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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 4:11:29 GMT
Ebert described Ackbar as a cross between a Tyrannosaurus Rex and Charles de Gaulle.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 4:13:59 GMT
This fight between the Teddy Bear aliens and the Empire forces reminds me, of all things, of the final fight between the Bogeymen and the Toy Soldiers in the Laurel and Hardy Babes in Toyland…
Anyone know if George Lucas is an L&H fan?
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 4:33:41 GMT
Will finish up thoughts tomorrow morning.
Basically: liked it, didn’t love it as I did with Empire. But it’s still very entertaining.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 15:10:42 GMT
So here we go, and I have at long last finished the original Star Wars trilogy—and, as I wrote, really enjoyed it. I wish I had seen these movies as a kid—they appeal so much to wonder and imagination, as well as being exactly the kind of magic/wizards/knights in shining armor riding to the defense of the lovely maiden stuff that I always loved (and still do, to be honest)—but it’s nice to have seen them now, still. With that said, I think Return of the Jedi is the weakest of the three, though there was still a lot that I liked and the whole thing was very entertaining. The Empire Strikes Back is big and epic and riveting, yet still finds time for character moments and world-building; Star Wars is goofy fun, seemingly effortlessly entertaining; and Return of the Jedi just isn’t quite as good as those standards. It seems like Lucas et al. were striving (after the Muppet Show in the beginning) for a smaller, character-centered movie, which is great, but it just doesn’t feel like the big climax that the series deserves. I want the Emperor (i.e., Dr. Bellows) to go out in style, with fanfare and a sense that this is going to change the universe; I want Darth Vader’s redemption to feel like a real catharsis, a sense that the world is being made right again. Instead, everything just kinda poops out, and we get bathos in lieu of true culmination of an epical saga. Also, as I wrote, I wasn’t as fond of the Jabba palace stuff, which seemed out of a weaker Star Trek episode; Han gets even less to do than in Star Wars, and far less than in Empire; Alec Guinness appears mostly to spew exposition, making me miss even more his first appearance as Obi-Wan; and Yoda’s death seems as anticlimactic as the Emperor’s and Vader’s. But— but!—there is still good stuff. Everyone’s acting has improved, and the characters are truly lovable—I’m interested in these people and genuinely want them to succeed. I was actually rather disappointed with the knowledge that I’m not going to be seeing them again, because I feel like we’re just getting a taste of their story, but on the other hand perhaps that’s exactly the point. Star Wars, even more than Indiana Jones, is an example of what I’ve called an outward-facing story: it’s not some kind of realist Austenian narrative (thank God), showing us characters and telling us to connect with them because they’re so well-developed and real. Rather, it centers the experience in the viewer himself, asking him to see himself in these characters, to see himself as the hero doing these things. If that makes any sense. Technically, too, it’s very good; I liked the fight through the forest on the rocket-bikes, and the low-lighted scene where Luke talks to Leia about their parentage. The escape from Jabba’s lunatic-bin is also well-done. And, on the whole, I had a lot of fun while watching it. It may be the weakest of the three, but what a strong and fun series. I’ve had a great time sharing my experience with all of you guys, too. Thanks, everybody!
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Post by BATouttaheck on Sept 5, 2018 17:11:10 GMT
I had a lot of fun watching you watching it, Nalkarj ! Thanks for sharing !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:16:00 GMT
Nalkarj We NEED more elaboration on your thoughts and feelings about Admiral Ackbar
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 17:19:45 GMT
Nalkarj We NEED more elaboration concerning your thoughts and feelings about Admiral Ackbar Admiral Ackbar-Tyrannosaur-de Gaulle? That Admiral Ackbar? He was great! And very funny in his short screen time, though that might have been because I was expecting him (because of, well, you guys…) and I found this serious dialogue coming out of that mask to be hilarious. I would have been happy with him in all three of the movies, as the commander of the fleet. And the voice matched perfectly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:29:24 GMT
NalkarjA couple of fun facts for you about the behind the scenes changes/drama... -Harrison Ford lobbied hard for them to kill Han Solo. He thought it would add more emotional weight. - The Second Death Star was something that Lucas wanted. In the original draft Luke goes with Vader to meet the Emperor on a Blade Runner style city planet (A concept reused in the prequels) -Leia as Luke's sister was another late addition. Originally there was going to be a second trilogy dealing with Luke and his long lost sister. Leia would've presumably been written out of the series. -Co-creator Gary Kurtz vehemently disagreed with the inclusion of the Ewoks. He claims Lucas was more interested in selling toys than telling a good story. He left the series for good during production of this movie.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 17:34:56 GMT
Very, very interesting, Admi—I mean, er, @forceghostackbar .
