|
Post by DC-Fan on May 12, 2018 1:55:42 GMT
Easy answer. What is the genre of movies that JL and IW belong to? Well, JL is a superhero movie and IW is supposed to be a superhero movie. In IW, the "heroes" don't act like heroes and are selfish and repeatedly put their own desires above the greater good. In JL, the superheroes act like true superheroes. There's no selfishness and no egos or claiming sole credit, like Starlord's "For the record, this is MY plan" in IW. And most important of all, in JL, the superheroes work together (e.g. Batman giving advice to Flash when Flash was hesitant in his first battle, Wonder Woman mentoring Cyborg, Flash and Superman saving civilians, Superman and Cyborg pulling the Mother Boxes apart, Superman freezing Steppenwolf's axe and Wonder Woman chopping up the axe with her sword, etc.) and defeat the villain and save the world. In IW, the "heroes" work against each other (e.g. Starlord screwing up the attempt to remove the gauntlet from Thanos' hand) and their selfishness results in the villain killing more than half the universe. That's not much of a superhero movie. So does that mean you consider BvS to be a terrible superhero movie since none of the heroes acted like heroes? Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all worked together to defeat Doomsday and save the world. And in the end, who won? Was half the universe or half the world destroyed in BvS like it was in IW? Half the universe or half the world wasn't destroyed in BvS because Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman all had 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat Doomsday) and worked together to achieve that common agenda. Half the universe was destroyed in IW because many of the "heroes" (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) had their own selfish agendas and the "heroes" not only didn't work together but worked against each other (e.g. Starlord) to help the villain win. That's not much of a "superhero" movie when the "heroes" work against each other to help the villain win.
|
|
|
Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 12, 2018 1:55:59 GMT
Easy answer. What is the genre of movies that JL and IW belong to? Well, JL is a superhero movie and IW is supposed to be a superhero movie. In IW, the "heroes" don't act like heroes and are selfish and repeatedly put their own desires above the greater good. In JL, the superheroes act like true superheroes. There's no selfishness and no egos or claiming sole credit, like Starlord's "For the record, this is MY plan" in IW. And most important of all, in JL, the superheroes work together (e.g. Batman giving advice to Flash when Flash was hesitant in his first battle, Wonder Woman mentoring Cyborg, Flash and Superman saving civilians, Superman and Cyborg pulling the Mother Boxes apart, Superman freezing Steppenwolf's axe and Wonder Woman chopping up the axe with her sword, etc.) and defeat the villain and save the world. In IW, the "heroes" work against each other (e.g. Starlord screwing up the attempt to remove the gauntlet from Thanos' hand) and their selfishness results in the villain killing more than half the universe. That's not much of a superhero movie. Opinion, not fact
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 12, 2018 2:00:15 GMT
I'm no hardcore DCEU supporter, but I liked JL more than IW on the grounds that it's an actual movie. IW is half a movie, and nothing in it will matter in a year. Maybe I'll like it better after I see Avengers 4 - I didn't like Deathly Hallows Part 1 until I saw Part 2 - but until then it feels like a complete waste of time. Isn't Justice League the 1st part of 2 that they aren't going to finish? Justice League is a complete movie. The superheroes worked together as a team with 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat the villain) and they accomplished that mission and defeated the villain and saved the world. Infinity War isn't a complete movie. IW is half a movie. Many of the "heroes" (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) had their own selfish agendas and the "heroes" not only didn't work together but actually worked against each other (e.g. Starlord) to help the villain win and kill more than half the universe.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 12, 2018 2:05:17 GMT
Easy answer. What is the genre of movies that JL and IW belong to? Well, JL is a superhero movie and IW is supposed to be a superhero movie. In IW, the "heroes" don't act like heroes and are selfish and repeatedly put their own desires above the greater good. In JL, the superheroes act like true superheroes. There's no selfishness and no egos or claiming sole credit, like Starlord's "For the record, this is MY plan" in IW. And most important of all, in JL, the superheroes work together (e.g. Batman giving advice to Flash when Flash was hesitant in his first battle, Wonder Woman mentoring Cyborg, Flash and Superman saving civilians, Superman and Cyborg pulling the Mother Boxes apart, Superman freezing Steppenwolf's axe and Wonder Woman chopping up the axe with her sword, etc.) and defeat the villain and save the world. In IW, the "heroes" work against each other (e.g. Starlord screwing up the attempt to remove the gauntlet from Thanos' hand) and their selfishness results in the villain killing more than half the universe. That's not much of a superhero movie. Opinion, not fact It's all fact: 1. The genre of movies is superhero movies. That's a fact. 2. In IW, Starlord tries to claim credit for the plan and says "For the record, this is MY plan". That's a fact. 3. In JL, the superheroes all worked together with 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat Steppenwolf). That's a fact. 4. In JL, the superheroes defeated Steppenwolf and saved the world. So JL is a superhero movie in which the superheroes win. That's a fact. 5. In IW, many of the "heroes" have their own selfish agenda (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) that they put above the greater good. That's a fact. 6. In IW, the "heroes" work against each other (e.g. Starlord) and their selfishness results in Thanos acquiring all the infinity stones and killing more than half the universe. That's a fact. So like I said, it's all fact.
