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Post by Cody™ on May 17, 2018 17:52:06 GMT
@graham
And the pregnancy is easily preventable if the couple behave responsibly and use some form of contraception.
You’re missing the point anyway. People do not spill their milk on purpose. We’re aware however of just what results in unprotected sex.
Again they should have thought of that before. Was easily preventable. Don’t know why you’re so quick to give the couple a free pass on their irresponsibility. [/quote]
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Post by Terrapin Station on May 17, 2018 17:59:55 GMT
@graham And the pregnancy is easily preventable if the couple behave responsibly and use some form of contraception. You’re missing the point anyway. People do not spill their milk on purpose. We’re aware however of just what results in unprotected sex. Again they should have thought of that before. Was easily preventable. Don’t know why you’re so quick to give the couple a free pass on their irresponsibility. What would you say makes a statement of the form "S has a responsibility to x" true?
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 18:01:16 GMT
@graham And the pregnancy is easily preventable if the couple behave responsibly and use some form of contraception. And spilling milk is easily preventable if you're a little careful about it. Yet people spill milk anyway. If your view is based on the idea that everyone should always behave carefully at all times, then you are not dealing with reality. No, you are missing the point. It's my analogy, I'm to one who gets to say what equates to what. In my analogy, using milk = sex, spilling milk = unwanted pregnancy - an unintended consequence of the action. In other words, people use milk on purpose, sometimes this has the accidental result that they spill it. People have sex on purpose, sometimes this has the accidental result that they get up the duff. "If people don't like having milk on the floor then they should have thought of that before they spilled it." Yeah, what a sensible worldview that is. Not always so easy. Birth control isn't 100%, sex isn't always voluntary, etc. Because irresponsibility is no crime, and is an inevitable result of human imperfection. The thing to do is deal with it when it happens.
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Post by gadreel on May 17, 2018 19:03:21 GMT
Reading your link on John Austin, the implication I come to is that it is a public decree, Hitler took great pains to communicate his wishes in euphemistic phrases and without committing them to paper or written orders, in actual fact the origin of the decision to begin killing jews is not documented, it is merely supposed (with very good evidence) that Hitler was the orignator. taking your link: In this case Hitler Where is that declared wish? There is no indication that Hitler gave any explicit order. To be fair there is a claim that a scribbled note by Himmler is evidence of a direct order, but that is still pretty fringe 20 years after its exposition. With regards your pictionary comment, haha, and yes I see your argument, but great pains were taken to distance Hitler from the final solution, he was supposed to come out of the war clean. Not sure why you're dwelling on Austin so much. "Reading your link on John Austin, the implication I come to is that it is a public decree, Hitler took great pains to communicate his wishes in euphemistic phrases and without committing them to paper or written orders, in actual fact the origin of the decision to begin killing jews is not documented, it is merely supposed (with very good evidence) that Hitler was the orignator." Fair enough. "Where is that declared wish? There is no indication that Hitler gave any explicit order. " Well obviously the go-ahead for the holocaust would have to been given by someone in power, which we can assume was Hitler, after all he was the Fuhrer. He probably gave a coded message in written form or just spoke to Himmler or whoever. I focused on John Austin because you brought him up. The method of delivery is exactly my point, if Hitler was so secretive about the order (and lets be clear he was so secretive that some people believe he did not give the order), then that hardly qualifies as legal in the way you are describing. Also in the case of the example (you used) with John Austin, the order would have to come from the fuhrer himself as the sovereign of the state.
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Post by Lugh on May 17, 2018 19:39:27 GMT
Not sure why you're dwelling on Austin so much. "Reading your link on John Austin, the implication I come to is that it is a public decree, Hitler took great pains to communicate his wishes in euphemistic phrases and without committing them to paper or written orders, in actual fact the origin of the decision to begin killing jews is not documented, it is merely supposed (with very good evidence) that Hitler was the orignator." Fair enough. "Where is that declared wish? There is no indication that Hitler gave any explicit order. " Well obviously the go-ahead for the holocaust would have to been given by someone in power, which we can assume was Hitler, after all he was the Fuhrer. He probably gave a coded message in written form or just spoke to Himmler or whoever. I focused on John Austin because you brought him up. The method of delivery is exactly my point, if Hitler was so secretive about the order (and lets be clear he was so secretive that some people believe he did not give the order), then that hardly qualifies as legal in the way you are describing. Also in the case of the example (you used) with John Austin, the order would have to come from the fuhrer himself as the sovereign of the state. Its common sense that Hitle either outright said the order or simply said it in code. What other way would he have done it?
