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Post by Aj_June on Jun 22, 2018 4:15:15 GMT
The conversation in this thread has touched such lower levels that I wouldn't bother clicking on it again.
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Post by goz on Jun 22, 2018 4:19:42 GMT
The conversation in this thread has touched such lower levels that I wouldn't bother clicking on it again. Well, I am appalled too at the male reaction….or maybe you disagree? YOU live in the city where Euridice Dixon was raped and murdered, what do you have to say before you dump this thread? I feel like I am pushing an overladen barrow of testosterone up a steep hill.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 7:05:28 GMT
What happened, goz? I figured you weren't on the board and that's why you didn't answer. But I see that's not the case. So let's ask again (and I hope the reason you're avoiding answering isn't just because it's outside the scope of ready-made rhetoric you have prepared and it would require you to think about something different): Let's just succinctly state what your argument would be: You shouldn't be bothered with any responsibility for your own well-being because ________? (And then you fill in the blank.)
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 7:10:44 GMT
Are you confused? A woman raped a boy. If you "fail to see" that this breaks the spirit of your whole nincompoop argument, it is because you are blind to everything except your own self-righteous, unwarranted and petty indignation. But then I don't think you actually do fail to understand. You are just not man enough to admit that you were wrong. But, wait, you're not a man. You're a woman. Oooops, sorry if I was putting too much pressure on you to do the right thing. What relevance does one criminal act by a woman have to my argument? I have consistently acknowledge by my language such as 'substantially women are the victims...mostly rape and murder are committed against women etc So what is your point. All that I state is true and I never said that women were the only victims of crime, even rape for patently they are not. It is just NOT relevant to the discussion here about a woman being raped and murdered on her way home from work, and what measures, other than women being prisoners in their own homes, can society in general and what MEN ( who are the most prevalent perpetrators) can do to counter the rape empowerment and domestic violence culture that results in the appalling statistics of sexual and domestic violence against women. Of course men suffer from violence too, butt that is not and has not been the issue here just a set of chauvinistic red herrings to divert from the FACT that men rape and murder and use domestic violence against women more often than the reverse. Re murder in general, by the way, men are much more likely than women to be the victim.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 22, 2018 7:50:21 GMT
My two cents.
Rape is a crime. And those responsible for this crime are the rapists. I guess that most reasonable people will agree with this.
But: If the majority of rapists are men, does this mean that it's only men's responsibility to take measures? I say it would be, if the majority of men were rapists.
And that is not the case. The important question is not: How many criminals are members of group X? The important question is: How many members of group X are criminals?
In fact, one argument often brought against Muslim immigration is that most terrorist acts in the countries where Muslims want to immigrate are committed by Muslims, and that it's the responsibility of moderate Muslims to speak up against it. But is it? In fact, I sometimes draw an analogy in discussions like these by saying that most terrorists are men, and where is the outrage against toxic masculinity?
It works both ways.
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 22, 2018 8:56:56 GMT
To more specifically address the issue of whose responsibility it is to prevent rape, I think it is important to point out that there are things people can do to prevent crimes even if they should not have to do them.
You should not have to lock your doors, but most people do. There are areas where it is especially helpful to police if you lock your doors. In other areas it might be somewhat safer to leave doors unlocked. It is however so simple, easy and safe to lock doors that people usually do, even when it is not especially necessary.
The newbie that wants everyone else to ensure her or his well being, without doing her or his own part is a very sad story. Even if others did everything in their power, it might not be enough to prevent crimes.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 22, 2018 10:48:41 GMT
Are you confused? A woman raped a boy. If you "fail to see" that this breaks the spirit of your whole nincompoop argument, it is because you are blind to everything except your own self-righteous, unwarranted and petty indignation. But then I don't think you actually do fail to understand. You are just not man enough to admit that you were wrong. But, wait, you're not a man. You're a woman. Oooops, sorry if I was putting too much pressure on you to do the right thing. I think she wants all men to be gay. At least she will feel safe then. Yeah right. Talk about making "many off the mark and displaced assumptions about things".
