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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 9, 2018 14:57:47 GMT
and follow secular law of the land?
Using the USA as an example, can Southern Baptists and Mormons and Atheists and Hindus live in the same neighborhood, each celebrate their own religion but not try to convert others to their faith?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 9, 2018 15:00:31 GMT
and follow secular law of the land? Using the USA as an example, can Southern Baptists and Mormons and Atheists and Hindus live in the same neighborhood, each celebrate their own religion but not try to convert others to their faith? Not sure where you live, but I live in a neighborhood with all of these demographics. In answer to the second part, there is nothing wrong with converting people since it's based on choice.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 9, 2018 15:12:58 GMT
Definetly not Mormons since they actively try to convert others.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 16:27:23 GMT
I voted yes :/
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 9, 2018 16:28:46 GMT
I have clarified the question so that there is a clear separation of proselytizing, and added a few simple opinions.
Edit: And I am going to elaborate. I am an ex-Southern Baptist who is now an agnostic atheist. But my atheism doesn't prevent me from enjoying the traditional Mexican celebration of the Day of the Dead, or attending a friend's son's Bar Mitzvah.
That, to me, is coexisting.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 9, 2018 20:35:40 GMT
Never have seen problems between Zoroastrians & Hindus or Jains and Hindus or Sikhs and Jains. So seems like many of these groups already have embraced to each his own thing.
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Post by mslo79 on Jun 9, 2018 21:47:32 GMT
I don't ever see Christianity and Islam co-existing as they are opposed. Islam is from satan and Christianity is from God so naturally they can't co-exist. Islam is all violent and is a plague to humanity. but outside of something like that... I would imagine people generally try to swing others to their way of thinking etc. so there will always be some kind of conflict I assume. hell, bottom line is... since people are sinners(according to Christianity), people are inevitably going to clash, sometimes with violence etc. it's always been this way as even though humanity has made progress, especially in more civilized society, there is still going to be drama. rachelcarson1953 Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both since atheist don't believe in God, period (basically you die here on earth and cease to exist). where as agnostic is of that mindset of 'maybe God exists, maybe He does not'. basically they are different things as one is open to the possibility of God and the other is not. so it seems people boil down to one of the three following categories... 1)Theist (those who believe in God etc) 2)Agnostic (the 'maybe, or maybe not' types when it comes to belief in God etc) 3)Atheist (those who don't believe God exists, period. like you die here on earth and cease to exist) p.s. I believe in God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) so I am part of option 1. I am Catholic. I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' even though I don't think they can say that with absolute certainty as while I realize it seems like this world is all their is, since we are bound by our five senses, but by faith we know there is something beyond this world, on that other side . to me Option 1 or Option 2 seems more reasonable... hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?. to me it seems more like someone intelligent. basically God created everything on this side, which is physical existence(i.e. the universe and everything in it), and on the other side, which is the spiritual world, and that's that. basically our purpose here on earth is to find out way back to God as our actions/choices here on earth ultimately determine where we end up when we die which is either Heaven(good) or hell(bad).
