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Post by Skaathar on Jun 28, 2018 23:01:15 GMT
These two movies have been much lauded as some of the biggest flagship movies for female empowerment during the year 2017. However, although they share a few similarities, I feel that there are some key differences in how they presented female empowerment which I feel future movies should take into consideration.
The first is how they presented female characters being powerful. In TLJ, Rey was able to master the force and become an expert swordswoman without much trouble, without much training. This is following on the heels of TFA where we already saw how she's an expert pilot, mechanic and linguist all without any real explanation. In comparison, we see Diana train as a kid. We saw how she progressed to adulthood and then finally unlock her full powers in the end. There's also the part where she's basically a god which explains where her powers come from. This is also true for the other female characters on the show. Leia was able to fly in outer space without any real reason provided whereas the Amazons' great battle skill was explained in how they had been training to fight since the beginning of time. One movie explained how the women become so powerful. The other simply showed women being powerful.
Another difference is that Wonder Woman wasn't afraid to show Diana's softer side. She fawned over babies, swooned over ice-cream, dressed in feminine(ish) clothing, fell in love, etc. but she was still completely badass when she needed to be. In comparison, Rey felt like she was stripped of any softness or traditionally feminine attributes. It's not that they made her butch or anything like that, just that she was kept on "badass mode" pretty much all throughout the movie, stripped of anything that might draw attention to her femininity. There were parts where she showed vulnerability, but not exactly softness.
Of course, the biggest difference is that in TLJ, pretty much all the male characters were either villains, dumb jocks, selfish jerks or plain incompetent. In WW, the male characters were portrayed with variety. Some good, some bad. Some great some horrible. Some dumb, some wise. In short, pretty much how men would be portrayed in normal everyday life. If Diana looked better than the men, it's because she was great enough to rise above them. The movie didn't make any specific effort to make men seem inferior to women... unlike TLJ.
Anyway, the reason I'm making this post is because we seem to be headed to an era with female-led blockbusters, especially in the cbm section. Captain Marvel is coming up. A Black Widow and Harley Quinn movie is in talks. There's rumors of an all-female MCU coming up as well as a Birds of Prey movie. Jessica Jones is a hit and the Supergirl TV show is gaining traction. And I'm glad that we're getting these female-led movies. I just hope they handle female empowerment in the same vein as Wonder Woman and not TLJ.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Jun 29, 2018 13:06:02 GMT
Wonder Woman was a better written character my opinion. Acting wise they're not exactly great, but Gal was at least likeable as Diana.
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 29, 2018 16:13:15 GMT
The difference is that Rey was an avatar for the Force*, while Diana had the ability, but no confidence. Diana had formal training, while Rey had "street training" to survive. We see Rey fight with a melee weapon before the Force awakens in her, but people still hate that she knows how to use a lightsaber. I think the only way people would have accepted Rey is if they had a montage of her growing up and learning to survive on Jakku.
*Meaning that the Force was controlling her.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 29, 2018 16:26:06 GMT
The difference is that Rey was an avatar for the Force*, while Diana had the ability, but no confidence. Diana had formal training, while Rey had "street training" to survive. We see Rey fight with a melee weapon before the Force awakens in her, but people still hate that she knows how to use a lightsaber. I think the only way people would have accepted Rey is if they had a montage of her growing up and learning to survive on Jakku. *Meaning that the Force was controlling her. Fighting with a staff against random thugs is very different from fighting with a lightsaber against a trained jedi/sith. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 29, 2018 16:46:11 GMT
The difference is that Rey was an avatar for the Force*, while Diana had the ability, but no confidence. Diana had formal training, while Rey had "street training" to survive. We see Rey fight with a melee weapon before the Force awakens in her, but people still hate that she knows how to use a lightsaber. I think the only way people would have accepted Rey is if they had a montage of her growing up and learning to survive on Jakku. *Meaning that the Force was controlling her. Fighting with a staff against random thugs is very different from fighting with a lightsaber against a trained jedi/sith. "Trained"? He knew some tricks that he learned from Luke (who was half trained himself). Remember Kylo didn't complete his training. Also, read what I said again. Rey was an avatar for the Force. The Force was controlling her. She was an actual Mary Sue because everything was falling into place by the Force. |
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Post by darkpast on Jun 29, 2018 16:53:02 GMT
Why do Star Wars fans need everything explained How was little Anakin able to build C-3PO, the writers said so
I think writer of TFA wanted to make Rey mysterious and fill in the background later, the next writer thought it wasn't important
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 29, 2018 16:53:53 GMT
Fighting with a staff against random thugs is very different from fighting with a lightsaber against a trained jedi/sith. "Trained"? He knew some tricks that he learned from Luke (who was half trained himself). Remember Kylo didn't complete his training. Also, read what I said again. Rey was an avatar for the Force. The Force was controlling her. She was an actual Mary Sue because everything was falling into place by the Force. Yes, trained. Not graduating from your training doesn't mean you are untrained. And there was no mention of Rey being an avatar of the force. That's a theory that some fans like to throw out, not exactly proven. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 29, 2018 18:59:49 GMT
"Trained"? He knew some tricks that he learned from Luke (who was half trained himself). Remember Kylo didn't complete his training. Also, read what I said again. Rey was an avatar for the Force. The Force was controlling her. She was an actual Mary Sue because everything was falling into place by the Force. Yes, trained. Not graduating from your training doesn't mean you are untrained. And there was no mention of Rey being an avatar of the force. That's a theory that some fans like to throw out, not exactly proven. Doesn't mean you are trained either. If I take one art course out of 20 and quit, that doesn't mean I should be better than a person that has been drawing their whole life without any official training.
