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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Sept 1, 2018 16:33:03 GMT
Tyrion wont turn his back on his family in the end , if not jon or jorah then it will be tyrion who "betrays" daenyrys. I think you're right. Tyrion's way of advising would make sense if he turns out to be working to undermine and weaken Dany's position in favor of House Lannister. exactly i agree with you 100% .In the end the bittwersweet ending for dany will be everyone will choose their families over her- no matter what , jon is half targaryen but he will never turn his back at the starks even when he discovers who he is , Tyrion is a lannister and as much as cersei says she hates him and had many chances to kill him ,she didnt ,because he is her brother and now that tyrion knows there is future with the lannister house and 0 chance for Daenyrys to reproduce tyrion will betray dany , he is pretty smart so far all the war moves he did blew up in danys face some would argue his betrayal already is happening  that ending scene after jon went to danys chambers tyrions expression says it all and in the event dany is pregnant she wont make it or her baby im basing this opinion what happened with her brother viserys in season 1 when she was pregnant with khals drogo baby and he told her he would rip the baby out of her and give it to khal drogo he didnt ,khal killed him with danys consent , now one of her dragons named after her ruthless brother viserys has awaken and is a zombie ice dragon that will finish the job his namesake started , that ending scene in S1 after khal burned viserys dany said he was no dragon , fire cannot kill a dragon , dany will die by ice no fire, ice coming from one of her own dragons , this will be a very bittersweet ending for dany i can only see this play out if she indeed is pregnant. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 18:16:53 GMT
My prediction is that he will ultimately side with Jon Snow. Once Jon's heritage is revealed and Deny's "birth right" is taken away they will be at odds. I don't see Jon jumping at the opertunity to be king so others will have to convince him to do it. Tyrion will likely be the strongest voice among his supporters. Of course, this will require Tyrion to somehow lose faith in Deny, which has subtly been foreshadowed, but will still come as jarring unless it's done exceedingly well. I'm guessing she will betray Jon somehow during the battle against the Whitewalkers. Tyrion has been ignored and shown openly worrying about the new situation. I doubt he will do anything that matters, though. His role will be to voice dissent and help the audience through the process of letting go of Daenerys. I suspect she will not be opposed on the field but made to die heroically so as not to paint her as the villain she actually is, a person who brings her people to war out of pure personal ambition ("I will take what is mine, with fire and blood"). While I don't completely agree with your assessment of Deny as a villain (I did assume she was heading that route in seasons 2-3 but that arc never really materialized) I do think you're absolutely right about her demise. She is too popular a character and the writers now have to appease the fans of not only her, but every popular character. She won't be on the iron throne at the end (that will clearly be Jon Snow), but taking her down a path too dark or too shocking will make most of her fans rebel in backlash. And that's kind of a major pitfal of a series like this. The massive popularity almost certainly factors into the writing process. As everyone mentioned above, Tyrion basically became a sidekick with original personality intact after he left Westeros as opposed to evolving into a darker character as he probably should have. This is most likely due to his popularity. Pleasing the fans is a strong motivation and probably holds them back from more daring choices. To me, the final season is the perfect oppertunity to go a darker route with Deny. I hope they do it. |
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Post by Marv on Sept 2, 2018 13:33:28 GMT
Its even worse in the book. Dance with Dragons made him very worthless and kind of a joke. All of the sudden he wants to become a circus dwarf? WTF?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 13:42:39 GMT
Its even worse in the book. Dance with Dragons made him very worthless and kind of a joke. All of the sudden he wants to become a circus dwarf? WTF? He then goes into the arena, not knowing that hungry lions are to be let loose. Then the lizard bitch decides to keep the poor things starving some more. I f…ing hate her  |
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Post by Marv on Sept 2, 2018 13:43:47 GMT
Its even worse in the book. Dance with Dragons made him very worthless and kind of a joke. All of the sudden he wants to become a circus dwarf? WTF? He then goes into the arena, not knowing that hungry lions are to be let loose. Then the lizard bitch decides to keep the poor things starving some more. I f…ing hate her Not to mention the whole potential Martell alliance fail. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 13:47:08 GMT
He then goes into the arena, not knowing that hungry lions are to be let loose. Then the lizard bitch decides to keep the poor things starving some more. I f…ing hate her Not to mention the whole potential Martell alliance fail. Honeyed locusts and grilled Dornish men. When the fat wanker is not writing about people shitting themselves to death, it's about food. |
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Post by Seto on Sept 3, 2018 0:16:58 GMT
Its even worse in the book. Dance with Dragons made him very worthless and kind of a joke. All of the sudden he wants to become a circus dwarf? WTF? Sounds like you weren't reading that book properly. The very reason Varys and Illyrio save Tyrion is because they know he is worth a lot to the Aegon cause. Tyrion convincing Aegon to head west instead of east effects the plot of the books substantially. Also I don't recall he wanted to become a circus performer, from my memory he was captured and doing what he needed to in order to survive. |
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 4, 2018 8:46:51 GMT
He’s also the Hand for the wrong side. He is hopelessly Wesetrosi which is why he can’t understand why his plans don’t jibe with Dany’s. This is an interesting take. Can you elaborate? can you continue the interesting line of discussion by elaborating. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 4, 2018 12:06:34 GMT
