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May 26, 2018 22:58:43 GMT
Post by them1ghtyhumph on May 26, 2018 22:58:43 GMT
One of life’s mysteries how so many of you leftist weirdos, who usually piss and moan over some of the most trivial human “injustices” , view freedom of abortion(legalised murder of the most innocent amongst us) somehow as a “progressive” thing. I mean imagine celebrating the prospective murders of more pre-born babies... I'm imagining it..........WOW, I like it.
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May 27, 2018 2:00:22 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 2:00:22 GMT
One of life’s mysteries how so many of you leftist weirdos, who usually piss and moan over some of the most trivial human “injustices” , view freedom of abortion(legalised murder of the most innocent amongst us) somehow as a “progressive” thing. I mean imagine celebrating the prospective murders of more pre-born babies... I know, right? It's so mysterious and unexplainable that it's almost as if it's actually your understanding and interpretation of the situation is badly wrong. But of course we all know that's impossible. Failure to see that other people may have a different take on things than you do? Impossible!
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Lugh
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May 27, 2018 8:14:13 GMT
Post by Lugh on May 27, 2018 8:14:13 GMT
Lad you know fuck all about my country. Ireland stopped giving a damn about religion a long time ago. Abortion stops organisms from enjoying the pleasures of life. Ireland is becoming a liberal shithole sadly. If Ireland stopped caring about religion a long time ago, abortion wouldn't still be illegal in 2018. No organism is deprived of "enjoying the pleasures of life" by an abortion (well, maybe the father if he wanted the child to be born, I suppose). Aborting the foetus ensures that it will never need the pleasures of life and thus can never be deprived of them. Not entirely surprising that you turned out to be a religious fanatic, I have to say. Because you can only oppose abortion for religious reasons right? As an Irish person this referendum has been everywhere and it was impossible to escape for the last two or three weeks. Not once did I ever hear someone who was pro-life make a religious argument against abortion. "Not entirely surprising that you turned out to be a religious fanatic, I have to say." lol what? For all you know I am an atheist. " No organism is deprived of "enjoying the pleasures of life" by an abortion (well, maybe the father if he wanted the child to be born, I suppose). Aborting the foetus ensures that it will never need the pleasures of life and thus can never be deprived of them." Need the pleasures of life for what?
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Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 10:41:07 GMT
I believe women should be free to do whatever the fuck she wants to do with her body, PROVIDING it doesn’t harm another human. Replace "human" with "person", and I agree. Fetuses aren't persons. Animals aren't persons. Therefore neither are "innocent".You have avoided the question whether you are a vegetarian. I am not surprised. If not innocent, what crime or offence is a fetus guilty of exactly?
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May 27, 2018 14:36:03 GMT
Post by phludowin on May 27, 2018 14:36:03 GMT
what crime or offence is a fetus guilty of exactly? You tell me. You brought up crime and offence. I didn't.
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May 27, 2018 16:08:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 16:08:01 GMT
You tell me. You brought up crime and offence. I didn't. You brought up the nonsense that allegedly a fetus is not innocent. If you think a fetus is not innocent then it naturally follows that you believe it’s culpable. Question is what exactly is it culpable of?
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May 27, 2018 17:23:27 GMT
goz likes this
Post by phludowin on May 27, 2018 17:23:27 GMT
If you think a fetus is not innocent then it naturally follows that you believe it’s culpable. No it doesn't. It's not able to be guilty of anything. It's excused from criminal liability. Just like animals or non-living entities. A rock can kill a person; but will never be guilty of murder. And entities that can't be guilty by definition can't be innocent either. At least that's my opinion. Persons are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore it doesn't make sense to assume innocence for entities that can't be guilty.
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Post by goz on May 27, 2018 20:46:24 GMT
You brought up the nonsense that allegedly a fetus is not innocent. If you think a fetus is not innocent then it naturally follows that you believe it’s culpable. Question is what exactly is it culpable of? Phludowin said it better butt I will just reinforce that it is neither, except in the mind of Christians who use this concept to add weight to an argument that is short on logic already. 'Innocent little children and foetuses' gets the emotions going and I wish hypocritical Catholic priests and their supporters had taken a little more notice of the concept.
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May 27, 2018 20:49:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2018 20:49:54 GMT
Replace "human" with "person", and I agree. Fetuses aren't persons. Animals aren't persons. Therefore neither are "innocent".You have avoided the question whether you are a vegetarian. I am not surprised. If not innocent, what crime or offence is a fetus guilty of exactly? Do you not believe that all humans are inherently sinful by nature?
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Lugh
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May 27, 2018 20:54:17 GMT
Post by Lugh on May 27, 2018 20:54:17 GMT
If you think a fetus is not innocent then it naturally follows that you believe it’s culpable. No it doesn't. It's not able to be guilty of anything. It's excused from criminal liability. Just like animals or non-living entities. A rock can kill a person; but will never be guilty of murder. And entities that can't be guilty by definition can't be innocent either. At least that's my opinion. Persons are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore it doesn't make sense to assume innocence for entities that can't be guilty. en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/innocent"Persons are innocent until proven guilty. Therefore it doesn't make sense to assume innocence for entities that can't be guilty." This is just..........wow. why a legal conception of innocence makes a fetus not innocent in the non-legal sense of the word is a mystery to me inter alia. Inter alia being your failure to understand basic logic like "innocent until proven guilty." means that something that is not guilty (a fetus) is innocent. If innocent and guilty are binary oppositions (and they are) then one that is not the other is the other.
