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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 9, 2018 4:39:42 GMT
Randyll's son and Randyll were given the choice to kneel. They would have been spared and not killed had they put their lives above their ego. Egoistic Randyll got death because he chose death. Typically tyrannical behaviour with barely an example in actual medieval history. Traitors were sentenced to death but prisoners were ransomed or kept, not forced to choose between rallying or dying. Tarlys were no traitors but the Tyrells were, allied with a foreign invader. Randyll died because Daenerys is the epitome of the violent, hypocritical "progressive", the revolutionary. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 9, 2018 4:45:53 GMT
I don't think my opinions are biased and I never said I didn't like Dany she started out for me as one of my favorites characters , but her decisions in recent seasons and her involement with Jon And some things she did turned me off I think they are changing her a lot , Daenerys didn't change. Season 2, Ep. 4: "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." That's just what she's been doing in S7. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 9, 2018 17:00:48 GMT
I don't think my opinions are biased and I never said I didn't like Dany she started out for me as one of my favorites characters , but her decisions in recent seasons and her involement with Jon And some things she did turned me off I think they are changing her a lot ,and trust me if I can see it then others do because I worshiped Dany ,Dany used to be different more sensitive to others feelings and sadly she has lost this , I think Jon said it best to her last season if you use your dragons to burn people then you are not better than the ones you are fighting , and he was right , I think Dany may realize this but it may be too late for her, I prefer for her to have a heroic death or survive and go away to Meeren where she will be happier ruling there , yes I agree with you Randall Tarly was at war with her and didn't care if he died , but he did care for his son , she didn't have to burn his son , that is stuff her mad father used to do , even Tyrion looked horrified , and one of those close to her Tyrion, Jon or someone else will betray her ,I'm prepared whatever end writers of show and books do I may not like it but will accept it Unless is something stupid . People who are biased often are unaware of their own bias. That you used to like Dany a lot once upon a time doesn't mean you cannot get biased now. This thread and it's contents or your mention of Dany's ex and return to Essos seem to indicate you have extreme amount of dislike or contempt for Dany. Also, returning back to Essos is the last thing Dany will do. Her whole life and mission was to come to Westeros. Randyll's son and Randyll were given the choice to kneel. They would have been spared and not killed had they put their lives above their ego. Egoistic Randyll got death because he chose death.
The thing is that you are making a mountain out of mole in this thread. Dany killing Randyll or his son is not going to have any difference on Jon Snow.
i guess we will have to wait and see when the show comes back i honestly like danys ex-he is way hot  i dont see it as a punishment for her going back ..lol i actually LIKE THEM TOGETHER and i think he had genuine feelings for her , and dany just brushed it aside she even told tyrion she cant feel any love ,sadly for dany the man she fell in love with Jon snow loves someone else and that is going to be another tragedy for her. It was her brothers mission to come to westeros and conquer not dany's , dany wasnt like that , she has been changing slowly and in time and done in such subtle way all dany said in season 1 was she didnt want to be khals queen and wanted to go home , but her brother wanted power and to rule restore targaryens , this talk came out of dany after she smothered khal drogo. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 9, 2018 17:04:11 GMT
People who are biased often are unaware of their own bias. That you used to like Dany a lot once upon a time doesn't mean you cannot get biased now. This thread and it's contents or your mention of Dany's ex and return to Essos seem to indicate you have extreme amount of dislike or contempt for Dany. Also, returning back to Essos is the last thing Dany will do. Her whole life and mission was to come to Westeros. Randyll's son and Randyll were given the choice to kneel. They would have been spared and not killed had they put their lives above their ego. Egoistic Randyll got death because he chose death.
The thing is that you are making a mountain out of mole in this thread. Dany killing Randyll or his son is not going to have any difference on Jon Snow.
