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Post by CrepedCrusader on Jun 6, 2018 22:44:15 GMT
Judging by the behavior of so many "faithful" I really think their are very few "true believers". My two votes are for habit, and Pascal's Wager. I think most "believers' suspect that it's all a sham, but go through the motions as if, if there really were a higher being who knows all, they could be fooled by people who are just going through the motions.
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Post by thefleetsin on Jun 6, 2018 22:49:31 GMT
because who wouldn't want eternal life. it's the ultimate pea under the never-ending shuffling walnut shells.
and once you buy into the initial fantasy, it's easy to swallow the whole bottle of pills. i was addicted to christianity for nearly a quarter of a century.
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Post by yezziqa on Jun 6, 2018 22:58:48 GMT
Weakness, they can't stand on their own two legs.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 6, 2018 23:10:20 GMT
because who wouldn't want eternal life. it's the ultimate pea under the never-ending shuffling walnut shells. and once you buy into the initial fantasy, it's easy to swallow the whole bottle of pills. i was addicted to christianity for nearly a quarter of a century. Me, too... then I got clean, and switched to alcohol - it's observable, quantifiable, testable, repeatable - yay, science!
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Post by goz on Jun 6, 2018 23:16:07 GMT
Disappointed. There was no category for ignorance and arrogance.
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Post by thefleetsin on Jun 6, 2018 23:17:15 GMT
because who wouldn't want eternal life. it's the ultimate pea under the never-ending shuffling walnut shells. and once you buy into the initial fantasy, it's easy to swallow the whole bottle of pills. i was addicted to christianity for nearly a quarter of a century. Me, too... then I got clean, and switched to alcohol - it's observable, quantifiable, testable, repeatable - yay, science! i'm currently experimenting with pint bottles of Stone IPA. :-)
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 6, 2018 23:20:16 GMT
Me, too... then I got clean, and switched to alcohol - it's observable, quantifiable, testable, repeatable - yay, science! i'm currently experimenting with pint bottles of Stone IPA. :-) Well, this better be a true scientific experiment with lots of repetition!
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 6, 2018 23:23:50 GMT
Childhood indoctrination. There's a reason people rarely change their religion after their late teens/early 20s or so even though their politics and moral perceptions often change.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 1:56:21 GMT
I think for most people it's just habit. The UK is an incredibly irreligious country where most people never see the inside of a church outside of weddings, baptisms and funerals. Most never give a thought to religion, it's simply not part of their daily life. They certainly don't worry about sins and stuff like that.
But if you ask them, most will say that are a christian and believe in god. Why? Because they always have, it's just a label they've always used for themselves because don't most people?
Habit, nothing more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 3:03:52 GMT
I voted fear and habit. If we could choose three I would have also voted true belief. I think that most religious try to break that concept of habit once they realize it and not just believe/do things just because they were taught to, but a lot of the times their beliefs always come back to what they're most familiar with. It's easier to hold on to something that you're most familiar with especially if it's associated with mostly positive memories and experiences. I also think a lot of people depend on some form of guidance, inspiration and purpose in their lives and the Bible offers that to a lot of people. The Bible can even do that for non-religious people.
But I think fear is the strongest influence to why people are religious. I feel it's not really about a positive award that motivates people but the fear of what the consequences will be if they aren't positively awarded. The idea that anyone can go to hell is scary and naturally you would think that heaven is the better deal, but the only reason you want to go to heaven is to avoid places like hell. It's the fear of hell that actually makes you want to go to heaven and not because you would have chosen heaven without being given that ultimatum. Just imagine a teacher giving the class a homework assignment for the benefit of learning something important and then telling them that it won't affect their grade if they didn't do it. Almost no one in that class would do that assignment because there are no consequences from not doing it. But once the teacher were to say that the assignment will be a huge impact on their grade and decide whether they pass or not then almost everyone in the class is going to do it. The only reason why you want to pass is because you won't fail, and not just for the sake of passing something. I think naturally we as humans are more driven by fear than just positive award alone and I think the concept of heaven and hell and religion is similar. I think most people can't let go of religion even once they've come to the state of uncertainty about it because they're afraid of what could happen to them if they did.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 7, 2018 3:41:58 GMT
You could have added some more choices such as belief in community values, spiritual revelations inside the heart of seekers, belief in messages and teachings of any prophet/Jesus/Buddha/etc. as there many converts to religion as well. It's good to keep an open mind and not bring out the worst choices for community one doesn't like.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Jun 7, 2018 5:15:56 GMT
It's all about the childhood indoctrination. That's why people growing up in heavily Muslim areas "happen" to become Muslims too. And people who grow up in heavily Christian areas "happen" to become Christians. And so on.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jun 7, 2018 5:34:11 GMT
The poll question isn't optimally worded. I think the way the question is worded leaves a lot of room for discussion and reflection. It conflates several different issues into one simplistic framing. One overarching question is why do people tend to believe in the supernatural, including believing in "'a power' greater than myself." A separate question is why do people tend to belong to a particular religious community. So, for example, why does a particular Christian choose to identify as a Roman Catholic vs. a Quaker vs. a Jehovah's Witness. Or, why does a particular Muslim follow the ways of Shi'a Islam vs. Sunni Islam. The answers clearly vary across cultures.