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 9, 2018 22:06:44 GMT
I don't ever see Christianity and Islam co-existing as they are opposed. Islam is from satan and Christianity is from God so naturally they can't co-exist. Islam is all violent and is a plague to humanity. but outside of something like that... I would imagine people generally try to swing others to their way of thinking etc. so there will always be some kind of conflict I assume. hell, bottom line is... since people are sinners(according to Christianity), people are inevitably going to clash, sometimes with violence etc. it's always been this way as even though humanity has made progress, especially in more civilized society, there is still going to be drama. rachelcarson1953 Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both since atheist don't believe in God, period (basically you die here on earth and cease to exist). where as agnostic is of that mindset of 'maybe God exists, maybe He does not'. basically they are different things as one is open to the possibility of God and the other is not. so it seems people boil down to one of the three following categories... 1)Theist (those who believe in God etc) 2)Agnostic (the 'maybe, or maybe not' types when it comes to belief in God etc) 3)Atheist (those who don't believe God exists, period. like you die here on earth and cease to exist) p.s. I believe in God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) so I am part of option 1. I am Catholic. I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' even though I don't think they can say that with absolute certainty as while I realize it seems like this world is all their is, since we are bound by our five senses, but by faith we know there is something beyond this world, on that other side . to me Option 1 or Option 2 seems more reasonable... hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?. to me it seems more like someone intelligent. basically God created everything on this side, which is physical existence(i.e. the universe and everything in it), and on the other side, which is the spiritual world, and that's that. basically our purpose here on earth is to find out way back to God as our actions/choices here on earth ultimately determine where we end up when we die which is either Heaven(good) or hell(bad). "Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both"
Yes you can. All "agnostic" basically means is "I don't know", or an admission of ignorance. You can be "agnostic atheist" (I don't know there's a God, but I don't particularly believe in one), and agnostic theist (I believe there is a God even though I don't know for sure).
"I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' "
That's not what "atheist" actually means. Here's an example to show you what I mean. I don't believe in leprechauns.I've never seen them, no evidence has even been presented for them. Now I can't prove with absolute certainty they don't exist (unfalsifiable hypothesis) but until evidence is produced there's no particular reason to believe in them. Just replace leprechauns with God and that's all "atheist" means.
".. hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?"
Considering how biological and cosmological evolution works, no it really doesn't seem that way.
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 9, 2018 22:06:58 GMT
I don't ever see Christianity and Islam co-existing as they are opposed. Islam is from satan and Christianity is from God so naturally they can't co-exist. Islam is all violent and is a plague to humanity. but outside of something like that... I would imagine people generally try to swing others to their way of thinking etc. so there will always be some kind of conflict I assume. hell, bottom line is... since people are sinners(according to Christianity), people are inevitably going to clash, sometimes with violence etc. it's always been this way as even though humanity has made progress, especially in more civilized society, there is still going to be drama. rachelcarson1953 Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both since atheist don't believe in God, period (basically you die here on earth and cease to exist). where as agnostic is of that mindset of 'maybe God exists, maybe He does not'. basically they are different things as one is open to the possibility of God and the other is not. so it seems people boil down to one of the three following categories... 1)Theist (those who believe in God etc) 2)Agnostic (the 'maybe, or maybe not' types when it comes to belief in God etc) 3)Atheist (those who don't believe God exists, period. like you die here on earth and cease to exist) p.s. I believe in God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) so I am part of option 1. I am Catholic. I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' even though I don't think they can say that with absolute certainty as while I realize it seems like this world is all their is, since we are bound by our five senses, but by faith we know there is something beyond this world, on that other side . to me Option 1 or Option 2 seems more reasonable... hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?. to me it seems more like someone intelligent. basically God created everything on this side, which is physical existence(i.e. the universe and everything in it), and on the other side, which is the spiritual world, and that's that. basically our purpose here on earth is to find out way back to God as our actions/choices here on earth ultimately determine where we end up when we die which is either Heaven(good) or hell(bad). It's one thing to believe in one's imaginative god such as god of Christianity. But it's downright terrible to further go on to believe that other people are following Satan/Devil. The Christianity has done as much wrong to this world as Islam if not more.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2018 23:35:21 GMT
Some religions do get along. It's in the attitude of the local leaders and culture.