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May 27, 2018 20:56:42 GMT
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 20:56:42 GMT
Phludowin said it better butt I will just reinforce that it is neither, except in the mind of Christians who use this concept to add weight to an argument that is short on logic already. 'Innocent little children and foetuses' gets the emotions going and I wish hypocritical Catholic priests and their supporters had taken a little more notice of the concept. Phludowin doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. Of course a clueless deranged idiotic lefty like you is going to agree with his nonsense.
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May 27, 2018 21:13:55 GMT
Post by goz on May 27, 2018 21:13:55 GMT
Phludowin said it better butt I will just reinforce that it is neither, except in the mind of Christians who use this concept to add weight to an argument that is short on logic already. 'Innocent little children and foetuses' gets the emotions going and I wish hypocritical Catholic priests and their supporters had taken a little more notice of the concept. Phludowin doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. Of course a clueless deranged idiotic lefty like you is going to agree with his nonsense. Why would you claim that a foetus is EITHER innocent or guilty when it is neither and just a foetus?
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May 27, 2018 21:22:49 GMT
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 21:22:49 GMT
Phludowin doesn’t have a clue what he’s talking about. Of course a clueless deranged idiotic lefty like you is going to agree with his nonsense. Why would you claim that a foetus is EITHER innocent or guilty when it is neither and just a foetus? That’s dumb even for you. Let me dumb it down for you so you understand. A fetus is a human, and a human fetus has not done anything that would make him/her not innocent. Thus it is innocent. Therefore abortion is the killing of an innocent(doesn’t get more innocent) human being.
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May 27, 2018 21:28:37 GMT
Post by goz on May 27, 2018 21:28:37 GMT
Why would you claim that a foetus is EITHER innocent or guilty when it is neither and just a foetus? That’s dumb even for you. Let me dumb it down for you so you understand. A fetus is a human, and a human fetus has not done anything that would make him/her not innocent. Thus it is innocent. Therefore abortion is the killing of an innocent(doesn’t get more innocent) human being. No, a foetus is a 'potential human' without the wherewithal to be either guilty or innocent. It has neither the capacity nor the intent. You are being anthropomorphic in attributing such a concept to it. The application of this concept to it is therefore erroneous.
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May 27, 2018 21:33:32 GMT
Post by gadreel on May 27, 2018 21:33:32 GMT
Why would you claim that a foetus is EITHER innocent or guilty when it is neither and just a foetus? That’s dumb even for you. Let me dumb it down for you so you understand. A fetus is a human, and a human fetus has not done anything that would make him/her not innocent. Thus it is innocent. Therefore abortion is the killing of an innocent(doesn’t get more innocent) human being. So we are not all born under the guilt of original sin?
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May 27, 2018 21:52:36 GMT
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 21:52:36 GMT
gozThere’s no such thing as a “potential human’ ffs. A human is a human. Biologically we’re humans from the moment we’re conceived. As the saying goes, there is no “potential human”, just a human being with potential. Please! . A fetus is a sentient human being. It feels pain, has emotions, experiences fear. So WTF are you talking about Anthropomorphism?!
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May 27, 2018 22:05:25 GMT
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 22:05:25 GMT
That’s dumb even for you. Let me dumb it down for you so you understand. A fetus is a human, and a human fetus has not done anything that would make him/her not innocent. Thus it is innocent. Therefore abortion is the killing of an innocent(doesn’t get more innocent) human being. So we are not all born under the guilt of original sin?I don’t believe the doctrine of original sin is biblical. I believe we’re all born with a sinful nature but being born with a propensity to do something doesn’t mean you’ve actually done it. Babies are innocent.
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May 27, 2018 22:44:15 GMT
Post by gadreel on May 27, 2018 22:44:15 GMT
So we are not all born under the guilt of original sin?I don’t believe the doctrine of original sin is biblical. I believe we’re all born with a sinful nature but being born with a propensity to do something doesn’t mean you’ve actually done it. Babies are innocent. You don't believe in the doctrine of original sin that says that people are born with a sinful nature, but you believe we are born with a sinful nature?
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May 27, 2018 22:56:02 GMT
Post by Cody™ on May 27, 2018 22:56:02 GMT
I don’t believe the doctrine of original sin is biblical. I believe we’re all born with a sinful nature but being born with a propensity to do something doesn’t mean you’ve actually done it. Babies are innocent. You don't believe in the doctrine of original sin that says that people are born with a sinful nature, but you believe we are born with a sinful nature? No, the doctrine of original sin teaches that all human beings inherit, not only the tendency to sin, but actual guilt for the sin of Adam. The second part is what I find unbiblical. It’s what originally gave rise to infant baptism.
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May 27, 2018 23:20:39 GMT
Post by goz on May 27, 2018 23:20:39 GMT
Furt goz There’s no such thing as a “potential human’ ffs. A human is a human. Biologically we’re humans from the moment we’re conceived. As the saying goes, there is no “potential human”, just a human being with potential. Please! . A fetus is a sentient human being. It feels pain, has emotions, experiences fear. So WTF are you talking about Anthropomorphism?! I guess, Cody that you neither read not understood my views on the foetus having a sliding scale of sentience. No, a foetus in the early weeks in NOT a human and not a person...it is indeed a potential human and person, gradually developing and becoming so over time. This, as I pointed out before, is the whole point of difference in our views. I have biology and science on my side and you have your religious belief. Furthermore you are attributing qualities to an early clump of cells that are biologically impossible until a certain level of development is achieved.
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