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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 20, 2018 7:37:36 GMT
Why has Theon not died? After all he's been through, it feels he cannot die because the authors want to give him a redemption arc. It also feels like he has fallen already and therefore will not be made to fall again. Can this be generalised as a rule? Do all major characters have to fall with some of them surviving it to the end? Can we speculate that only those who survived their fall will endure? These are Bran (crippled), Theon (Reek-ed), Jaime (crippled), Tyrion (sentenced to death), Sansa (raped and brutalised), Cersei (shamed), Jon (murdered), Ghost (forgotten). Lesser characters surviving their fall: The Hound (left for dead), Jorah (infected), Was there en exception? Have characters been made to fall twice in the story? Yes, there is Benjen Stark, at least until we see him again  I suppose Benjen, The Hound and Jorah count as minor characters, though. Not fallen and therefore likely to die: Arya, Brienne, Daenerys, Davos, Melisandre, Sam, VarysLesser characters: Bronn, Daario, Euron, Gendry, Gilly, Grey Worm, Podrick, Qyburn, Meera, Missandei, Robin Arryn, Yara. |
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Post by Aj_June on May 20, 2018 15:34:13 GMT
Why has Theon not died? After all he's been through, it feels he cannot die because the authors want to give him a redemption arc. It also feels like he has fallen already and therefore will not be made to fall again. Can this be generalised as a rule? Do all major characters have to fall with some of them surviving it to the end? Can we speculate that only those who survived their fall will endure? These are Bran (crippled), Theon (Reek-ed), Jaime (crippled), Tyrion (sentenced to death), Sansa (raped and brutalised), Cersei (shamed), Jon (murdered), Ghost (forgotten). Lesser characters surviving their fall: The Hound (left for dead), Jorah (infected), Was there en exception? Have characters been made to fall twice in the story? Yes, there is Benjen Stark, at least until we see him again I suppose Benjen, The Hound and Jorah count as minor characters, though. Not fallen and therefore likely to die: Arya, Brienne, Daenerys, Davos, Melisandre, Sam, VarysLesser characters: Bronn, Daario, Euron, Gendry, Gilly, Grey Worm, Podrick, Qyburn, Meera, Missandei, Robin Arryn, Yara. I do agree about higher likelihood of death for Lady Melisandre and Varys as was hinted by the Lady herself. Also, I am not sure if Varys has not fallen. His member was chopped off. Davos and Bronn represent something else. They were kinda born fallen. Their story is about rise. Arya almost seems a lock to die as her character has become darker in last 2 seasons. It will be unrealistic and stupid to save her. That said, I do agree that redemption characters have got slightly higher chances of survival than those who have never fallen but I am not sure if those who have not redeemed themselves after their fall stand any higher chance of survival compared to others. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 20, 2018 15:52:43 GMT
I do agree about higher likelihood of death for Lady Melisandre and Varys as was hinted by the Lady herself. Also, I am not sure if Varys has not fallen. His member was chopped off. Davos and Bronn represent something else. They were kinda born fallen. Their story is about rise. Arya almost seems a lock to die as her character has become darker in last 2 seasons. It will be unrealistic and stupid to save her. That said, I do agree that redemption characters have got slightly higher chances of survival than those who have never fallen but I am not sure if those who have not redeemed themselves after their fall stand any higher chance of survival compared to others. Varys didn't fall in the course of the story, his condition is initial, so I don't think it should "protect" him. On the other hand, he might not be a major character worthy of the treatment, although I do see him as having serious agency through the story. He is like Littlefinger. Davos could have fallen in the Blackwater battle. I wonder if he is big enough and Melisandre is also a 2nd row character, one that comes to help rather than one with defining stakes. The same could be said of Sam and Bronn is really just a sidekick. It leaves us with Arya, Brienne and Daenerys as non-fallen major characters who have a long series of chapters in the books. Then there is the question of necessary redemption. While I suspect this is in store for Theon, it must not apply to all. I won't be surprised if there is a massive killing near the very end, though. This theory of the fallen not falling again is probably limited to reaching the final climax only, maybe not to surviving it. I always felt Jon would die again and I expect Cersei to have to survive without Jaime. |
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Post by Aj_June on May 20, 2018 16:06:49 GMT