|
|
|
Post by seahawksraawk00 on May 12, 2018 2:14:57 GMT
It's all fact: 1. The genre of movies is superhero movies. That's a fact. 2. In IW, Starlord tries to claim credit for the plan and says "For the record, this is MY plan". That's a fact. 3. In JL, the superheroes all worked together with 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat Steppenwolf). That's a fact. 4. In JL, the superheroes defeated Steppenwolf and saved the world. So JL is a superhero movie in which the superheroes win. That's a fact. 5. In IW, many of the "heroes" have their own selfish agenda (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) that they put above the greater good. That's a fact. 6. In IW, the "heroes" work against each other (e.g. Starlord) and their selfishness results in Thanos acquiring all the infinity stones and killing more than half the universe. That's a fact. So like I said, it's all fact. Opinion, dude. You're not convincing anyone here
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on May 12, 2018 2:25:52 GMT
Isn't Justice League the 1st part of 2 that they aren't going to finish? Justice League is a complete movie. The superheroes worked together as a team with 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat the villain) and they accomplished that mission and defeated the villain and saved the world. Infinity War isn't a complete movie. IW is half a movie. Many of the "heroes" (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) had their own selfish agendas and the "heroes" not only didn't work together but actually worked against each other (e.g. Starlord) to help the villain win and kill more than half the universe. They defeated a mid boss. And of course the Justice League had 1 agenda. They had no character otherwise. There was nothing to them. What drove Aquaman? What did Wonder Woman want? What was Batman's motivation? The movie was so straight forward in the "character" department that you use it as a ruler. Do you know what happens when your characters have no character? No character arcs. No character development.
And they did exactly what they were suppose to do. Over 14 million possibilities to defeat Thanos and only 1 they win. Guess which timeline they are in. The 1 where they win. "This is the only way." They had to lose to win in the long run. I thought DC was where the smart people are.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 12, 2018 2:36:16 GMT
Justice League is a complete movie. The superheroes worked together as a team with 1 common agenda (i.e. to defeat the villain) and they accomplished that mission and defeated the villain and saved the world. Infinity War isn't a complete movie. IW is half a movie. Many of the "heroes" (e.g. Starlord, Scarlet Witch, etc.) had their own selfish agendas and the "heroes" not only didn't work together but actually worked against each other (e.g. Starlord) to help the villain win and kill more than half the universe. They defeated a mid boss. And of course the Justice League had 1 agenda. They had no character otherwise. There was nothing to them. What drove Aquaman? What did Wonder Woman want? What was Batman's motivation? To defeat Steppenwolf and save the world. And that's what they did. By working together with 1 common agenda and not any selfishness like the Avengers did. And they did exactly what they were suppose to do. Over 14 million possibilities to defeat Thanos and only 1 they win. And it's already been proven that Doctor Strange lied. Because if Thor had chopped off Thanos' head (which even Thanos said Thor should've done) instead of going for his chest, then Thor would've killed Thanos and they would've won without more than half the universe dying. But Thor was selfish and wanted to trash-talk Thanos before killing Thanos (even the Russos admitted that Thor intentionally wanted to just injure Thanos so he could trash-talk Thanos before killing Thanos) and Thor's selfishness resulted in Thanos being able to snap his fingers and kill more than half the universe.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on May 12, 2018 2:44:25 GMT
They defeated a mid boss. And of course the Justice League had 1 agenda. They had no character otherwise. There was nothing to them. What drove Aquaman? What did Wonder Woman want? What was Batman's motivation? To defeat Steppenwolf and save the world. And that's what they did. By working together with 1 common agenda and not any selfishness like the Avengers did. And they did exactly what they were suppose to do. Over 14 million possibilities to defeat Thanos and only 1 they win. And it's already been proven that Doctor Strange lied. Because if Thor had chopped off Thanos' head (which even Thanos said Thor should've done) instead of going for his chest, then Thor would've killed Thanos and they would've won without more than half the universe dying. But Thor was selfish and wanted to trash-talk Thanos before killing Thanos (even the Russos admitted that Thor intentionally wanted to just injure Thanos so he could trash-talk Thanos before killing Thanos) and Thor's selfishness resulted in Thanos being able to snap his fingers and kill more than half the universe. Wait... Working together to defeat Steppenwolf? Didn't Batman tell them all to stay at the jet so he could go on a suicide run?