In Canada, and some parts of the world, they do.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 9, 2018 23:36:39 GMT
I don't ever see Christianity and Islam co-existing as they are opposed. Islam is from satan and Christianity is from God so naturally they can't co-exist. Islam is all violent and is a plague to humanity. but outside of something like that... I would imagine people generally try to swing others to their way of thinking etc. so there will always be some kind of conflict I assume. hell, bottom line is... since people are sinners(according to Christianity), people are inevitably going to clash, sometimes with violence etc. it's always been this way as even though humanity has made progress, especially in more civilized society, there is still going to be drama. rachelcarson1953 Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both since atheist don't believe in God, period (basically you die here on earth and cease to exist). where as agnostic is of that mindset of 'maybe God exists, maybe He does not'. basically they are different things as one is open to the possibility of God and the other is not. so it seems people boil down to one of the three following categories... 1)Theist (those who believe in God etc) 2)Agnostic (the 'maybe, or maybe not' types when it comes to belief in God etc) 3)Atheist (those who don't believe God exists, period. like you die here on earth and cease to exist) p.s. I believe in God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) so I am part of option 1. I am Catholic. I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' even though I don't think they can say that with absolute certainty as while I realize it seems like this world is all their is, since we are bound by our five senses, but by faith we know there is something beyond this world, on that other side . to me Option 1 or Option 2 seems more reasonable... hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?. to me it seems more like someone intelligent. basically God created everything on this side, which is physical existence(i.e. the universe and everything in it), and on the other side, which is the spiritual world, and that's that. basically our purpose here on earth is to find out way back to God as our actions/choices here on earth ultimately determine where we end up when we die which is either Heaven(good) or hell(bad). "Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both"
Yes you can. All "agnostic" basically means is "I don't know", or an admission of ignorance. You can be "agnostic atheist" (I don't know there's a God, but I don't particularly believe in one), and agnostic theist (I believe there is a God even though I don't know for sure).
"I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' "
That's not what "atheist" actually means. Here's an example to show you what I mean. I don't believe in leprechauns.I've never seen them, no evidence has even been presented for them. Now I can't prove with absolute certainty they don't exist (unfalsifiable hypothesis) but until evidence is produced there's no particular reason to believe in them. Just replace leprechauns with God and that's all "atheist" means.
".. hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?"
Considering how biological and cosmological evolution works, no it really doesn't seem that way.
Thanks, @lowtacks, that was a great reply, I couldn't have said it better! As for the other poster, he is still in that mindset that makes his religion right and everyone else's wrong. And he proselytized, trying to change the mind of someone who grew up in that mindset yet rejected it in adulthood due in part to advances in science. Like hearing that same stuff endlessly repeated in my childhood is magically going to make me disregard my well-thought-out worldview and accept his is true. He couldn't resist trying to change my mind. And sadly, I don't think religion is ever going to stop trying to convert non-believers, so 'to each his own' is not attainable.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Jun 9, 2018 23:49:20 GMT
I don't ever see Christianity and Islam co-existing as they are opposed. Islam is from satan and Christianity is from God so naturally they can't co-exist. Islam is all violent and is a plague to humanity. but outside of something like that... I would imagine people generally try to swing others to their way of thinking etc. so there will always be some kind of conflict I assume. hell, bottom line is... since people are sinners(according to Christianity), people are inevitably going to clash, sometimes with violence etc. it's always been this way as even though humanity has made progress, especially in more civilized society, there is still going to be drama. rachelcarson1953 Unless I am missing something your either 'agnostic' or 'atheist' as I don't think you can be both since atheist don't believe in God, period (basically you die here on earth and cease to exist). where as agnostic is of that mindset of 'maybe God exists, maybe He does not'. basically they are different things as one is open to the possibility of God and the other is not. so it seems people boil down to one of the three following categories... 1)Theist (those who believe in God etc) 2)Agnostic (the 'maybe, or maybe not' types when it comes to belief in God etc) 3)Atheist (those who don't believe God exists, period. like you die here on earth and cease to exist) p.s. I believe in God (i.e. The Holy Trinity (Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit)) so I am part of option 1. I am Catholic. I never understood that atheist mindset as it's like saying 'God does not exist, period' even though I don't think they can say that with absolute certainty as while I realize it seems like this world is all their is, since we are bound by our five senses, but by faith we know there is something beyond this world, on that other side . to me Option 1 or Option 2 seems more reasonable... hell, just look at the earth and sun etc. like how the earth goes around the sun and just general nature with sunsets and birds flying etc etc. does that look like a random accident to you? ; or does it seem more likely a intelligent Being is behind it all?. to me it seems more like someone intelligent. basically God created everything on this side, which is physical existence(i.e. the universe and everything in it), and on the other side, which is the spiritual world, and that's that. basically our purpose here on earth is to find out way back to God as our actions/choices here on earth ultimately determine where we end up when we die which is either Heaven(good) or hell(bad). It's one thing to believe in one's imaginative god such as god of Christianity. But it's downright terrible to further go on to believe that other people are following Satan/Devil. The Christianity has done as much wrong to this world as Islam if not more.Having studied Italian Renaissance Art history, and seeing paintings of the inhumane cruelties that the Crusaders perpetrated on those who would not convert, yes, Christianity has done as much wrong to this world as Islam if not more. They didn't show us any of those pictures in Sunday School. But in present day, with almost immediate worldwide coverage of bombings and combat, it would seem that Islam is more violent. Between the Crusades, the Holy Inquisition and the witch trials, Christianity has treated non-Christians with hideous violence.