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 22, 2018 16:14:49 GMT
Yes I liked that...it was cool except that you forgot that in this day and age many of the services are now women! I didn't forget anything. In this day and age, there are a lot more women serving in those industries than there were in the past. That doesn't change the fact that an overwhelming majority of those industries are still populated by men. Are you too biased to admit this? That you see these as exclusively (majority...your word) male traits, is telling. I don't "see" these exclusively as male traits. In fact, there is not a single male trait mentioned in my post. What I mentioned were job positions, and it's a fact that an overwhelming majority of these jobs are done by men. Again, these are facts, not my opinions. What this means is that an overwhelming majority of actual crime prevention, crime fighting and crime punishment ARE done by men. Which means your whole "men don't do anything to prevent rape" theory is completely wrong. Or are you too biased to admit this too? I am talking about male rape culture, disrespect for women, treating women as either domestic drudges, sex objects solely mothers, wives as property. 'the little woman'...it is a culture that thankfully now the #metoo movement is waking men up, is starting to be listened to...except perhaps by some of the men on this board...many of whom are gay or those men women reject...so they kill them. Yes, you talked about male rape culture. I just finished giving you statistics that prove that the number of male sexual offenders is extremely low, way below 1% of the male population (though limited to using US 2012 statistics as the sample population for this example). You can multiple the number I gave you by 100 (to account for unreported cases) and you'd still only end up with 5%. You can NOT claim something is a culture when less than 1% of a population is affected by it. This is just plain common sense. Listen, you went off track from the main discussion in this thread. The discussion was, "what more can men do to help prevent rape" and you received a bunch of good replies. But you then went off tangent to saying, "Men should take 100% responsibility for rape because men are rapists and women should do absolutely nothing to prevent it." Your attitude is really not helping deal with the issue at hand, you're just making it worse.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 21:34:14 GMT
Actually, re dating and casual social situations among acquaintances, as much as we might need to teach men to behave differently, it's equally imperative that we teach women to behave differently--namely, that we teach them that it's a positive if they initiate sexual activity when they desire it, that there's nothing wrong with being the instigator, that there's nothing slutty about having casual sex, etc. Insofar as men are taught things folks are objecting to, it's because women are taught things that make sex unlikely unless men are the instigators. Women are taught to not act like having casual sex is no more of an issue than deciding to go to the movies. That would have to change.
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Post by goz on Jun 22, 2018 22:09:05 GMT
What happened, goz ? I figured you weren't on the board and that's why you didn't answer. But I see that's not the case. So let's ask again (and I hope the reason you're avoiding answering isn't just because it's outside the scope of ready-made rhetoric you have prepared and it would require you to think about something different): Let's just succinctly state what your argument would be: You shouldn't be bothered with any responsibility for your own well-being because ________? (And then you fill in the blank.) I thought I had answered by referring to another post. Since you couldn't be bothered to scroll up I will re-post the relevant part here. I am sorry you think that I should be constantly on the boards answering your posts. Considering I am in a totally different time zone, I do my best to please. I am also a very busy person at some times, not so much at others when I am working in research for my book and can spend more time here as a 'break'. When you were petulantly demanding my attention, I was cooking dinner for my extended family, bathing small children, attending a band concert with them and sleeping.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 22:26:10 GMT
What happened, goz ? I figured you weren't on the board and that's why you didn't answer. But I see that's not the case. So let's ask again (and I hope the reason you're avoiding answering isn't just because it's outside the scope of ready-made rhetoric you have prepared and it would require you to think about something different): Let's just succinctly state what your argument would be: You shouldn't be bothered with any responsibility for your own well-being because ________? (And then you fill in the blank.) I thought I had answered by referring to another post. Since you couldn't be bothered to scroll up I will re-post the relevant part here. I am sorry you think that I should be constantly on the boards answering your posts. Considering I am in a totally different time zone, I do my best to please. I am also a very busy person at some times, not so much at others when I am working in research for my book and can spend more time here as a 'break'. When you were petulantly demanding my attention, I was cooking dinner for my extended family, bathing small children, attending a band concert with them and sleeping. Ah, I overlooked "Women as citizens should always take steps to ensure their safety." You didn't seem to be saying that earlier. I don't expect anyone to answer/respond to anything in a particular "timely" manner of even necessarily at all in a particular thread. It's just that you had spent a lot of time typing stuff in the thread after the post addressed to you.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 22:33:53 GMT
Actually, re dating and casual social situations among acquaintances, as much as we might need to teach men to behave differently, it's equally imperative that we teach women to behave differently--namely, that we teach them that it's a positive if they initiate sexual activity when they desire it, that there's nothing wrong with being the instigator, that there's nothing slutty about having casual sex, etc. Insofar as men are taught things folks are objecting to, it's because women are taught things that make sex unlikely unless men are the instigators. Women are taught to not act like having casual sex is no more of an issue than deciding to go to the movies. That would have to change. Good point and that is then the equality issue, if females feel they aren't equal to males, they will have to step up to act the same as them. However, not all men act like other men, nor do all women act like other women, so these things are never going to happen, because it independent on each individuals personality as well. Males can even have expectations on them placed by other males and many females certainly expect males to have certain traits. The bottom line is though, that the 2 genders are not equal, physically and biologically, which can also determine ones emotional outlook and also how they choose to contribute in society. We would have to be one gender, to see more parity with each other in our lives. Right. And I think the notion that men are taught a certain thing and women are taught a certain different thing is a very oversimplified idea. Nevertheless, it's important for us to realize that what's behind a lot of men acting the way in question, when they do--as instigators, as negotiating coercers, etc. when it comes to sex, is a natural reaction to women acting (and being taught, and there being a social culture that's) anti-casual sex. It's not unusual to at least implicitly impress upon women that they are not supposed to be openly embracing the idea of enjoying sex in casual setting, sex prior to marriage, etc.
