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Post by Aj_June on Aug 29, 2018 5:35:20 GMT
It's sad. He had made an identity for himself in the first half of the show. He was depicted as one of the more intelligent characters. He played a massive part in defeating Stannis (even though his father also played a big role). Back in first 3 seasons he was doing things by himself. He moved the storyline and carried other characters. But ever since he left Westeros he became a not so special character.
But season 7 was awful for him. It's not that the producers decided to make his strategies fail. His strategies were simply stupid to begin with. Why would you split your army in two parts and weaken your power? Because of his stupidity Olenna and Dornish characters had to pay. And even Cersei seemed to have outsmarted him. What's worse is that by the last episode he was nothing more than a creepy voyeur (OK I am joking about the last thing ).
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 29, 2018 6:07:02 GMT
The writing has been throwing logic to the winds since the last 3rd of S5. Did anyone ever wonder how Jorah hoped to achieve anything by fighting in the arena after being banned a 2nd time? He was written there so he could redeem himself by fighting the Sons of the Harpy, just like Davos was made to risk his life around a worthless corpse for no apparent reason. Both characters were made to act as if they'd read the script.
Tyrion's decline serves the same purpose. He has to be in a bad place again, failing so he can change his mind about what he set out to do. One of the constants of this story is to place main characters in a state of inner conflict. He was made to say "I never believed in anything, but now I believe in you", so he must be made to doubt and recant that belief. He will be made to seek forgiveness from two women he hurt. He killed one's father, the other's only friend and both will be equally conflicted facing him.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 29, 2018 6:46:56 GMT
The writing has been throwing logic to the winds since the last 3rd of S5. Did anyone ever wonder how Jorah hoped to achieve anything by fighting in the arena after being banned a 2nd time? He was written there so he could redeem himself by fighting the Sons of the Harpy, just like Davos was made to risk his life around a worthless corpse for no apparent reason. Both characters were made to act as if they'd read the script. Tyrion's decline serves the same purpose. He has to be in a bad place again, failing so he can change his mind about what he set out to do. One of the constants of this story is to place main characters in a state of inner conflict. He was made to say "I never believed in anything, but now I believe in you", so he must be made to doubt and recant that belief. He will be made to seek forgiveness from two women he hurt. He killed one's father, the other's only friend and both will be equally conflicted facing him. I think the producers are only hurting the overall future legacy of the show by changing the main traits of various characters just to accommodate what they want to do with other characters such as Dany, Sansa or Jon. Tyrion should have remained as smart and as dominating in the last 3 seasons as he was in the first 4. The producers are getting away with their current behaviour because the first 4 seasons of the show already created so much sensation that average fans can't let go of their obsession for the show for as long as it is not finished. But eventually, the legacy will be decided by the overall quality of the show. Tyrion was one of the most successful characters of the show and is currently a cash cow.
He was not successful character just because he is a good actor and a dwarf and liked to have sex with women in his role. He was successful character because he was intelligent and used his mind to overcome his size and position. He would slap a future king without thinking twice, confidently stop rapists from killing Jon Snow and crack jokes at various Lords. Now he has been reduced to play a sidekick to some stupid queen with no great intelligence. It simply doesn't look natural.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 29, 2018 7:09:53 GMT
Yes, the show has gone down the mass pleasing drain. It's nothing new and its authors couldn't care less. It makes them richer than the more intelligent variant they could have made. I hear they are moving on to work in the Star Crap area, which will make them even richer for dumping worse shit on the world. That's the only legacy they care for.
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Aug 29, 2018 10:54:57 GMT
It's all part of the steering away from the books the show did starting in season 5.
In 'A Dance with Dragons' Tyrion's character takes a dark turn after killing Tywin, and its very, very interesting, as are his adventures in Essos. A shame we'll never see it now.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 29, 2018 11:05:07 GMT
It's all part of the steering away from the books the show did starting in season 5. In 'A Dance with Dragons' Tyrion's character takes a dark turn after killing Tywin, and its very, very interesting, as are his adventures in Essos. A shame we'll never see it now. Book-Tyrion's evolution will undoubtedly be more interesting than anything he does in the show but it might well turn out to be a decline as well, just not in writing quality. He's become a bit of a hateful wreck.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 29, 2018 19:54:43 GMT
It's all part of the steering away from the books the show did starting in season 5. In 'A Dance with Dragons' Tyrion's character takes a dark turn after killing Tywin, and its very, very interesting, as are his adventures in Essos. A shame we'll never see it now. Book-Tyrion's evolution will undoubtedly be more interesting than anything he does in the show but it might well turn out to be a decline as well, just not in writing quality. He's become a bit of a hateful wreck. Tyrion wont turn his back on his family in the end , if not jon or jorah then it will be tyrion who "betrays" daenyrys.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 1:21:49 GMT
Tyrion is my favorite character. And I very much enjoyed seeing him paired with Deny (my second favorite character)... But his character development screeched to a halt after he left Westeros. Killing his father, and more importantly, the woman he loved should have sent him down a dark path as a profoundly changed person. But it didn't. He basically just got over it and became a sidekick for Deny.