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Post by mslo79 on Jun 10, 2018 0:41:07 GMT
Aj_JuneYour telling me Christianity is worse than Islam today? ; you got to be out of reality if you truly believe that because Islam is violent(take a look at ISIS etc), Christianity is not. also, it's not that they think they are directly following the devil, they probably think otherwise, but since actions speak louder than words it's pretty obvious some people are basically following the devil given their violence etc. ISIS is clearly a product of satan even though they probably think otherwise. but in the end they are evil people. for the record... the God of Christianity is the real one as I like to quote this....
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Post by captainbryce on Jun 10, 2018 1:07:28 GMT
and follow secular law of the land? Using the USA as an example, can Southern Baptists and Mormons and Atheists and Hindus live in the same neighborhood, each celebrate their own religion but not try to convert others to their faith? Can “religions” embrace that? It depends on how you define religion. Buddhism and humanism in my opinion are not religions (as they are not about worship of dirties), they are philosophies. If by religion you mean “theism”, then the answer to your question is no. Because the concept of “to each his own” is completely antithetical to what almost every religion teaches, which is “the one true path” to salvation. The only actual religion that I can think of that might be compatible with “to each his own” would be Unitarian Universalist Christianity. But that is a very small and unique branch of Christianity, most likely viewed as a heretical cult by mainstream Christianity. As for “religious people”, then sure. Most religious people do live by secular law, although they simply try to influence it so that it is compatible with their religious beliefs. The majority of Californians once voted against legalizing gay marriage. It is legal to circumcise your male child just for religious reasons. And now apparently a business can also legally discriminate against LGBT people in accordance with religion. So it’s just a matter of influencing secular law so that it is the same as religion for most people. Then it’s very easy for them to follow it.
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Post by mslo79 on Jun 10, 2018 1:24:45 GMT
lowtacks86I never heard of a believer refer to themselves as a 'agnostic theist'. basically if one believes, they believe. p.s. even for me personally... I pretty much always believed in God even though I may have had some slight doubts back when I was roughly late teens or early 20's (ill be 39 later this year) but overall I never really seriously doubted God's existence and that's further locked after something happened for me a while ago which helps further confirm His existence for me. but to compare God (and general Christianity) to some random made up thing, I think there is a bit of a difference given what we see in the world like... Fatima in 1917 (i.e. miracle of the sun), St. Pio (1887-1968), Eucharistic miracles, Our Lady of Guadalupe image from the year 1531, Our Lady of Las Lajas etc. stuff like these make at least a plausible case for God's existence but for many the following quote sums it up... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 10, 2018 1:34:49 GMT
lowtacks86 I never heard of a believer refer to themselves as a 'agnostic theist'. basically if one believes, they believe. p.s. even for me personally... I pretty much always believed in God even though I may have had some slight doubts back when I was roughly late teens or early 20's (ill be 39 later this year) but overall I never really seriously doubted God's existence and that's further locked after something happened for me a while ago which helps further confirm His existence for me. but to compare God (and general Christianity) to some random made up thing, I think there is a bit of a difference given what we see in the world like... Fatima in 1917 (i.e. miracle of the sun), St. Pio (1887-1968), Eucharistic miracles, Our Lady of Guadalupe image from the year 1531, Our Lady of Las Lajas etc. stuff like these make at least a plausible case for God's existence but for many the following quote sums it up... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas "I never heard of a believer refer to themselves as a 'agnostic theist'. basically if one believes, they believe."
