were influenced by Jesus and so used a non Christian site to point this out. I didn’t get that from what they were saying, but I will leave it to them to clarify if necessary. Clusium is a doll, butt she tends to ascribe EVERYTHING positive in life to Jesus Christ in a charming and childlike manner. It is almost a shame to disabuse her with other opinions, let alone facts. I sympathize (and to some extent agree); I’m only here to clarify the facts. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 14, 2018 14:23:40 GMT
This thread is just an upmarket version of a 'who would win in a fight between superman and batman?' dispute.
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Post by goz on May 14, 2018 21:01:13 GMT
I think the key word in my initial post was 'especially'...it is difficult to apportion percentages to such nebulous ideas as 'influences'. I may be wrong, butt I took Clusium's post to mean that he and MLK 'exclusively' were influenced by Jesus and so used a non Christian site to point this out. I didn’t get that from what they were saying, but I will leave it to them to clarify if necessary. Clusium is a doll, butt she tends to ascribe EVERYTHING positive in life to Jesus Christ in a charming and childlike manner. It is almost a shame to disabuse her with other opinions, let alone facts. I sympathize (and to some extent agree); I’m only here to clarify the facts. ...again, I don't think many 'facts' can be attributed to the attribution of something as nebulous as 'influences' and to claim either way is not valid. My effort was to nullify this idea suggested by Clusium. |
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