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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 0:36:59 GMT
I won't lie, people can and do take religion too far the wrong way. That is not usually the problem though. It is usually the state pretending to act in the name of religion that can do the serious damage. I dislike being put in categories myself, but that doesn't stop me from saying what I think about all sorts of things. The state of pretending to act in the name of religion, IS when religion gets taken too far the wrong way, regardless of belief in it or not. It is then being used a scapegoat, selective reasoning\agendas, or for disloyal and corrupt control and manipulations. If there was NO religion, then what excuses will people have to use?
If there were no religion people wouldn't need excuses.
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Post by goz on Jun 7, 2018 0:45:45 GMT
Well, aren't YOU speshul? Let's face it, you need to if you look like that! Still in the running for Miss America though!
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Post by yougotastewgoinbaby on Jun 7, 2018 0:50:05 GMT
Well, I liked the title track of Marquee Moon, but I could think of plenty of other bands I’d rather listen to.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 7, 2018 4:10:34 GMT
I have not kept a television since 2006. I am not a spiritual person so I usually do not call the things that I love as god.
That said if you asked me what are the things that are most special to me then I will say food is the most important thing in my life. I think a lot about food. Sometimes I finish a meal and then start planning about the next one. Game of cricket is also very important to me though over the years I have been slightly losing interest in it. Music/Movie is also an important part of my life. Lastly, I like travelling and seeing different cultures!
There was a time I was interested in politics. Over the years I lost interest in politics. In fact I have developed a very strong dislike for partisans. Believe it or not but I consider most of the people on this board to be partisans. If it means anything to you then I applaud you Arlon for not batting for wicked politicians like Trump or other republicans. Even though you may have your own reasons for doing that which I may not agree with as well. I do not agree with 99.99% (tending to infinity) things you say but I do praise you for not batting for the likes of Trump. Many of the religious people of USA are hypocrites in this regard. They accept someone as trashy as Trump just because they hate liberals.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 8:55:37 GMT
I have not kept a television since 2006. I am not a spiritual person so I usually do not call the things that I love as god. That said if you asked me what are the things that are most special to me then I will say food is the most important thing in my life. I think a lot about food. Sometimes I finish a meal and then start planning about the next one. Game of cricket is also very important to me though over the years I have been slightly losing interest in it. Music/Movie is also an important part of my life. Lastly, I like travelling and seeing different cultures! There was a time I was interested in politics. Over the years I lost interest in politics. In fact I have developed a very strong dislike for partisans. Believe it or not but I consider most of the people on this board to be partisans. If it means anything to you then I applaud you Arlon for not batting for wicked politicians like Trump or other republicans. Even though you may have your own reasons for doing that which I may not agree with as well. I do not agree with 99.99% (tending to infinity) things you say but I do praise you for not batting for the likes of Trump. Many of the religious people of USA are hypocrites in this regard. They accept someone as trashy as Trump just because they hate liberals. So far as it's possible to be a gourmet and stay in excellent health too, more power to you on that. Both major political parties in the United States are struggling with their identities. The Republican Party has been struggling for many years with strong open differences, the "Tea Party" and so on. The Democratic Party is lately having an identity crisis too. I don't have the surveys to confirm it but I suspect the "neither" party crowd is growing to record levels, and for good reasons. Before Abraham Lincoln the Republican Party (called the "Whigs" until then) was the party of a strong central government and the Democratic Party was a check on the power of government. Despite what they're both saying lately, it appears that they are returning to their original roles. I expect both parties will eventually develop a more tempered identity more people can work with. In my old age I'm finding mahjong more relaxing than chess. Maybe I should change my avatar.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2018 9:48:34 GMT
If there were no religion people wouldn't need excuses. If there were no religion then there would be fewer things to find excuses for.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 9:53:32 GMT
If there were no religion people wouldn't need excuses. If there were no religion then there would be fewer things to find excuses for. If there were no religion this would be North Korea.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2018 9:54:39 GMT
If there were no religion then there would be fewer things to find excuses for. If there were no religion this would be North Korea. If heaven existed, it would be like North Korea.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 10:25:31 GMT
If there were no religion this would be North Korea. If heaven existed, it would be like North Korea. I can think of better examples of mostly atheist countries, for example South Korea. They learned a few lessons. Let's be honest here, the chance of you moving to North Korea and liking it is zero. Atheism tends to work better in racially homologous countries, but that doesn't mean it works very well. It certainly does not. It works as well as it does because it has no racial problems to solve.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2018 10:56:47 GMT