And they are in that timeline that he didn't go for the head. But that doesn't mean they aren't still in the timeline where they win. You do know that in the comic story Thanos gets all the gems and snaps his fingers. That story was decades ago and there was no Crisis on Infinite Earths to retcon the universe. So if the source story came out decades ago with no universe retcon, why are those characters still around in the comics? Think about that. If Spider-man has a movie coming out and there is going to be another Guardians of the Galaxy movie coming, what does that tell you? That they are in the winning timeline.
You are so blinded that it's like talking to a child.
Oh and what you call being selfish is actually called being an actual person. And one of the themes is sacrificing the one you love most. The 1 person out of 3 that did sacrifice the one he loved won.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 12, 2018 2:48:16 GMT
IW is the third Avengers film and the 19th film in the MCU overall, JL is the first JL film and the fifth DCEU film overall. IW had much more set up and much more faith from movie goers around the world that allowed them the opportunity shake things up from what people usually would expect from an MCU movie, so having Thanos win in the end was a surprise moment done right. It wasn't a surprise because most people knew there's going to be a Part 2 so it was obvious that Thanos would win Part 1. That's why JL is a much better movie than IW. Because JL is actually a complete movie while IW isn't even a complete movie. IW is only half a movie. IW is basically like paying to go see a baseball game and then it starts raining after 5 innings and the umpires call the game after 5 innings and since 5 innings is long enough for an official game, it's game over and you don't get any refund or raincheck. Just because people know there will be another movie doesn't take away the surprise and there is still mystery as to how things will be resolved and who will come back or remain gone, that we had the bad guy winning was always a possibility, but it was never set in stone in everybody's minds. And given how so many are talking about it and treating it like its a big deal I'd say the majority of the people who have seen it were surprised and still shaken. Were people surprised Superman came back to life in Justice League? No, why not? Because WB put him on the marketing material which was a huge mistake on their party and actually had Henry Cavill listed in the credits which further spoiled his role in the narrative.
|
|
|
Post by ThatGuy on May 12, 2018 2:56:14 GMT
It wasn't a surprise because most people knew there's going to be a Part 2 so it was obvious that Thanos would win Part 1. That's why JL is a much better movie than IW. Because JL is actually a complete movie while IW isn't even a complete movie. IW is only half a movie. IW is basically like paying to go see a baseball game and then it starts raining after 5 innings and the umpires call the game after 5 innings and since 5 innings is long enough for an official game, it's game over and you don't get any refund or raincheck. Just because people know there will be another movie doesn't take away the surprise and there is still mystery as to how things will be resolved and who will come back or remain gone, that we had the bad guy winning was always a possibility, but it was never set in stone in everybody's minds. And given how so many are talking about it and treating it like its a big deal I'd say the majority of the people who have seen it were surprised and still shaken. Were people surprised Superman came back to life in Justice League? No, why not? Because WB put him on the marketing material which was a huge mistake on their party and actually had Henry Cavill listed in the credits which further spoiled his role in the narrative. I don't think he understand that people didn't know there would be a part 2. Especially seeing that Marvel changed the name of Avengers 4 from Infinity War part 2. People only now know that there will be another Avengers movie next year.
Also, that baseball analogy is flawed. It's more like going to a double-header and having to come back the next day for the second game.
|
|
|
Post by Nicko's Nose on May 12, 2018 3:00:01 GMT
Because Steppenwolf is a much better more developed villain than Thanos.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 12, 2018 4:34:46 GMT
Because Steppenwolf is a much better more developed villain than Thanos. I wonder if DC-Fan will like your comment despite the fact that you are being sarcastic.
|
|
|
Post by Hauntedknight87 on May 12, 2018 10:22:53 GMT
I don't know if I agree with Justice League being a "complete" film. There was a lot cut from the film to make a 2 hour film so they could rush it to theatres.