The script did seem like it was written quickly, a first draft—or changed just before or during production.
I wouldn’t have wanted them to kill Han, though, yes, it would have added emotional weight. But I like the character so much that I would have been disappointed by that one.
The second Death Star almost seemed like it negated the first movie—nah, if ya destroy Death Star, the Empire’ll just build another one! A city-planet sounds like a great idea.
Leia as Luke’s sister is fine by me, but there’s just not much done with it. Maybe just to clarify that Solo’s her love interest, not Luke?
I was fine with the Ewoks. I’d read about the toy thing, but they looked better than I’d expected and in some ways reminded me of Tolkien’s hobbits, actually.
I was amused by the moon’s being named Endor, especially as I’d compared the Emperor to a witch! And there are ghosts in the story too! Lucas went and read his Bible—innit? Or it innit?
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 5, 2018 17:41:42 GMT
Yeah, I just looked up some of the changes from the original draft, too, and I think I liked some of the original concepts better…
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 5, 2018 18:48:22 GMT
Yeah, I just looked up some of the changes from the original draft, too, and I think I liked some of the original concepts better… My esteemed colleague and fellow Ackbar forgot to include one interesting tidbit: Lucas' original idea was that the primitive-jungle-living "Wookie" race ( like Chewie ) would topple the far-more-advanced Galactic Empire by using bare bones guerrilla tactics ( much like the Vietnamese defeated the USA ) After he showed that "Wookies" were technologically astute enough to pilot and repair starships, he made up the "Ewoks" to take their place in the story!
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Post by Primemovermithrax Pejorative on Sept 6, 2018 0:57:20 GMT
-Harrison Ford lobbied hard for them to kill Han Solo. He thought it would add more emotional weight. - The Second Death Star was something that Lucas wanted. In the original draft Luke goes with Vader to meet the Emperor on a Blade Runner style city planet (A concept reused in the prequels) But how would he have died? If he had been on the Millennium Falcon he could have crashed it into the Death Star.
I prefer the BR city planet as a location for them to meet. That Death Star set was sterile. I also didnt like the guy who played the Imperial officer "I need more men." He was very dull. David Warner would make a good Imperial officer guy. What if the sequels had a former Imperial Officer as a villain (I think that was in one of the books).
I think they should have had Jabba on a planet other than Tattooine. So Luke grows up on a backwater planet that also happens to have an Al Capone type villain?
I think the planet should have been industrial islands and water (Jabba seems like an aquatic creature) with spaceships circling the planet in security.
Maybe the Sarlaac and Rancour should have been combined into a single creature. Why bother having Luke fight a creature in a pit and then have to fight another creature in a pit?
I know that originally there was another creature on the Endor moon called the Yuzzum which had long legs-so they would dwell on the plains(this was later adapted for The Phantom Menace).