i guess we will have to wait and see when the show comes back i honestly like danys ex-he is way hot i dont see it as a punishment for her going back ..lol i actually LIKE THEM TOGETHER and i think he had genuine feelings for her , and dany just brushed it aside she even told tyrion she cant feel any love ,sadly for dany the man she fell in love with Jon snow loves someone else and that is going to be another tragedy for her. It was her brothers mission to come to westeros and conquer not dany's , dany wasnt like that , she has been changing slowly and in time and done in such subtle way all dany said in season 1 was she didnt want to be khals queen and wanted to go home , but her brother wanted power and to rule restore targaryens , this talk came out of dany after she smothered khal drogo. All that said I do like to say that I think you are very nice person and all of us have some bias. During S7's beginning even I was writing biased posts and I may have occasionally defended Stannis Baratheon (My fav character along with Arya) using biased views. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 9, 2018 17:09:26 GMT
I don't think my opinions are biased and I never said I didn't like Dany she started out for me as one of my favorites characters , but her decisions in recent seasons and her involement with Jon And some things she did turned me off I think they are changing her a lot , Daenerys didn't change. Season 2, Ep. 4: "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." That's just what she's been doing in S7. Season 1 she was different she changed slowly i think once she realized she cant be burned and had something special in her and after she smothered khal drogo she knew she had power ..i know to some fans he seemed dead weight to carry around if he was kept alive or maybe would have died on his own , i would have preferred that than smothering him someone once told me that Dany smothering khal drogo was the first act of murder she committed and her first act of power -ruling the drothraki or whatever was left of them at that time she slowly grew her armies gained more power with three large dragons even had a lannister on her side (tyrion) and others who left kings landing i didnt see it that way early on but now seven seasons after i can see that dany made a lot of decisions maybe even unaware to her that come across impulsive to some even mad. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 9, 2018 17:10:22 GMT
i guess we will have to wait and see when the show comes back i honestly like danys ex-he is way hot i dont see it as a punishment for her going back ..lol i actually LIKE THEM TOGETHER and i think he had genuine feelings for her , and dany just brushed it aside she even told tyrion she cant feel any love ,sadly for dany the man she fell in love with Jon snow loves someone else and that is going to be another tragedy for her. It was her brothers mission to come to westeros and conquer not dany's , dany wasnt like that , she has been changing slowly and in time and done in such subtle way all dany said in season 1 was she didnt want to be khals queen and wanted to go home , but her brother wanted power and to rule restore targaryens , this talk came out of dany after she smothered khal drogo. All that said I do like to say that I think you are very nice person and all of us have some bias. During S7's beginning even I was writing biased posts and I may have occasionally defended Stannis Baratheon (My fav character along with Arya) using biased views. thank you i think youre a nice person too  yes i agree we all have biases |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 9, 2018 17:29:08 GMT
It was her brothers mission to come to westeros and conquer not dany's , dany wasnt like that , she has been changing slowly and in time and done in such subtle way all dany said in season 1 was she didnt want to be khals queen and wanted to go home , but her brother wanted power and to rule restore targaryens , this talk came out of dany after she smothered khal drogo. Book-Daenerys is conflicted about the whole thing. She resents having to play queen and is frightened by it. In a late chapter, she is made to think of it as wearing "floppy ears", playing a part she never truly wanted. This aspect was removed from the show. From the moment she took charge of the few people who stayed with her in S1E10, she never looked back. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 9, 2018 17:50:04 GMT
Daenerys didn't change. Season 2, Ep. 4: "When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who have wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground." That's just what she's been doing in S7. Season 1 she was different she changed slowly i think once she realized she cant be burned and had something special in her and after she smothered khal drogo she knew she had power ..i know to some fans he seemed dead weight to carry around if he was kept alive or maybe would have died on his own , i would have preferred that than smothering him someone once told me that Dany smothering khal drogo was the first act of murder she committed and her first act of power -ruling the drothraki or whatever was left of them at that time she slowly grew her armies gained more power with three large dragons even had a lannister on her side (tyrion) and others who left kings landing i didnt see it that way early on but now seven seasons after i can see that dany made a lot of decisions maybe even unaware to her that come across impulsive to some even mad. She is not mad, just absolutely determined to have things her way, at all costs. She killed her unresponsive husband assuming "this was not life" without any way of knowing how he felt about it. We keep people alive in beds because we cannot answer this question and refuse to make such an assumption. It didn't bother her. She mourned her loss of him, not his death. She burned Mirri Maz Durr without a trial, without even calling it a punishment. She merely used her: "it is not your screams I want, only your life". She was always ready to use violence towards obstacles. S2E02: Jorah: "They don't like the idea of a woman leading a Khalasar." Daenerys: "They will like it far less when I am done with them." Like a small dog barking louder out of fear, she is willing to destroy anything that looks bigger than herself. She will crucify masters without a trial in Meereen, feed another to her dragons just to terrify others. Her fans are like her. They are those who assume oppression at every corner, yapping for "freedom" to do anything they fear could be contradicted by someone, ready to delete half the world for it if they could. |
