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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 8, 2018 13:07:06 GMT
is the revelation regarding Rey’s parents. I get that there were all kinds of fan theories after TFA regarding who Rey’s parents were (and most of them came across as bad fan fiction), but at no point do I recall TFA ever implying that her parents were significant people. If anything, I’d think that the revelation about her parents should actually have been considered a welcome change of pace. Think about it, in a franchise where everyone seems to be related to someone of great importance, the fact that the protagonist of the sequel trilogy is essentially a nobody is incredibly refreshing.
Plus, given how Rey has received flack for supposedly being a Mary Sue, wouldn’t establishing that she’s the beloved daughter of a famous hero only serve to excacerbate that issue?
For the record, I’m by no means suggesting TLJ is perfect. I understand many of the complaints about the movie. I just don’t get why the revelation about Rey’s lineage is one of the things people take issue with.
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Post by jimanchower on Jul 8, 2018 16:39:03 GMT
is the revelation regarding Rey’s parents. I get that there were all kinds of fan theories after TFA regarding who Rey’s parents were (and most of them came across as bad fan fiction), but at no point do I recall TFA ever implying that her parents were significant people. If anything, I’d think that the revelation about her parents should actually have been considered a welcome change of pace. Think about it, in a franchise where everyone seems to be related to someone of great importance, the fact that the protagonist of the sequel trilogy is essentially a nobody is incredibly refreshing. Plus, given how Rey has received flack for supposedly being a Mary Sue, wouldn’t establishing that she’s the beloved daughter of a famous hero only serve to excacerbate that issue? For the record, I’m by no means suggesting TLJ is perfect. I understand many of the complaints about the movie. I just don’t get why the revelation about Rey’s lineage is one of the things people take issue with. Because it’s SW and everyone is related. Also she’s so strong with the force and since TFA was basically a remake of ANH people expected Rey’s story to mimic Luke’s. I didn’t care about her origin or her family because I don’t care about Rey. There’s nothing interesting about her. She’s just sort of there and the story unfolds around her. |
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Post by politicidal on Jul 9, 2018 16:52:34 GMT
I guess if I spent a lot of time and energy speculating and then it's something anticlimactic like that, I'd be pissed too. Btw, I'm equally indifferent to that plot detail as well.
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 9, 2018 20:53:56 GMT
is the revelation regarding Rey’s parents. I get that there were all kinds of fan theories after TFA regarding who Rey’s parents were (and most of them came across as bad fan fiction), but at no point do I recall TFA ever implying that her parents were significant people. If anything, I’d think that the revelation about her parents should actually have been considered a welcome change of pace. Think about it, in a franchise where everyone seems to be related to someone of great importance, the fact that the protagonist of the sequel trilogy is essentially a nobody is incredibly refreshing. This wouldn't have been so bad if finding out who Rey's parents were wasn't her only motivation. Everything else about Rey is either forced upon her/she doesn't want it, or it's part of her character by defacto. Part of good drama is getting your audience to care about the things that your main characters care about. And the only thing Rey emphatically cared about through 2 movies is finding the identity of her parents. They literally beat us over the head with this storyline. So while Rey's parents being nobodies might come off as a refreshing theme of new blood, many people found it very deflating. You simply don't ask your audience to care about something so much and then give them nothing. They should've dialed back Rey's obsession with it. Actually I think it makes the MarySue issue worse. People threw a hissy fit over midichlorians. But at least it was an attempt by Lucas to explain why Anakin was so powerful, even at an early age. Rey? Every theme leads to nothing. It's not her parents or lineage! It's not training! We now know... it has nothing to do with Kylo being hurt; ...nothing to do with the lightsaber! The first Force user with absolutely no exposition on this. And don't ask for any because if you do, you must be a misogynist! (Technically Snoke might be the second without exposition, which is why some fans were put off when he was killed off without revealing any). I've said it before and I'll say it again. Rey is not a SW template character. She is a template Disney warrior princess. Disney's warrior princesses never give exposition to how they come by their power or magic. In fact, it's usually a matter of the power and magic choosing them out of sympathy and fondness. Their power/magic is often limitless. And the warrior princess has often done nothing to develop it or earn it. All they have to do is just believe in themselves. They often come from an oppressed and humble place, and are often either orphans or societal nobodies. That's the Disney warrior princess template, and that's Rey. It works well in Disney movies, but some of it doesn't fit so well into the SW universe. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 10, 2018 22:41:22 GMT
is the revelation regarding Rey’s parents. I get that there were all kinds of fan theories after TFA regarding who Rey’s parents were (and most of them came across as bad fan fiction), but at no point do I recall TFA ever implying that her parents were significant people. If anything, I’d think that the revelation about her parents should actually have been considered a welcome change of pace. Think about it, in a franchise where everyone seems to be related to someone of great importance, the fact that the protagonist of the sequel trilogy is essentially a nobody is incredibly refreshing. Plus, given how Rey has received flack for supposedly being a Mary Sue, wouldn’t establishing that she’s the beloved daughter of a famous hero only serve to excacerbate that issue? For the record, I’m by no means suggesting TLJ is perfect. I understand many of the complaints about the movie. I just don’t get why the revelation about Rey’s lineage is one of the things people take issue with. Making her parents nobodies just emphasized her Mary-Sueness all the more. Had her parents been people who were exceptionally strong with the force, had one of her parents been a midichlorian, heck if they both were midichlorian... then at least we would have had some kind of explanation why Rey can so easily do the things she does. But by making them nobodies, it just reinforced the thinking that Rey can do everything she does for no other reason than she's good at doing them. |
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 11, 2018 3:03:23 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either.