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 22, 2018 22:46:04 GMT
Sex is certainly one of the main reasons that people interact. Not the only one. Unfortunately, there is nothing with more social hang-ups, taboos, insecurities, etc. than sex. So there's a fundamental drive/desire there from both men and women, but there's so much social baggage shit to deal with that it's a mess.
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
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Post by islandmur on Jun 22, 2018 23:29:00 GMT
Sex is certainly one of the main reasons that people interact. Not the only one. Unfortunately, there is nothing with more social hang-ups, taboos, insecurities, etc. than sex. So there's a fundamental drive/desire there from both men and women, but there's so much social baggage shit to deal with that it's a mess. Ha! Try living in a country where going out with two different guys in the same month (no sex need be involved) and be considered a slut. lol. I enjoy casual sex, i don't equate sex with love, i'm an oddity in my country.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 23, 2018 0:36:22 GMT
Sex is certainly one of the main reasons that people interact. Not the only one. Unfortunately, there is nothing with more social hang-ups, taboos, insecurities, etc. than sex. So there's a fundamental drive/desire there from both men and women, but there's so much social baggage shit to deal with that it's a mess. Ha! Try living in a country where going out with two different guys in the same month (no sex need be involved) and be considered a slut. lol. I enjoy casual sex, i don't equate sex with love, i'm an oddity in my country. Out of curiosity, which country do you come from?
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
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Post by islandmur on Jun 23, 2018 0:37:04 GMT
Ha! Try living in a country where going out with two different guys in the same month (no sex need be involved) and be considered a slut. lol. I enjoy casual sex, i don't equate sex with love, i'm an oddity in my country. Out of curiosity, which country do you come from? I live in Haiti
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islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
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Post by islandmur on Jun 23, 2018 1:44:12 GMT
You are very sensible and level-headed islandmur and Haiti experiences many tumultuous events, both literally and figuratively. You do not come across as precious and spoiled. I think any man that has you for a partner, would be a very lucky fellow. Thanks Toasted. I have lived an unusual life and i've been to a few countries that does really open your mind. When in my 20's I realized that no matter how awful your childhood was, you can not keep blaming your parents for all your ills. You had to take charge of your own life. Because you were now the adult. I'm not really level headed, but I do like to think things through and try to see all sides in a situation, I tend to empathize too much and get very emotional on certain issues.
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Post by goz on Jun 23, 2018 3:00:10 GMT
I thought I had answered by referring to another post. Since you couldn't be bothered to scroll up I will re-post the relevant part here. I am sorry you think that I should be constantly on the boards answering your posts. Considering I am in a totally different time zone, I do my best to please. I am also a very busy person at some times, not so much at others when I am working in research for my book and can spend more time here as a 'break'. When you were petulantly demanding my attention, I was cooking dinner for my extended family, bathing small children, attending a band concert with them and sleeping. Ah, I overlooked "Women as citizens should always take steps to ensure their safety." You didn't seem to be saying that earlier. I don't expect anyone to answer/respond to anything in a particular "timely" manner of even necessarily at all in a particular thread. It's just that you had spent a lot of time typing stuff in the thread after the post addressed to you. As I said. I thought I had answered. You obviously could not be bothered to scroll.
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Post by goz on Jun 23, 2018 3:02:24 GMT
I thought I had answered by referring to another post. Since you couldn't be bothered to scroll up I will re-post the relevant part here. I am sorry you think that I should be constantly on the boards answering your posts. Considering I am in a totally different time zone, I do my best to please. I am also a very busy person at some times, not so much at others when I am working in research for my book and can spend more time here as a 'break'. When you were petulantly demanding my attention, I was cooking dinner for my extended family, bathing small children, attending a band concert with them and sleeping. You are not treated as an animal or prey for men as a gender. Where do you get these deluded notions from? Sheesh! If you write a book and write it biased and slanted, don't expect to get the acclaim you may be striving for. The woman in the OP was treated exactly like that.
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Post by goz on Jun 23, 2018 3:16:08 GMT
The woman in the OP was treated exactly like that. Just as both male and female can treat others atrociously. Things happen in life goz, that are beyond yours or anyone's control. Is your concern genuine, or only really skin deep to use as a springboard to promote your shortsighted agenda? ...and just what is my 'shortsighted agenda'? So you think I am feigning concern for a young woman raped and murdered on her way home from work?
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