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 10, 2018 5:47:23 GMT
Season 1 she was different she changed slowly i think once she realized she cant be burned and had something special in her and after she smothered khal drogo she knew she had power ..i know to some fans he seemed dead weight to carry around if he was kept alive or maybe would have died on his own , i would have preferred that than smothering him someone once told me that Dany smothering khal drogo was the first act of murder she committed and her first act of power -ruling the drothraki or whatever was left of them at that time she slowly grew her armies gained more power with three large dragons even had a lannister on her side (tyrion) and others who left kings landing i didnt see it that way early on but now seven seasons after i can see that dany made a lot of decisions maybe even unaware to her that come across impulsive to some even mad. She is not mad, just absolutely determined to have things her way, at all costs. She killed her unresponsive husband assuming "this was not life" without any way of knowing how he felt about it. We keep people alive in beds because we cannot answer this question and refuse to make such an assumption. It didn't bother her. She mourned her loss of him, not his death. She burned Mirri Maz Durr without a trial, without even calling it a punishment. She merely used her: "it is not your screams I want, only your life". She was always ready to use violence towards obstacles. S2E02: Jorah: "They don't like the idea of a woman leading a Khalasar." Daenerys: "They will like it far less when I am done with them." Like a small dog barking louder out of fear, she is willing to destroy anything that looks bigger than herself. She will crucify masters without a trial in Meereen, feed another to her dragons just to terrify others. Her fans are like her. They are those who assume oppression at every corner, yapping for "freedom" to do anything they fear could be contradicted by someone, ready to delete half the world for it if they could. I do not greatly disagree with your views about Dany. She does show some of the tendencies you believe she often shows. Though I believe it is not to as much extent as you think. That said we never know when turns more tyrannical. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 10, 2018 6:10:03 GMT
She is not mad, just absolutely determined to have things her way, at all costs. She killed her unresponsive husband assuming "this was not life" without any way of knowing how he felt about it. We keep people alive in beds because we cannot answer this question and refuse to make such an assumption. It didn't bother her. She mourned her loss of him, not his death. She burned Mirri Maz Durr without a trial, without even calling it a punishment. She merely used her: "it is not your screams I want, only your life". She was always ready to use violence towards obstacles. S2E02: Jorah: "They don't like the idea of a woman leading a Khalasar." Daenerys: "They will like it far less when I am done with them." Like a small dog barking louder out of fear, she is willing to destroy anything that looks bigger than herself. She will crucify masters without a trial in Meereen, feed another to her dragons just to terrify others. Her fans are like her. They are those who assume oppression at every corner, yapping for "freedom" to do anything they fear could be contradicted by someone, ready to delete half the world for it if they could. I do not greatly disagree with your views about Dany. She does show some of the tendencies you believe she often shows. Though I believe it is not to as much extent as you think. That said we never know when turns more tyrannical. It is a gradual process. We see it announced in S1 ("I do not have a gentle heart") and it keeps growing along the series. She always has to be reigned in. Sometimes it doesn't work. Barristan advising mercy in Meereen will not be heeded but Jorah will convince her not to destroy Yunkai. She listens to Barristan in S5 and it backfires. Left on her own, she traps all the Dothraki Khals and kills them in cold blood (little progressive shits rejoice loudly). By the end of S6, she wants to kill everything but Tyrion proposes a better solution. In S7, Olenna telling her not to listen to men (typical feminist crap) and to "be a dragon" is all she really wants to hear. Tyrion finds it always more difficult to advise her and it ends in her disregarding him. She burns the Tarlys, flies north to disaster and jumps in bed with Jon but only after he submits to her. I think we can assume she will only "be a dragon" in the final season. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 11, 2018 19:50:44 GMT