Still bummed that Zack never got to finish it.
|
|
|
Post by merh on May 13, 2018 0:16:51 GMT
Though I don't think it's a fair comparison. IW has ten years worth of backstory to call on and pay off. A better comparison is JL with the first Avengers film. That's WB's fault, isn't it? They want the money without the effort. They could have released 5 movies ahead of JL.
|
|
|
Post by merh on May 13, 2018 0:37:39 GMT
It's all fact: 1. The genre of movies is superhero movies. That's a fact. 2. In IW, Starlord tries to claim credit for the plan and says "For the record, this is MY plan". That's a fact. Yet no one told Strange to do what he did. Not Starlord's plan. After they dug up & frankensteined the guy Bats helped kill. So Marvel heroes were dealing with The Universe, not one planet. The Avengers saved the planet twice already & they will do it again. Thor saved Earth in Dark World. He died to save his friends in his first movie They are really pirates. More like Han Solo, they do good stuff on the side. Gamora is the one pushing them to do good, their conscience A child like Flash? One who lost her brother in her first heroic turn & now is asked to kill her lover? A villain seeking to destroy Tony Stark turned hero who has been on the run the last couple years thanks to Tony Stark? . Like Obi-Wan told Luke Vader killed his father? So Obi-Wan isn't a hero? Dr Strange knows the only path to victory & takes it. Not by a long shot
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 13, 2018 1:28:16 GMT
But Starlord had such a huge ego that he claimed it was HIS plan. Like Obi-Wan told Luke Vader killed his father? So Obi-Wan isn't a hero?[/qiote] Obi-an didn't give the Emperor a weapon that could kill half the universe like Doctor Strange did. Dr Strange knows the only path to victory & takes it. It's already been established that Doctor Strange lied about there being only 1 path to victory. We know for a fact ahtt there was at least another path to victory: If Thor had chopped off Thanos' head (which even Thanos said Thor should've done) instead of going for the chest, then Thor would've killed Thanos and that would've been a victory. But (as the Russos admitted), Thor was selfish and wanted to trash-talk Thanos befor killing Thanos so Thor intentionally let THanos live so he could trash-talk Thanos so Thor's selfishness resulted in Thanos being able to snap his fingers and kill more than half the universe.
|
|
|
Post by merh on May 13, 2018 2:04:02 GMT
But Starlord had such a huge ego that he claimed it was HIS plan. No. Look at Trump to see a huge ego. Though to be fair, he is a black hole of need praise Quill was a child when he was abducted by aliens after watching his mother die of cancer (he later found his father planted in her so he wouldnt want to return to earth). Same aliens threatened to eat him. It was the Dread Pirate Roberts for real as Quill knew if his usefulness ended, he was dinner. So, yeah. Mom spent time dying-say a year or so. Then the child is thrown in with a bunch of pirates who don't exactly seem like mature responsible male role models. Thanos as Gamora's stepdad actually seems more mature which is probably why she is more grounded than the rest of the crew. But go on bitching about a damaged character. We're talking maybe Bruce Wayne damaged & if you don't know Wayne is damaged, you have a problem. It was the one path to victory I'm a bit iffy on some of the Russo's logic Common practice is to aim for the chest as it is the larger target. Thor aiming for the head could have missed. I mean, hell, why not aim to slice the gauntlet arm off? Because a small move to the side & the flying projectile misses.
|
|
|
Post by coldenhaulfield on May 13, 2018 23:22:49 GMT
One thing I can say in JL's favor is that the entire team came together to fight their villain. In IW, the Avengers (and even GotG) spent most of the movie splintered off into factions across the cosmos. That being said, IW is still the better movie. Though I don't think it's a fair comparison. IW has ten years worth of backstory to call on and pay off. A better comparison is JL with the first Avengers film. That being said, the first Avengers is still the better movie. That's not what that means.
|
|
|
Post by DC-Fan on May 14, 2018 4:04:20 GMT
one of the themes is sacrificing the one you love most The main theme of Infinity War is: How NOT to be a hero, by being a selfish asshole who puts your own selfish wishes above the greater good and doesn't give a shot if half the universe is killed.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeJuryDredd on May 14, 2018 4:38:06 GMT
one of the themes is sacrificing the one you love most The main theme of Infinity War is: How NOT to be a hero, by being a selfish asshole who puts your own selfish wishes above the greater good and doesn't give a shot if half the universe is killed. False.
|
|