He’s also the Hand for the wrong side. He is hopelessly Wesetrosi which is why he can’t understand why his plans don’t jibe with Dany’s. This is an interesting take. Can you elaborate? Tyrion is The Hand because he is awed by what Dany has done and she needed someone that knew politics. However, she's not really interest in the political aspects. She is like Jon in that they both do things on the basis of whether they feel it's right and that perplexes him. He guides based on a set of rules his team does not want to follow and so they don't listen to him. Further when they do, he's battling his own family who are just as cunning as he is and so he loses. If he would just sit back and let a Dothraki army, Unsullied, her message, & dragons do their thing, they would have won already and the people, as they are prone to do, would have gotten over the way they were invaded. If he had joined back up with his family, who would have forgiven him for the time imo, he would have concocted a way to have Westeros win. After all, he does play by the games rules, but he still plays dirty and thinks outside the box. That said, the story was clumsy and the only reason Tyrion's plans failed so spectacularly is that the writers came up with ridiculous plot developments to ensure Tyrion was going to screw up in order to stay on track with a shortened season. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 4, 2018 12:39:29 GMT
This is an interesting take. Can you elaborate? Tyrion is The Hand because he is awed by what Dany has done and she needed someone that knew politics. However, she's not really interest in the political aspects. She is like Jon in that they both do things on the basis of whether they feel it's right and that perplexes him. He guides based on a set of rules his team does not want to follow and so they don't listen to him. Further when they do, he's battling his own family who are just as cunning as he is and so he loses. If he would just sit back and let a Dothraki army, Unsullied, her message, & dragons do their thing, they would have won already and the people, as they are prone to do, would have gotten over the way they were invaded. If he had joined back up with his family, who would have forgiven him for the time imo, he would have concocted a way to have Westeros win. After all, he does play by the games rules, but he still plays dirty and thinks outside the box. That said, the story was clumsy and the only reason Tyrion's plans failed so spectacularly is that the writers came up with ridiculous plot developments to ensure Tyrion was going to screw up in order to stay on track with a shortened season. "I'm a queen, not a politician". Tyrion, is a politician but this is not "hopelessly westerosi", or we could say the same of Jon or Ned Stark. We can't even call them Northerners, Roose Bolton was a politician too. Hizdahr zo Loraq was a politician as well. So this is back to guts and brains once again. I don't know about you guys, but what comes out of my guts isn't exactly worth discussing here, or anywhere else. That opposition between Westeros and Essos was more pertinent in S6. There Grey Worm and Missandei had the good sense to know that Tyrion's offer would never be taken and their opposition could have been turned into something interesting. In S7, from the little I saw and read, I gathered that Tyrion cares for the people of Westeros when Daenerys doesn't. There are no slaves in Westeros so she sees everyone as masters and will burn whatever doesn't bend. That's the core of her personality: pity the disadvantaged she can use and despise everything else. She's the ultimate hero of young fools and parasitic scum. It could be said, though, that Daenerys is more typical of Essos. She has become a true Dothraki, actually, relying on strength alone, and she behaves as an eastern tyrant. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 4, 2018 12:46:57 GMT
Tyrion is The Hand because he is awed by what Dany has done and she needed someone that knew politics. However, she's not really interest in the political aspects. She is like Jon in that they both do things on the basis of whether they feel it's right and that perplexes him. He guides based on a set of rules his team does not want to follow and so they don't listen to him. Further when they do, he's battling his own family who are just as cunning as he is and so he loses. If he would just sit back and let a Dothraki army, Unsullied, her message, & dragons do their thing, they would have won already and the people, as they are prone to do, would have gotten over the way they were invaded. If he had joined back up with his family, who would have forgiven him for the time imo, he would have concocted a way to have Westeros win. After all, he does play by the games rules, but he still plays dirty and thinks outside the box. That said, the story was clumsy and the only reason Tyrion's plans failed so spectacularly is that the writers came up with ridiculous plot developments to ensure Tyrion was going to screw up in order to stay on track with a shortened season. "I'm a queen, not a politician". Tyrion, is a politician but this is not "hopelessly westerosi", or we could say the same of Jon or Ned Stark. We can't even call them Northerners, Roose Bolton was a politician too. Hizdahr zo Loraq was a politician as well. Well Ned clearly follows the rules to his own detriment. Jon does not and I suppose they are trying to link him to this fake notion that Targaryen are above the fray because they're going to do what they want to do. We could also argue that the most resistant to the rule of the Iron Throne have ethnic implications. Dany clearly cares about the people of Westeros. She just knows she has to win her way. She's not looking to destroy the country, but she is looking to win quickly as opposed to diplomatically. To her diplomacy is explaining her ideology and the people getting on board with it or dying in opposition to her. We literally saw that in her victory against the Lannisters. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 4, 2018 12:51:11 GMT
To her diplomacy is explaining her ideology and the people getting on board with it or dying in opposition to her. We literally saw that in her victory against the Lannisters. Yes, she is "the Stalin who mounts the world". "If I were to do it all again, I would be more like Stalin." - Adolph Hitler. |
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