I do not greatly disagree with your views about Dany. She does show some of the tendencies you believe she often shows. Though I believe it is not to as much extent as you think. That said we never know when turns more tyrannical. It is a gradual process. We see it announced in S1 ("I do not have a gentle heart") and it keeps growing along the series. She always has to be reigned in. Sometimes it doesn't work. Barristan advising mercy in Meereen will not be heeded but Jorah will convince her not to destroy Yunkai. She listens to Barristan in S5 and it backfires. Left on her own, she traps all the Dothraki Khals and kills them in cold blood (little progressive shits rejoice loudly). By the end of S6, she wants to kill everything but Tyrion proposes a better solution. In S7, Olenna telling her not to listen to men (typical feminist crap) and to "be a dragon" is all she really wants to hear. Tyrion finds it always more difficult to advise her and it ends in her disregarding him. She burns the Tarlys, flies north to disaster and jumps in bed with Jon but only after he submits to her. I think we can assume she will only "be a dragon" in the final season. Leo of the stuff you listed are true but a lot people would describe those things as madness as well ,Barristan told her what her father used to do and she keeps saying im nothing like my father-jon told her 'they (northerners) will see you for what you are' is he kidding me? didnt he tell dany in the caves at dragonstone that his people would never accept a southern ruler? dany jumped into bed with him because she thinks she can treat jon like her other lovers but i think jon was playing her this time , and he never really submitted to her , he said he would bend the knee if he could but couldnt because he was hurt , , didnt LF say to sansa last season 'history will repeat itself maybe with a few differences but everything will be something you watched or heard before ' i know youre a cersei fan but just in case dany does take the throne she wont enjoy it for long if she is meant to have a similar death to her father someone will stab her on the throne ,most highly contenders : tyrion , jorah, jon ,varys -most likely IMO will be jorah if it happens that way also emilia clarke did cut her hair when she was filming game of thrones, - speculation is dany cuts her braids in shame like the drothraki do when they loose battles. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 12, 2018 1:36:05 GMT
It is a gradual process. We see it announced in S1 ("I do not have a gentle heart") and it keeps growing along the series. She always has to be reigned in. Sometimes it doesn't work. Barristan advising mercy in Meereen will not be heeded but Jorah will convince her not to destroy Yunkai. She listens to Barristan in S5 and it backfires. Left on her own, she traps all the Dothraki Khals and kills them in cold blood (little progressive shits rejoice loudly). By the end of S6, she wants to kill everything but Tyrion proposes a better solution. In S7, Olenna telling her not to listen to men (typical feminist crap) and to "be a dragon" is all she really wants to hear. Tyrion finds it always more difficult to advise her and it ends in her disregarding him. She burns the Tarlys, flies north to disaster and jumps in bed with Jon but only after he submits to her. I think we can assume she will only "be a dragon" in the final season. Leo of the stuff you listed are true but a lot people would describe those things as madness as well … Lots of people don't even understand their own language. Madness is an inability to think and estimate one's environment rationally. This does not apply to any of the above or to anything Daenerys ever did. She is always in control of her thoughts and emotions. The horrors she does are calculated and to the point, not reactions to fantasised threats, not the result of irrational conceptions of herself or the world. Lysa Arryn's exaggerated fears about everything were madness. Selyse's fanatical belief in the Lord of Light can also be seen as such. When Cersei threatens to "burn cities to the ground" or her own house (to Tywin in S4E10) she does so in emotional outbursts as a reaction to an overwhelming fear. Cersei is hot tempered but does not act upon her own threats. Daenerys, on the other hand, kills people from a position of indisputable power and control. She does it like others clean their house. She uses her dragons the same way people burn weed that grows between a pavement. She is the ape who learns to use a bone at the beginning of 2001. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 12, 2018 5:46:17 GMT
dany jumped into bed with him because she thinks she can treat jon like her other lovers but i think jon was playing her this time , and he never really submitted to her , he said he would bend the knee if he could but couldnt because he was hurt , , didnt LF say to sansa last season 'history will repeat itself maybe with a few differences but everything will be something you watched or heard before ' Were any hints given that Jon is "playing" Daenerys? Did he look any different than his usual honest self? Did he say things good old doggy Jon wouldn't say? I seriously do not think so because I never saw it mentioned anywhere. Yes, I know, not watching the thing doesn't help discussing it, but where there is no smoke, there is probably no fire either. If there were hints at Daenerys being her usual slut and Jon consciously taking advantage of it for his own purpose, there would be a few people to say that their relationship is not the worst and cheesiest event in the series since Arya survived the Waif and jumped out of Walder Frey's pie. I have not seen such a defence. As to Littlefinger's statement (which I cannot find, it must have been worded differently), I guess it only means he sees the game as a limited possibility of moves, like a studied chess player who recognises patterns and expects them. "Nothing new under the sun" is another way of saying it. Having the Mad King's fall repeat itself with another character would be cheap and easy, which sadly means it is entirely likely to happen now. Cersei is half mad in the books but not in the show so my take on this is that it is another misdirection. GRRM plants a "mad queen" he will not use only to throw off his readers. Now, having Daenerys killed by someone who wrongly sees her father's madness in her would be something new and more interesting. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 12, 2018 16:53:34 GMT