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Post by Cody™ on May 17, 2018 19:58:36 GMT
@graham And the pregnancy is easily preventable if the couple behave responsibly and use some form of contraception. And spilling milk is easily preventable if you're a little careful about it. Yet people spill milk anyway. If your view is based on the idea that everyone should always behave carefully at all times, then you are not dealing with reality. No, you are missing the point. It's my analogy, I'm to one who gets to say what equates to what. In my analogy, using milk = sex, spilling milk = unwanted pregnancy - an unintended consequence of the action. In other words, people use milk on purpose, sometimes this has the accidental result that they spill it. People have sex on purpose, sometimes this has the accidental result that they get up the duff. "If people don't like having milk on the floor then they should have thought of that before they spilled it." Yeah, what a sensible worldview that is. Not always so easy. Birth control isn't 100%, sex isn't always voluntary, etc. Because irresponsibility is no crime, and is an inevitable result of human imperfection. The thing to do is deal with it when it happens. Getting pregnant? ...just a human mishap, like spilling the milk. I’ve heard it all now.
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Post by gadreel on May 17, 2018 20:40:53 GMT
I focused on John Austin because you brought him up. The method of delivery is exactly my point, if Hitler was so secretive about the order (and lets be clear he was so secretive that some people believe he did not give the order), then that hardly qualifies as legal in the way you are describing. Also in the case of the example (you used) with John Austin, the order would have to come from the fuhrer himself as the sovereign of the state. Its common sense that Hitle either outright said the order or simply said it in code. What other way would he have done it? That is the commonly accepted truth yes, although there is a theory that he never ordered it, it just gained momentum and was not sanctioned by him, to be clear I do not follow that theory, I believe Hitler ordered it. But the point I am making is that if it was ordered in secret is it really a law as the example of John Austin suggests, I mean if we take all commands no matter how public then Hitlers bedroom commands become law too.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2018 20:49:58 GMT
Getting pregnant? ...just a human mishap, like spilling the milk. I’ve heard it all now. And so once again you realise you can't make a cogent argument and so instead treat yourself to a little emotional outburst so that you can pretend you've won something. It's an interesting take on life. I'm glad you enjoy it.
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Post by goz on May 17, 2018 23:27:08 GMT
goz So if a person thinks peeing on their foot before having sex will prevent pregnancy, they simply chose poorly regarding birth control? in any event, the failure rate on your chart are including human error & negligence Still, I'm not sure why you are persisting in coming up with a reason why people have abortions when it's not necessary and especially when you are trying to link two stats with no evidence of having a link - abortions numbers to birth control failures. Why can't you simply say that abortions are justified all the the time and leave it at that. By saying that, there is no need for this pretend noble reason. The act itself is noble because the couple do nothing wrong for having sex - protected or not. That's funny! I didn't say any of that! I guess also that I don't like the misogynistic Christian male judgment of women, expressed in all your posts, leading to paternalistic solutions to their problems. Also:
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Post by mslo79 on Jun 1, 2018 7:38:21 GMT
No, because abortion is intrinsically evil.
it's pretty easy to see that liberals get this one wrong as conservatives are pro-life and liberals sugar-coat this evil act as a "choice" (i.e. pro-choice) when it's really a life issue when you cut through the BS. basically liberals put a persons "choice" higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around. if liberals can't even get that one correct it's not surprising they tend to go off the rails because they start supporting other immoral things (euthanasia/gay agenda etc). where does it end for them? ; next thing you know, they will support pedophilia and want 'rights' for it. that might sound laughable now, but give it some time.
someone who can't even get this issue correct, which is a serious one, I damn sure won't want making important decisions in general as human life is obviously of less value to them when they don't even respect life at it's most innocent stage which is in a mothers womb. if life is disposable to them at this stage then it's not going to be surprising if they are quick to dispose of it at other stages.
that's one of the major reasons I won't support liberals as they tend to be backwards in many areas and this is a major one.
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Post by Morgana on Jun 1, 2018 10:46:09 GMT
The only time I think abortion is justified, is where the health of the mother might be at risk, or in cases of rape.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 1, 2018 11:58:38 GMT
No, because abortion is intrinsically evil. it's pretty easy to see that liberals get this one wrong as conservatives are pro-life and liberals sugar-coat this evil act as a "choice" (i.e. pro-choice) when it's really a life issue when you cut through the BS. basically liberals put a persons "choice" higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around. if liberals can't even get that one correct it's not surprising they tend to go off the rails because they start supporting other immoral things (euthanasia/gay agenda etc). where does it end for them? ; next thing you know, they will support pedophilia and want 'rights' for it. that might sound laughable now, but give it some time. someone who can't even get this issue correct, which is a serious one, I damn sure won't want making important decisions in general as human life is obviously of less value to them when they don't even respect life at it's most innocent stage which is in a mothers womb. if life is disposable to them at this stage then it's not going to be surprising if they are quick to dispose of it at other stages. that's one of the major reasons I won't support liberals as they tend to be backwards in many areas and this is a major one. Just to check this logic, let's take a nationwide vote on this very subject, preferably in a Roman Catholic country where all the arguments are rehearsed for weeks beforehand. Oh that's right, we just did.
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 2, 2018 14:10:57 GMT
The only time I think abortion is justified, is where the health of the mother might be at risk, or in cases of rape. I would say the health of the mother being at risk is the only time it’s reasonably justified.
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