The Ewok tv movies had that giant monster the Gorax-that should have been in the movie to jazz up the forests.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 7, 2018 18:19:29 GMT
So, question for the panel…
Should I watch the prequels? The sequels? (I’ve been told both here and by everyone I know “in real life” that the sequels stink.) The much-maligned Christmas special around the holidays?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 7, 2018 18:34:13 GMT
So, question for the panel… Should I watch the prequels? The sequels? (I’ve been told both here and by everyone I know “in real life” that the sequels stink.) The much-maligned Christmas special around the holidays? With you coming fresh off watching Return of the Jedi, I am going to go ahead and recommend STAR WARS Episode 7 The Force Awakens, next. Why? Because it is the most similar to Return of the Jedi, visually and tonally ( out of all the spinoff films ) After that, you might as well forge ahead with STAR WARS Episode 8 The Last Jedi
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 7, 2018 18:43:16 GMT
So, question for the panel… Should I watch the prequels? The sequels? (I’ve been told both here and by everyone I know “in real life” that the sequels stink.) The much-maligned Christmas special around the holidays? With you coming fresh off watching Return of the Jedi, I am going to go ahead and recommend STAR WARS Episode 7 The Force Awakens, next. Why? Because it is the most similar to Return of the Jedi, visually and tonally ( out of all the spinoff films ) After that, you might as well forge ahead with STAR WARS Episode 8 The Last Jedi
Interesting. Oft-referenced Californian Star Wars-loving pal of mine says that they’re not very faithful to the characters. I had intended to look into the prequels next (after, er, several other movies that are on my to-see list), but you think I should go ahead with the sequels?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 7, 2018 18:51:02 GMT
With you coming fresh off watching Return of the Jedi, I am going to go ahead and recommend STAR WARS Episode 7 The Force Awakens, next. Why? Because it is the most similar to Return of the Jedi, visually and tonally ( out of all the spinoff films ) After that, you might as well forge ahead with STAR WARS Episode 8 The Last Jedi
Interesting. Oft-referenced Californian Star Wars-loving pal of mine says that they’re not very faithful to the characters. I had intended to look into the prequels next (after, er, several other movies that are on my to-see list), but you think I should go ahead with the sequels? That's my advice. The prequels can be watched anytime. Interesting enough story, but they do not look or feel anything like the other films. I was actually going to recommend Rogue One and SOLO, before them.
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Post by Nalkarj on Sept 7, 2018 19:14:39 GMT
Thanks, President Ackbar™ ! Much appreciated. I guess coldenhaulfield ’ll make the case for the prequels… And no one will for the Christmas special. I almost want to see it just because of how bad it’s supposed to be. How bad is bad? Bad-bad?
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Sept 7, 2018 22:03:47 GMT
Interesting. Oft-referenced Californian Star Wars-loving pal of mine says that they’re not very faithful to the characters. I had intended to look into the prequels next (after, er, several other movies that are on my to-see list), but you think I should go ahead with the sequels? That's my advice. The prequels can be watched anytime. Interesting enough story, but they do not look or feel anything like the other films. I was actually going to recommend Rogue One and SOLO, before them. Interesting perspective. I suppose you could do it that way too.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 8, 2018 0:45:09 GMT
That's my advice. The prequels can be watched anytime. Interesting enough story, but they do not look or feel anything like the other films. I was actually going to recommend Rogue One and SOLO, before them. Interesting perspective. I suppose you could do it that way too. Personally, I am a Skywalker-story purist, so I could easily live with just the Lucas films. But, I figured a new viewer, who hasn't seen any of them, might be better off flowing from the old looking OT, to the semi-modern looking Disney films, to the ultra sleek looking PT. That's my theory, anyway.
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Sept 8, 2018 15:01:07 GMT
Nalkarj congrats, "you have taken your first step into a larger world." How to proceed from this point? Even I, as devout Prequelist, would also recommend the sequels first, as you will find (unnecessary added) closure on the lead characters and their stories. Also the sequels are...well let's say you have basically already seen them..., and it will be fun to compare their merits to the OT. The Prequels, more than the originals, are a three three act play telling about the slow fall of democracy and the rise of demagogues. It's much more political/dystopian, less fairy-tale/adventurous than the originals. Also, I have my doubts that you make it through Ep I (Phantom Menace) as you will meet guys like this (who drove a great many adult fans furiously insane) But it's ultimately worth the run, as these are very imaginative and original movies.
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