And, of course, there's the issue of believing something that involves religious faith vs. participating in the communal aspects of organized religion--public prayers, going to church/temple/mosque, invoking scripture or referencing the divine in one's speech or writing, etc. Many people put on shows of faith for social reasons that may have nothing to do with what they actually believe with regard to actual tenets of faith.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jun 7, 2018 5:37:24 GMT
The question seems to assume that people are given an unconstrained choice to decide what to believe. This is probably not true for a very large percentage of people.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jun 7, 2018 5:47:14 GMT
Even the issue of "true belief (they have studied it ...)" is sticky.
What does having studied it mean? Does this include a person who has gone to a parochial school from a very early age and been taught how to read and write at that school using scripture?
Most religious schools start with an assumption that their religion is unquestionably the one true religion, and their goal is to inculcate that same belief in their students--not to expose their students to alternative viewpoints or to equip them with tools of inquiry that could allow them to reject the faith on which the schools are based.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 7, 2018 5:49:46 GMT
Reasons vary depending on the individual. Also, there may be more than two reasons why someone follows a religion. And a reason like "gives comfort / makes the believer feel good" is missing.
All in all: Not a great poll in my opinion.
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Post by The Lost One on Jun 7, 2018 8:56:35 GMT
I think habit dictates the form of religious belief (eg Italian people tending to be Catholics) but I think if you look at cultures across history and geography, supernatural beliefs in general tend to be almost ubiquitous. Even now in this supposed post-religious age, you have many who believe in things like ghosts, fortune telling, souls, karma etc even if they find the idea of an Abrahamic God ridiculous. I think it's a natural instinct to believe there is more to life than the observable.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 7, 2018 9:51:34 GMT
HabitLately not so much a habit, is it? Peer pressureLately not so much peer pressure, is there? Pascal's wagerAn excellent reason, as ever. FearAn excellent reason in the past, not so much lately. True beliefIt is rather difficult to argue against the truth once you find it. Greed/PowerThat would be the reason people exploit religion, not the reason they are religious. Religion can't force you to do anything. Ignorance and arrogance (according to goz ) Some people do exploit or "use" religion for that. How's that working out lately? It is a "something," atheism is not. (according to Arlon10 ) What else are you going to do on weekends? Football? Now let's consider something very remarkable. How many of the reasons people believe in religion (now or in the past) are the reasons people are atheists today?
HabitIn the days before modern science it was easy to assume that "animalcules" could have "randomly" assembled. Many moderately intelligent people were fooled. You have to be an idiot to still believe that. Peer pressureObviously the government has reversed the peer pressure. The popularity of atheism now has the force of government to add pressure. Pascal's WagerNot really a good reason to become an atheist, even with all the peer pressure. FearYes, atheists do fear the unknown as much or more than anyone fears any god. True beliefAtheism is a belief, but a not a systematic belief. It has no tenets. Greed/PowerThe religious cannot force you to give them anything. Government can. Ignorance and arroganceThat describes quite many atheists. It is a "something," atheism is not.Not a big reason to be an atheist obviously, but some people are introverted and might use atheism to avoid public events.
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Post by Eλευθερί on Jun 7, 2018 10:55:44 GMT
Even now in this supposed post-religious age, you have many who believe in things like ghosts, fortune telling, souls, karma etc even if they find the idea of an Abrahamic God ridiculous. I think it's a natural instinct to believe there is more to life than the observable. The mysteries of nature are no longer mysteries to scientists and the highly educated. They account for a tiny fraction of humanity, however. Most people, including in the wealthy countries, are still ignorant of much of this knowledge. Ignorance is the natural condition. We are born into it. It takes a great struggle over many years to overcome it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 11:04:26 GMT
Habit (they just follow what they were taught for years to follow) Fear (of mortality, of insignificance, etc.)
Of course this does not apply to every believer.
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