I do agree about higher likelihood of death for Lady Melisandre and Varys as was hinted by the Lady herself. Also, I am not sure if Varys has not fallen. His member was chopped off. Davos and Bronn represent something else. They were kinda born fallen. Their story is about rise. Arya almost seems a lock to die as her character has become darker in last 2 seasons. It will be unrealistic and stupid to save her. That said, I do agree that redemption characters have got slightly higher chances of survival than those who have never fallen but I am not sure if those who have not redeemed themselves after their fall stand any higher chance of survival compared to others. Varys didn't fall in the course of the story, his condition is initial, so I don't think it should "protect" him. On the other hand, he might not be a major character worthy of the treatment, although I do see him as having serious agency through the story. He is like Littlefinger. Davos could have fallen in the Blackwater battle. I wonder if he is big enough and Melisandre is also a 2nd row character, one that comes to help rather than one with defining stakes. The same could be said of Sam and Bronn is really just a sidekick. It leaves us with Arya, Brienne and Daenerys as non-fallen major characters who have a long series of chapters in the books. Then there is the question of necessary redemption. While I suspect this is in store for Theon, it must not apply to all. I won't be surprised if there is a massive killing near the very end, though. This theory of the fallen not falling again is probably limited to reaching the final climax only, maybe not to surviving it. I always felt Jon would die again and I expect Cersei to have to survive without Jaime. I have a kind of feeling that Brienne of Tarth might survive. The thing is that she has already performed what her character was intended to perform. She had to kill the killer of her King. She did that by killing King Stannis. She had to bring back two daughters of her Lady to the north. She saved Sansa from certain capture. Arya also returned. So Brienne has already successfully fulfilled her goals. I don't know if you would count the achievements of Brienne a redemption. I personally feel that death of King Renly was not her fault so there was nothing to redeem for her. But the fact that she is surviving even after doing her part gives you a feeling that she just might make it. I don't know if Jaime and her storyline will have a place in the last season. |
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Post by Marv on May 20, 2018 16:23:48 GMT
Varys didn't fall in the course of the story, his condition is initial, so I don't think it should "protect" him. On the other hand, he might not be a major character worthy of the treatment, although I do see him as having serious agency through the story. He is like Littlefinger. Davos could have fallen in the Blackwater battle. I wonder if he is big enough and Melisandre is also a 2nd row character, one that comes to help rather than one with defining stakes. The same could be said of Sam and Bronn is really just a sidekick. It leaves us with Arya, Brienne and Daenerys as non-fallen major characters who have a long series of chapters in the books. Then there is the question of necessary redemption. While I suspect this is in store for Theon, it must not apply to all. I won't be surprised if there is a massive killing near the very end, though. This theory of the fallen not falling again is probably limited to reaching the final climax only, maybe not to surviving it. I always felt Jon would die again and I expect Cersei to have to survive without Jaime. I have a kind of feeling that Brienne of Tarth might survive. The thing is that she has already performed what her character was intended to perform. She had to kill the killer of her King. She did that by killing King Stannis. She had to bring back two daughters of her Lady to the north. She saved Sansa from certain capture. Arya also returned. So Brienne has already successfully fulfilled her goals. I don't know if you would count the achievements of Brienne a redemption. I personally feel that death of King Renly was not her fault so there was nothing to redeem for her. But the fact that she is surviving even after doing her part gives you a feeling that she just might make it. I don't know if Jaime and her storyline will have a place in the last season. I see Brienne surviving. She has been likened to Ser Duncan the Tall. Ser Duncan’s story took him from Flea Bottom to squire to Hedge Knight to Kingsguard. It might be interesting to see Brienne follow a similar if slightly reversed path, already having been in a Kingsguard and personal protector to highborns, it’s be nice to see her story lead her to the life of a traveling Hedge Knight setting out to do good for the common folk, with Podrick in tow. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 20, 2018 16:25:18 GMT
I have a kind of feeling that Brienne of Tarth might survive. The thing is that she has already performed what her character was intended to perform. She had to kill the killer of her King. She did that by killing King Stannis. She had to bring back two daughters of her Lady to the north. She saved Sansa from certain capture. Arya also returned. So Brienne has already successfully fulfilled her goals. I don't know if you would count the achievements of Brienne a redemption. I personally feel that death of King Renly was not her fault so there was nothing to redeem for her. But the fact that she is surviving even after doing her part gives you a feeling that she just might make it. I don't know if Jaime and her storyline will have a place in the last season. I always thought Brienne was meant to fail at some point. Something will make her give up her principles, reconsider her certainties. This is how this story works. Her path is to become an oath-breaker. She might do it for Jaime. We'll see. |