If heaven existed, it would be like North Korea. Arlon: I can think of better examples of mostly atheist countries, for example South Korea. They learned a few lessons. I'd rather be in the 'mostly atheist' society of the South than the one permeated by a personality cult and with a constant fear of punishment visited down the generations, like the North. In effect the North has it's god, it is just that he is not the one worshiped by you. A thousand years ago Kim would be claiming direct celestial descent and would be surrounded by priests. I suspect the chances of me ever going to the supposed Christian heaven and liking it are pretty much that, too lol.. Rather a non-sequitur since atheism has nothing to say about racial problems. However plenty in the past have certainly taken Gen 6:9 (the bit about Noah being "perfect in his generations")as grounds for justifying racist politics. This while the Bible has little to say, if anything, about racial hatred (God even occasionally turning his wrath on very distinct communities and populations) - and infamously 'going along' with slavery - an institution itself usually representing a severe form of racism.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 11:46:04 GMT
If there were no religion this would be North Korea. Not having any religion, doesn't mean that one edges out the holistic, connected and centered nature of our beings. It's just not looking at god as a separate deity. North Korea is about oppression of it's people and it's fearless human leader is turned into a god. People who have no religion often substitute something worse. This thread makes that especially clear.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 11:57:55 GMT
See how your mind works. Whenever atheism is obviously the problem you blame religion. People who have no religion often substitute something worse. This thread makes that especially clear. No it is not. Look at an atheist country. Notice it has no racial problem to solve, it's racially homogenous.
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Post by drystyx on Jun 7, 2018 13:06:32 GMT
If there were no religion people wouldn't need excuses. If there were no religion then there would be fewer things to find excuses for. Well, yeah, because "savage innocents" aren't innocent at all, and don't feel a need to excuse killing, cheating, stealing, destroying. So, yeah, there are fewer things to find excuses for, because all the hate and evil doesn't need an excuse for such people. Such people were the Canaanites and others who brutalized the people in ancient days.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2018 13:30:11 GMT
FF: I'd rather be in the 'mostly atheist' society of the South than the one permeated by a personality cult and with a constant fear of punishment visited down the generations, like the North. In effect the North has it's god, it is just that he is not the one worshiped by you. Arlon: See how your mind works. Whenever atheism is obviously the problem you blame religion. People who have no religion often substitute something worse. This thread makes that especially clear. Something like the secular International Convention of Human Rights? Or the American Constitution, that specifically kept religion and the state apart? How did that work out? Alternatively, look around the world, how many faith-justified terrors, theocracies, religious dictatorships and failed caliphates can one see? And, according to many is not atheism a 'religion' while, according to you, lately do not some worship the 'gods' of money, military prowess etc? Make yer mind up. Arlon: No it is not. Look at an atheist country. Notice it has no racial problem to solve, it's racially homogenous.[/quote] And, as already observed, a lack of belief in the deliberate nature is a matter of intellect, not race. I hope that helps.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 7, 2018 13:32:51 GMT
If there were no religion then there would be fewer things to find excuses for. Well, yeah, because "savage innocents" aren't innocent at all, and don't feel a need to excuse killing, cheating, stealing, destroying. So, yeah, there are fewer things to find excuses for, because all the hate and evil doesn't need an excuse for such people. Such people were the Canaanites and others who brutalized the people in ancient days. And, according to the Bible and the Qu'ran, the responses were often equal martial and extreme, justified in each instance by the 'one, true faith'. Not to mention the cruelties meted out by other religions in South America and elsewhere.
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Post by goz on Jun 7, 2018 21:56:21 GMT
Not having any religion, doesn't mean that one edges out the holistic, connected and centered nature of our beings. It's just not looking at god as a separate deity. North Korea is about oppression of it's people and it's fearless human leader is turned into a god. People who have no religion often substitute something worse. This thread makes that especially clear. Best generalisation of the day. unfortunately you used the word 'often' to take it out of the big league generalisations.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 23:27:45 GMT
Whenever atheism is obviously the problem you blame religion. People who have no religion often substitute something worse. This thread makes that especially clear. Something like the secular International Convention of Human Rights? Or the American Constitution, that specifically kept religion and the state apart? How did that work out? Alternatively, look around the world, how many faith-justified terrors, theocracies, religious dictatorships and failed caliphates can one see? And, according to many is not atheism a 'religion' while, according to you, lately do not some worship the 'gods' of money, military prowess etc? Make yer mind up. I suppose you might be able to name twelve atheists who are not psychotic killers yet, but why do you think that wins any argument? It might be true that "Christians" have more divorces, earn less money, score lower on intelligence surveys, and get into more wars, but as I have told you many times, such "Christianity" is not representative of religion. Jews have fewer divorces, earn more money, score higher on intelligence surveys, and do not cause any wars lately, although the people who hate them (Christians and atheists) have.