I still enjoy his presence on the show, but they kind of blew it when it came to giving him any sort of compelling character arc.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Aug 31, 2018 4:45:43 GMT
Tyrion is my favorite character. And I very much enjoyed seeing him paired with Deny (my second favorite character)... But his character development screeched to a halt after he left Westeros. Killing his father, and more importantly, the woman he loved should have sent him down a dark path as a profoundly changed person. But it didn't. He basically just got over it and became a sidekick for Deny. I still enjoy his presence on the show, but they kind of blew it when it came to giving him any sort of compelling character arc. Would you say his role got smaller and smaller?
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Post by shinnickneth on Aug 31, 2018 5:59:20 GMT
Tyrion wont turn his back on his family in the end , if not jon or jorah then it will be tyrion who "betrays" daenyrys. I think you're right. Tyrion's way of advising would make sense if he turns out to be working to undermine and weaken Dany's position in favor of House Lannister.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 31, 2018 10:44:56 GMT
Tyrion wont turn his back on his family in the end , if not jon or jorah then it will be tyrion who "betrays" daenyrys. I think you're right. Tyrion's way of advising would make sense if he turns out to be working to undermine and weaken Dany's position in favor of House Lannister. I agree to a certain extent however I do see him at most working for himself. House Lannister is controlled by Cersei and he doesn't get along with her. He doesn't have a great relation with Jaime anymore. Even if still loves his brother he hasn't been in contact and don't think show is hiding something. Further, he isn't loved greatly by vassals of House Lannister.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 31, 2018 11:00:12 GMT
I think you're right. Tyrion's way of advising would make sense if he turns out to be working to undermine and weaken Dany's position in favor of House Lannister. I agree to a certain extent however I do see him at most working for himself. House Lannister is controlled by Cersei and he doesn't get along with her. He doesn't have a great relation with Jaime anymore. Even if still loves his brother he hasn't been in contact and don't think show is hiding something. Further, he isn't loved greatly by vassals of House Lannister. He is not working for himself. Show-Tyrion has been turned into your standard dumbfuck who believes his tyrant will make the world a better place until he is made to see first hand that she doesn't. That was the whole point of teleporting him to watch her burn innocent soldiers and witness her handling of the Tarlys. This show is now written for the non-terminally retarded but even that is too high of a target for most. Book-Tyrion is a completely different thing and an utter arsehole.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 31, 2018 11:02:29 GMT
I agree to a certain extent however I do see him at most working for himself. House Lannister is controlled by Cersei and he doesn't get along with her. He doesn't have a great relation with Jaime anymore. Even if still loves his brother he hasn't been in contact and don't think show is hiding something. Further, he isn't loved greatly by vassals of House Lannister. He is not working for himself. Show-Tyrion has been turned into your standard dumbfuck who believes his tyrant will make the world a better place until he is made to see first hand that she doesn't. That was the whole point of teleporting him to watch her burn innocent soldiers and witness her handling of the Tarlys. This show is now written for the non-terminally retarded but even that is too high of a target for most. Book-Tyrion is a completely different thing and an utter arsehole. Yes, I do agree with that, However I said if he is having any ulterior motive then at most he is working for himself and not for House Lannister. House Lannister has no regard for him and he likewise sees no future in that house unless Jaime or Cersei die.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 31, 2018 11:27:24 GMT
He is not working for himself. Show-Tyrion has been turned into your standard dumbfuck who believes his tyrant will make the world a better place until he is made to see first hand that she doesn't. That was the whole point of teleporting him to watch her burn innocent soldiers and witness her handling of the Tarlys. This show is now written for the non-terminally retarded but even that is too high of a target for most. Book-Tyrion is a completely different thing and an utter arsehole. Yes, I do agree with that, However I said if he is having any ulterior motive then at most he is working for himself and not for House Lannister. House Lannister has no regard for him and he likewise sees no future in that house unless Jaime or Cersei die. Has Tyrion expressed any personal motives in S7? Remember, this is a fictional character, it only exists through what we see of him. What we think could be relevant for a real person is not until the story brings it somehow to life. We know Bronn wants a castle, we know Jaime cares for his image but Tyrion hasn't expressed personal wishes since the beginning of S5. He wanted to "drink himself to death", then he told Daenerys he had no interest in life, going for the ride only in case it could be interesting. Show-Tyrion displays no personal goals any more. He told Daenerys he believed in her and in that, he became the voice of that part of the audience who wants someone to "fix" Westeros (because the fools have been brainwashed into thinking it needs fixing). The character as such is dead. His role now is only to help the audience foresee and accept the failure and demise of the lizard bitch.