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Post by jimanchower on Jul 11, 2018 4:25:49 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either. He didn’t say anyone wanted that and I’ve certainly never heard anyone say anything about wanting midichlorians in relation to Rey. |
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Post by Skaathar on Jul 11, 2018 4:51:46 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either. Now how did you end up with that idea? |
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Post by Tristan's Journal on Jul 11, 2018 10:54:47 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either. midichlorians served their purpose to explain things, eg why robots are not force sensitive, or who Anakin's father was.
Giving Rey a highborn background would have indeed ticked another Mary Sue box (mysterious background, descending from important canon-characters) but it might have explained some stuff (badly) in the mind of some fans.
Also there are not just the (false) dilemmas of the box being empty vs the box filled with canon-character. They could have come up with new characters and a fresh backstory and plot for her background.
But subversion instead of originality...Just stating: "Your MaRey Sue theory sucks" by revealing the box to be empty to begin with is lazy writing; if you make a promise of a mystery be sure there is some substance to it...or backlash guaranteed (see Lost, or better don't).
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Post by thisguy4000 on Jul 11, 2018 14:55:51 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either. Now how did you end up with that idea? You mentioned that they could’ve gone with the midichlorians as a possible explanation for why Rey is force sensitive. That just sounds like it would’ve attracted even more controversy. Maybe “want” wasn’t the right word, but the bottom line is that I think most people would rather not be reminded of the midichlorians. |
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Post by jimanchower on Jul 11, 2018 18:03:44 GMT
People really wanted them to bring back midichlorians? That doesn’t sound like it would please very many people either. midichlorians served their purpose to explain things, eg why robots are not force sensitive, or who Anakin's father was.
Giving Rey a highborn background would have indeed ticked another Mary Sue box (mysterious background, descending from important canon-characters) but it might have explained some stuff (badly) in the mind of some fans.
Also there are not just the (false) dilemmas of the box being empty vs the box filled with canon-character. They could have come up with new characters and a fresh backstory and plot for her background.
But subversion instead of originality...Just stating: "Your MaRey Sue theory sucks" by revealing the box to be empty to begin with is lazy writing; if you make a promise of a mystery be sure there is some substance to it...or backlash guaranteed (see Lost, or better don't).
There was no need to explain why some were force sensitive and others weren’t. The Force is part of a religion and mystical. And Johnson left so much stuff unexplained that should have been explained or at least explored...like MaZ Nd the lightsaber, Rey’s parents, who Snoke was etc. you can’t set all that stuff up and then just ignore it, especially by shoving in crap nobody cares about. i just saw something about John Boyega (or whatever his name is) saying Ep 9 won’t seperate Rey and Finn. Does anyone give a shit about the relationship between Rey and Finn? They’ve known each other a couple of days. They don’t have any chemistry, they just happened to be involved in a situation together. |
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Post by Waxer-n-boil on Jul 12, 2018 1:39:44 GMT
Now how did you end up with that idea? You mentioned that they could’ve gone with the midichlorians as a possible explanation for why Rey is force sensitive. That just sounds like it would’ve attracted even more controversy. Maybe “want” wasn’t the right word, but the bottom line is that I think most people would rather not be reminded of the midichlorians. It's not a matter of bringing back midichlorians. Midichlorians was just one means of explaining being very gifted in the Force. Some people didn't like it because they felt it robbed the Force of all of it's mysticism (...which wasn't completely true but that's another debate for another time). The problem is that there is NO exposition when it comes to Rey. Maybe you remember all of the talk from TFA defenders about some of the questions it raised... "Rey's parents will be somebody in the next movie. That will help explain her powers." "They will explain how the lightsaber got in Maz's castle. It probably is a vergance in the Force and triggers Rey's powers." "Rey only appeared as powerful (or more powerful) against Kylo because he was injured. She is not really the most powerful Jedi ever." All of those theoretical explanations were proven false in TLJ. And we were left with no exposition all over again. Yes, the Force has always been portrayed as partly or primarily mystical. But one thing it was never portrayed as was a dumbed down "wish fulfillment power". But so far that's exactly what it has been concerning Rey. (Just close your eyes and whatever you wish for will happen OR whenever your adrenaline kicks in your powers will make you invincible!) It doesn't have to be Rey having famous Force sensitive parents, or midichlorians. But some kind of exposition to her greatness would probably make Rey's parents being nobodies more palatable. |
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