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Post by goz on Jun 7, 2018 23:46:25 GMT
Something like the secular International Convention of Human Rights? Or the American Constitution, that specifically kept religion and the state apart? How did that work out? Alternatively, look around the world, how many faith-justified terrors, theocracies, religious dictatorships and failed caliphates can one see? And, according to many is not atheism a 'religion' while, according to you, lately do not some worship the 'gods' of money, military prowess etc? Make yer mind up. I suppose you might be able to name twelve atheists who are not psychotic killers yet, but why do you think that wins any argument? It might be true that "Christians" have more divorces, earn less money, score lower on intelligence surveys, and get into more wars, but as I have told you many times, such "Christianity" is not representative of religion. Jews have fewer divorces, earn more money, score higher on intelligence surveys, and do not cause any wars lately, although the people who hate them (Christians and atheists) have. PICK ME...PICK ME...PICK ME!!!!!!!
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 8, 2018 11:54:37 GMT
I can certainly think of believers who killed under religious delusion. And indeed would argue that there is correlation between mental illness, delusions & etc with extreme religiosity as history, and psychology, shows. But that is a discussion we had here before.
www.jamiiforums.com/threads/christian-serial-killers-murder-in-the-name-of-god.149742/
I hope that helps.
This is not to say, of course that there have been no murderous nutters who were atheist. Ian Brady, The Moors Murderer, I believe for one. But I am willing to bet that for every clear atheistic killer there is a Bible John.
If I had made this argument before you raised it now by way of a characteristic distraction, then I am sure that would be a valid question. - Which would be interesting not least since JC was particularly set against the idea, much more so, say, than abortions. (Of course it could just be that there are more divorces among Christians since the traditionally-minded couple is more likely to be married in the first place.) Yeah, yeah, it 'might be true'. But as I am arguing none of these things either, except perhaps something relating to the last, then this is just another of your non-sequiturs is not? Incidentally, it is ironic that you have mentioned that Xians might fight more wars. Plenty have been justified by this faith down the years. Er, wasn't "military prowess" listed as one your perceived "false gods", only a short while ago? I see. So none of these are 'true' Christians? Not even the Scottish ones? Something which is asserted without substantiation can be dismissed on the same basis. But I am unsure of your point since here it appears you say Christians apparently are as bad as those godless you condemn.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 8, 2018 12:02:09 GMT
I can certainly think of believers who killed under religious delusion. And indeed would argue that there is correlation between mental illness, delusions & etc with extreme religiosity as history, and psychology, shows. But that is a discussion we had here before. www.jamiiforums.com/threads/christian-serial-killers-murder-in-the-name-of-god.149742/ I hope that helps. If I had made this argument before you raised it now by way of a characteristic distraction, then I am sure that would be a valid question. - Which would be interesting not least since JC was particularly set against the idea, much more so, say, than abortions. (Of course it could just be that there are more divorces among Christians since the traditionally-minded couple is more likely to be married in the first place.) Yeah, yeah, it 'might be true'. But as I am arguing none of these things either, except perhaps something relating to the last, then this is just another of your non-sequiturs is not? Incidentally, it is ironic that you have mentioned that Xians might fight more wars. Plenty have been justified by this faith down the years. Er, wasn't "military prowess" listed as one your perceived "false gods", only a short while ago? I see. So none of these are 'true' Christians? Not even the Scottish ones? Something which is asserted without substantiation can be dismissed on the same basis. But I am unsure of your point since here Christians apparently are as bad and those you condemn. It's hilarious how you complain about lack of substantiation when you have none yourself. Atheists have a very good record of behavior at times in history when there were no atheists. Just look at all the terrible things they didn't do. Only Christians did the terrible things then.
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