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Post by Aj_June on Aug 31, 2018 11:34:21 GMT
Yes, I do agree with that, However I said if he is having any ulterior motive then at most he is working for himself and not for House Lannister. House Lannister has no regard for him and he likewise sees no future in that house unless Jaime or Cersei die. Has Tyrion expressed any personal motives in S7? Remember, this is a fictional character, it only exists through what we see of him. What we think could be relevant for a real person is not until the story brings it somehow to life. We know Bronn wants a castle, we know Jaime cares for his image but Tyrion hasn't expressed personal wishes since the beginning of S5. He wanted to "drink himself to death", then he told Daenerys he had no interest in life, going for the ride only in case it could be interesting. Show-Tyrion displays no personal goals any more. He told Daenerys he believed in her and in that, he became the voice of that part of the audience who wants someone to "fix" Westeros (because the fools have been brainwashed into thinking it needs fixing). The character as such is dead. His role now is only to help the audience foresee and accept the failure and demise of the lizard bitch. No. As pointed in my OP the producers have turned him into joke. His main role is to act as sidekick of a hideously repulsive creature from Essos. At one point of time he was the most interesting and dominating character on the show.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Aug 31, 2018 13:32:45 GMT
The plan made sense from his perspective but the execution was horrible.
The army was large enough to split. It should not have been large enough to trick except that’s how the story was written.
That said Tyrion is a bit of a mess. It’s what happens when you don’t have the power of money on your side. He’s also the Hamd for the wrong side. He is hopelessly Westrosi which is why he can’t understand why his plans don’t jibe with Dany’s.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 31, 2018 13:40:32 GMT
He’s also the Hand for the wrong side. He is hopelessly Wesetrosi which is why he can’t understand why his plans don’t jibe with Dany’s. This is an interesting take. Can you elaborate?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 19:55:34 GMT
Tyrion is my favorite character. And I very much enjoyed seeing him paired with Deny (my second favorite character)... But his character development screeched to a halt after he left Westeros. Killing his father, and more importantly, the woman he loved should have sent him down a dark path as a profoundly changed person. But it didn't. He basically just got over it and became a sidekick for Deny. I still enjoy his presence on the show, but they kind of blew it when it came to giving him any sort of compelling character arc. Would you say his role got smaller and smaller? I see what you did there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 20:02:17 GMT
My prediction is that he will ultimately side with Jon Snow. Once Jon's heritage is revealed and Deny's "birth right" is taken away they will be at odds. I don't see Jon jumping at the opertunity to be king so others will have to convince him to do it. Tyrion will likely be the strongest voice among his supporters. Of course, this will require Tyrion to somehow lose faith in Deny, which has subtly been foreshadowed, but will still come as jarring unless it's done exceedingly well. I'm guessing she will betray Jon somehow during the battle against the Whitewalkers.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 1, 2018 2:14:42 GMT
My prediction is that he will ultimately side with Jon Snow. Once Jon's heritage is revealed and Deny's "birth right" is taken away they will be at odds. I don't see Jon jumping at the opertunity to be king so others will have to convince him to do it. Tyrion will likely be the strongest voice among his supporters. Of course, this will require Tyrion to somehow lose faith in Deny, which has subtly been foreshadowed, but will still come as jarring unless it's done exceedingly well. I'm guessing she will betray Jon somehow during the battle against the Whitewalkers. Tyrion has been ignored and shown openly worrying about the new situation. I doubt he will do anything that matters, though. His role will be to voice dissent and help the audience through the process of letting go of Daenerys. I suspect she will not be opposed on the field but made to die heroically so as not to paint her as the villain she actually is, a person who brings her people to war out of pure personal ambition ("I will take what is mine, with fire and blood").
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