It doesn't matter, your personal anecdotes doesn't change the meaning of words. Most people wouldn't label themselves "agnostic theist" because they don't actually know what agnostic means.
"to some random made up thing"
How do you know they were "made up"? Maybe they did exist at one point and became extinct. Obviously that's absurd reasoning, but that's really not any different from people believing Nephlims and unicorns once existed.
"Fatima in 1917 (i.e. miracle of the sun), St. Pio (1887-1968), Eucharistic miracles, Our Lady of Guadalupe image from the year 1531, Our Lady of Las Lajas etc. stuff like these make at least a plausible case for God's existence but for many the following quote sums it up..."
No, they really don't, I'm sure all those supposed "miracles" have naturalistic explanations. Or maybe people just made them up. I'm skeptical of those alleged miracles for the same reason I'm sure you write off supposed "Islamic Miracles"..
"To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. "
So basically you don't need any actual evidence to defend your position. Apply that to anything else ("I think OJ Simpson was framed even though there's no actual evidence") and maybe you'll come close to understanding that absurdity of that quote.
"To one without faith, no explanation is possible"
If actual, irrefutable evidence of a God was presented, I couldn't really..well, refute it. It hasn't been so no particular reason to believe in God until evidence is presented.
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Post by goz on Jun 10, 2018 1:45:11 GMT
lowtacks86 I never heard of a believer refer to themselves as a 'agnostic theist'. basically if one believes, they believe. p.s. even for me personally... I pretty much always believed in God even though I may have had some slight doubts back when I was roughly late teens or early 20's (ill be 39 later this year) but overall I never really seriously doubted God's existence and that's further locked after something happened for me a while ago which helps further confirm His existence for me. but to compare God (and general Christianity) to some random made up thing, I think there is a bit of a difference given what we see in the world like... Fatima in 1917 (i.e. miracle of the sun), St. Pio (1887-1968), Eucharistic miracles, Our Lady of Guadalupe image from the year 1531, Our Lady of Las Lajas etc. stuff like these make at least a plausible case for God's existence but for many the following quote sums it up... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas To me God and general Christianity are a random made up thing You know there is no such thing as a 'miracle', right?
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Post by redhorizon on Jun 10, 2018 2:13:27 GMT
Things that seem miraculous happen to atheists too. Not just to atheists but to everybody. I just wouldn't call it a "miracle". And the opposite of miracle - "Disaster" or "Debacle" can happen to anybody as well.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2018 2:42:16 GMT
I have clarified the question so that there is a clear separation of proselytizing, and added a few simple opinions. Edit: And I am going to elaborate. I am an ex-Southern Baptist who is now an agnostic atheist. But my atheism doesn't prevent me from enjoying the traditional Mexican celebration of the Day of the Dead, or attending a friend's son's Bar Mitzvah. That, to me, is coexisting. You just gave examples of things you want to participate in.
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Post by clusium on Jun 10, 2018 4:19:57 GMT
Some religions do get along. It's in the attitude of the local leaders and culture. In Canada, and some parts of the world, they do. Very true. As a matter of fact, there is one intersection in the GTA, where there is a Shia Mosque, a Reform Synagogue, a Buddhist Temple, a Zoroastrian Temple, & a Nondenominational Protestant Church, all together. In fact, the Shia Mosque & the Reform Synagogue are so close to each other, that they share the same parking lot!!!!
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