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Post by Aj_June on May 20, 2018 16:27:22 GMT
I have a kind of feeling that Brienne of Tarth might survive. The thing is that she has already performed what her character was intended to perform. She had to kill the killer of her King. She did that by killing King Stannis. She had to bring back two daughters of her Lady to the north. She saved Sansa from certain capture. Arya also returned. So Brienne has already successfully fulfilled her goals. I don't know if you would count the achievements of Brienne a redemption. I personally feel that death of King Renly was not her fault so there was nothing to redeem for her. But the fact that she is surviving even after doing her part gives you a feeling that she just might make it. I don't know if Jaime and her storyline will have a place in the last season. I see Brienne surviving. She has been likened to Ser Duncan the Tall. Ser Duncan’s story took him from Flea Bottom to squire to Hedge Knight to Kingsguard. It might be interesting to see Brienne follow a similar if slightly reversed path, already having been in a Kingsguard and personal protector to highborns, it’s be nice to see her story lead her to the life of a traveling Hedge Knight setting out to do good for the common folk, with Podrick in tow. I have read about Ser Duncan from wiki only but you make a good point about story being reversed for her. To be honest I would love to see Brienne survive simply because she has displayed high moral values in middle of a very corrupt world. |
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Post by Marv on May 20, 2018 16:32:09 GMT
I see Brienne surviving. She has been likened to Ser Duncan the Tall. Ser Duncan’s story took him from Flea Bottom to squire to Hedge Knight to Kingsguard. It might be interesting to see Brienne follow a similar if slightly reversed path, already having been in a Kingsguard and personal protector to highborns, it’s be nice to see her story lead her to the life of a traveling Hedge Knight setting out to do good for the common folk, with Podrick in tow. I have read about Ser Duncan from wiki only but you make a good point about story being reversed for her. To be honest I would love to see Brienne survive simply because she has displayed high moral values in middle of a very corrupt world. If you get a chance read the Dunk and Egg stories. They are short and give a glimpse of the world about a hundred years prior to Game of Thrones. A lot of the plots deal with fallout from the Dance with Dragons war that pitted the Targaryens against each other. Ser Duncan is a great character that’s little more than a good natured brute at the beginning of his tale. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 20, 2018 16:34:54 GMT
I won't mind if Brienne dies to save Jaime. I want my royal wedding, after all… |
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Post by Aj_June on May 20, 2018 16:39:37 GMT
I won't mind if Brienne dies to save Jaime. I want my royal wedding, after all…
lol at throwing in "royal wedding" reference at right time. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 20, 2018 16:55:52 GMT
lol at throwing in "royal wedding" reference at right time. I did it last year too. It's becoming a habit  |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 20, 2018 22:53:54 GMT
Why has Theon not died? After all he's been through, it feels he cannot die because the authors want to give him a redemption arc. It also feels like he has fallen already and therefore will not be made to fall again. Can this be generalised as a rule? Do all major characters have to fall with some of them surviving it to the end? Can we speculate that only those who survived their fall will endure? These are Bran (crippled), Theon (Reek-ed), Jaime (crippled), Tyrion (sentenced to death), Sansa (raped and brutalised), Cersei (shamed), Jon (murdered), Ghost (forgotten). Lesser characters surviving their fall: The Hound (left for dead), Jorah (infected), Was there en exception? Have characters been made to fall twice in the story? Yes, there is Benjen Stark, at least until we see him again I suppose Benjen, The Hound and Jorah count as minor characters, though. Not fallen and therefore likely to die: Arya, Brienne, Daenerys, Davos, Melisandre, Sam, VarysLesser characters: Bronn, Daario, Euron, Gendry, Gilly, Grey Worm, Podrick, Qyburn, Meera, Missandei, Robin Arryn, Yara. If characters who have one scene or supporting minor roles survive this I won't like it I just don't like it , so they can sit around a bonfire and tell the story I didn't even like that spoiler of Danys and jons baby surviving I don't care about it anyway she handed him a dead baby dragon skull that's a sign it will die unless D&D turn the show into a daytime soap opera |
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