It was said in TLJ. Snoke says that the Force brought her up because the Force was unbalanced when Luke shut himself off from it. There was only Snoke and Kylo on the Dark Side. No one for the light. Because Rey was not trained in the Force in any way, the Force did things for her. We did learn that the Force can control a person's actions. Luke's whole argument for not training Rey was that it was an endless cycle. The Force creating someone strong in the Force for the luls proved that. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 29, 2018 19:07:55 GMT
Yes, trained. Not graduating from your training doesn't mean you are untrained. And there was no mention of Rey being an avatar of the force. That's a theory that some fans like to throw out, not exactly proven. Doesn't mean you are trained either. If I take one art course out of 20 and quit, that doesn't mean I should be better than a person that has been drawing their whole life without any official training.
It was said in TLJ. Snoke says that the Force brought her up because the Force was unbalanced when Luke shut himself off from it. There was only Snoke and Kylo on the Dark Side. No one for the light. Because Rey was not trained in the Force in any way, the Force did things for her. We did learn that the Force can control a person's actions. Luke's whole argument for not training Rey was that it was an endless cycle. The Force creating someone strong in the Force for the luls proved that. Except Kylo's training wasn't the equivalent of just one art course out of 20 was it? He was trained by Luke, from all implications for quite some time, then was later on trained by Snoke. So he was therefore trained. Plus he actually had experience using said training in actual application. Meaning he had both formal training and street experience over Rey. And yeah, the force awoke in Rey to balance out Kylo and Snoke. That doesn't mean she's the avatar of the force. I don't think you understand what avatar means. |
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Post by ThatGuy on Jun 29, 2018 19:54:47 GMT
Doesn't mean you are trained either. If I take one art course out of 20 and quit, that doesn't mean I should be better than a person that has been drawing their whole life without any official training.
It was said in TLJ. Snoke says that the Force brought her up because the Force was unbalanced when Luke shut himself off from it. There was only Snoke and Kylo on the Dark Side. No one for the light. Because Rey was not trained in the Force in any way, the Force did things for her. We did learn that the Force can control a person's actions. Luke's whole argument for not training Rey was that it was an endless cycle. The Force creating someone strong in the Force for the luls proved that. Except Kylo's training wasn't the equivalent of just one art course out of 20 was it? He was trained by Luke, from all implications for quite some time, then was later on trained by Snoke. So he was therefore trained. Plus he actually had experience using said training in actual application. Meaning he had both formal training and street experience over Rey. And yeah, the force awoke in Rey to balance out Kylo and Snoke. That doesn't mean she's the avatar of the force. I don't think you understand what avatar means. How do you know how long he was trained by him? Seems you are going by fan theories yourself.
I understand what it means.
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Post by Skaathar on Jun 29, 2018 20:01:22 GMT
Except Kylo's training wasn't the equivalent of just one art course out of 20 was it? He was trained by Luke, from all implications for quite some time, then was later on trained by Snoke. So he was therefore trained. Plus he actually had experience using said training in actual application. Meaning he had both formal training and street experience over Rey. And yeah, the force awoke in Rey to balance out Kylo and Snoke. That doesn't mean she's the avatar of the force. I don't think you understand what avatar means. How do you know how long he was trained by him? Seems you are going by fan theories yourself.
I understand what it means.
Based on how young padawans usually start training, how old Kylo was when he left Luke, and how old he was when we next see him with Snoke. Simple math really. No, it doesn't seem like you understand what it means. Not when you think Rey is the avatar of the force. |
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Post by thenewnexus on Jun 30, 2018 23:17:23 GMT
Rey touches Ren and gets the force lazy writing.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jul 1, 2018 0:54:27 GMT
I also like to point out Kylo had a blast wound to his gut from the bow caster. He is bleeding in the snow. You see him hitting it during the fight to make himself more angry which would've made him more powerful but less controlled. Which showed in the fight he was aggressive and sloppy. Also Rey's technique is shite. There is not much difference from her technique than Finn to begin with. Finn got a hit on Kylo's shoulder. Which means 2 things: One he had another wound this time on an appendage he uses to fight with. Two it shows that if he was trained well, then the gut wound must of knocked him for a loop, because Finn wasn't trained in light sabre. When she starts to fight she is just lunging. And barely blocking Kylo's shots. Most of the fight she is running from him. With Kylo getting cocky. Also Kylo doesn't really want to hurt her. He wants her to turn. So Cocky and lack of drive to kill. "You need a teacher I can show you the ways of the force" He says that instead of knocking her into the cliff. He could've easily killed her right then. This makes her remember what Maz Kanata said to do... close her eyes and let the Force Flow through her. She does and it awakens inside her. Her technique afterwards is still shite but she's strong.
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