dany jumped into bed with him because she thinks she can treat jon like her other lovers but i think jon was playing her this time , and he never really submitted to her , he said he would bend the knee if he could but couldnt because he was hurt , , didnt LF say to sansa last season 'history will repeat itself maybe with a few differences but everything will be something you watched or heard before ' Were any hints given that Jon is "playing" Daenerys? Did he look any different than his usual honest self? Did he say things good old doggy Jon wouldn't say? I seriously do not think so because I never saw it mentioned anywhere. Yes, I know, not watching the thing doesn't help discussing it, but where there is no smoke, there is probably no fire either. If there were hints at Daenerys being her usual slut and Jon consciously taking advantage of it for his own purpose, there would be a few people to say that their relationship is not the worst and cheesiest event in the series since Arya survived the Waif and jumped out of Walder Frey's pie. I have not seen such a defence. As to Littlefinger's statement (which I cannot find, it must have been worded differently), I guess it only means he sees the game as a limited possibility of moves, like a studied chess player who recognises patterns and expects them. "Nothing new under the sun" is another way of saying it. Having the Mad King's fall repeat itself with another character would be cheap and easy, which sadly means it is entirely likely to happen now. Cersei is half mad in the books but not in the show so my take on this is that it is another misdirection. GRRM plants a "mad queen" he will not use only to throw off his readers. Now, having Daenerys killed by someone who wrongly sees her father's madness in her would be something new and more interesting. Yes Leo I think Jon was very different with Dany , he was more cautious with her hide many of his emotions in front of her like when getting word that arya and bran are still alive ,like when they had that discussion when Jon was injured in bed that was the discussion that convinced me that Jon is playing her she just lost one of her dragons because of him so I think Jon played it right ,writers did cut out a scene of Dany flipping out on Tyrion when her dragon died blaming Jon for everything .I think Jon sensed that Dany likes him and I'm sure he likes her too but I don't think he trusts her and thought getting closer to her in other ways would benefit his cause when I watch shows I also pay attention to looks expressions not only what is said it may small things here and there but that's what my gut tells me so yes it is hard if you don't watch it to know what I mean but I do think Jon is a good man and he is trying to get as much help he can to fight the WW after the zombie war is over if Dany is still alive she will definitely go mad when she learns Jon is a targryegn and she will think Jon used her and wants the throne for himself . This is the video of LF and Sansa talking and yes I didn't word it right but the meaning is still the Same discussion begins at 2:00 minute mark |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 12, 2018 17:06:08 GMT
Leo of Red Keep here is the video of Jon and Dany Supposedly Jon bends the knee ,he doesn't, look at his face he looks like he is lying He is recognizing her as his queen because Dany has dragons and he needs them to fight off the WW Also Jon calling her Dany, Dany responds only her brother used to call her that I was a long time believer that Dany /Jon were twins but that theory didn't happen As they were revealed nephew aunt , but wouldn't that be a twist if it turned out to be true?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 12, 2018 17:56:53 GMT
Ok, found it.
The exact quote, S7E03, 43'42":
Littlefinger: "Fight every battle, everywhere, always, in your mind… Every possible series of events is happening all at once. Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something that you've seen before."
This is not foreshadowing, only the chess player's lesson telling the apprentice to rehearse every possible situation and be prepared for it.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 12, 2018 18:40:33 GMT
Ok, found it. The exact quote, S7E03, 43'42": Littlefinger: "Fight every battle, everywhere, always, in your mind… Every possible series of events is happening all at once. Live that way and nothing will surprise you. Everything that happens will be something that you've seen before." This is not foreshadowing, only the chess player's lesson telling the apprentice to rehearse every possible situation and be prepared for it. Maybe so but Sansa was listening and she turned the tables on LF 😀😀😀😉 |
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i dont see it as a punishment for her going back ..lol i actually LIKE THEM TOGETHER and i think he had genuine feelings for her , and dany just brushed it aside she even told tyrion she cant feel any love ,sadly for dany the man she fell in love with Jon snow loves someone else and that is going to be another tragedy for her. It was her brothers mission to come to westeros and conquer not dany's , dany wasnt like that , she has been changing slowly and in time and done in such subtle way all dany said in season 1 was she didnt want to be khals queen and wanted to go home , but her brother wanted power and to rule restore targaryens , this talk came out of dany after she smothered khal drogo.
yes i agree we all have biases