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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 29, 2018 5:37:45 GMT
From this article in the Huffington Roll. What should we think "is really brave" in the way it ends? How "could it not end any other way"? It implies we are getting the obvious ending, the only one that makes sense. My guess is the simple thing I have seen coming forever: the writers are slapping danidiots in the face by killing Daenerys off but that's not enough to make it "the only way". Now I think they'll kill Jon again too. The only possible "obvious ending" is one where "magic" disappears again: no more Night King, no more dragons, no fire resistant bitch to ride them and no resurrected fool to blunder about surviving in the face of logic by the will of some Lord of Light. It is "brave" to kill the two characters the most numerous favour but who cares? They paid for the ticket anyway and bought the figurines already, so fuck them. It is braver to make a character so many have hated from the start the final winner. Hail Queen Sansa!It is bravest to keep the character alive most have wanted dead for seasons. Hail Queen Cersei, founder of the Lannister dynasty. Long may she reign!
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Aug 29, 2018 20:00:38 GMT
From this article in the Huffington Roll. What should we think "is really brave" in the way it ends? How "could it not end any other way"? It implies we are getting the obvious ending, the only one that makes sense. My guess is the simple thing I have seen coming forever: the writers are slapping danidiots in the face by killing Daenerys off but that's not enough to make it "the only way". Now I think they'll kill Jon again too. The only possible "obvious ending" is one where "magic" disappears again: no more Night King, no more dragons, no fire resistant bitch to ride them and no resurrected fool to blunder about surviving in the face of logic by the will of some Lord of Light. It is "brave" to kill the two characters the most numerous favour but who cares? They paid for the ticket anyway and bought the figurines already, so fuck them. It is braver to make a character so many have hated from the start the final winner. Hail Queen Sansa!It is bravest to keep the character alive most have wanted dead for seasons. Hail Queen Cersei, founder of the Lannister dynasty. Long may she reign!i must say if sansa ends up ruling one day i like that ending than the one circulating 5 months ago at youtube - but i think instead of jon dying they may have bran die in order for magic to stop along with daenyrys , i think bran will come ill toward the end something like frodo from lord of the rings , have you noticed how GRMM looked younger??? he looked like jon snow..lol i was floored when i saw that pic , i think GRMM based jons character on himself in a way -he wont kill him again he will make him king but jon may refuse to rule since he doesnt want to live in KL -GRMM may very well make jon king because thats how he sees himself..like a king .LOL
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 21:31:40 GMT
From this article in the Huffington Roll. What should we think "is really brave" in the way it ends? How "could it not end any other way"? It implies we are getting the obvious ending, the only one that makes sense. My guess is the simple thing I have seen coming forever: the writers are slapping danidiots in the face by killing Daenerys off but that's not enough to make it "the only way". Now I think they'll kill Jon again too. The only possible "obvious ending" is one where "magic" disappears again: no more Night King, no more dragons, no fire resistant bitch to ride them and no resurrected fool to blunder about surviving in the face of logic by the will of some Lord of Light. It is "brave" to kill the two characters the most numerous favour but who cares? They paid for the ticket anyway and bought the figurines already, so fuck them. It is braver to make a character so many have hated from the start the final winner. Hail Queen Sansa!It is bravest to keep the character alive most have wanted dead for seasons. Hail Queen Cersei, founder of the Lannister dynasty. Long may she reign!Lann the Clever is the founder of House Lannister not Cersei. Personally i think that Jon is the one that will end up on the throne. But i don`t really care that much who ends up on it.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 30, 2018 8:02:27 GMT
Lann the Clever is the founder of House Lannister not Cersei. Personally i think that Jon is the one that will end up on the throne. But i don`t really care that much who ends up on it. House Lannister ruled only one of the kingdoms. Cersei started the 3rd dynasty to claim rule on all of them, after the Targaryens and Baratheons. Sansa being a Lannister by marriage, she can still have Lannister children with Tyrion, which is the premise for a formal reconciliation with Cersei in case her hopes for offspring fail to materialise. This is not unlike the founding of the Tudor dynasty, with Henry VII marrying Elisabeth of York, putting an end to the rift between north and south which had been the main divide in the Wars of the Roses. Ironically, the Tudor name is Welsh, which is another "Westerland", with sheep instead of gold. Putting Jon on the throne would be an acknowledgement of the purely hereditary principle, which I don't believe these authors are inclined to do. Certainly not GRRM in the books, D&D will not change this. Jon will die or refuse to fight the South. He has already given up his title for Daenerys and her help, he won't be made to go to war for a crown. This is the essence of his character. He is the anti-Stannis, caring for people above rules or rights. He might pull a Diocletian, resigning or backing off from his position for the benefit of multiple successors, in our case Sansa in the North and Cersei in the South. Cersei's pregnancy is likely doomed. The leaks for S7 all came true but one, which saw her miscarrying at the end of the season. I suspect we'll see this happen early in S8. Set pictures showing both Cersei and Jon on the battlements of King's Landing hint at negotiations. There is a lot of room for political arrangements mirroring actual history. Another example is Elizabeth I naming James of Scottland her successor after having executed his mother Mary Stuart. To all the Danaerys or Stark fans who have been waiting for a crushing victory of their heroes over reality, this would undoubtedly be the very bittersweet ending that was promised. This is why I see the possibility of Cersei "adopting" Sansa and naming her heir to the Seven Kingdoms provided she continues the family name. All the "valonqar" stupid, Arya fans and other leophobes will be choking with rage
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Aug 30, 2018 8:25:07 GMT
i think instead of jon dying they may have bran die in order for magic to stop along with daenyrys , i think bran will come ill toward the end something like frodo from lord of the rings , have you noticed how GRMM looked younger??? he looked like jon snow..lol i was floored when i saw that pic , i think GRMM based jons character on himself in a way -he wont kill him again he will make him king but jon may refuse to rule since he doesnt want to live in KL -GRMM may very well make jon king because thats how he sees himself..like a king .LOL I'm pretty sure Bran will have to die to stop the Night King. Jojen almost said so, "Only you can stop them" in S3E10 and he went on to do the same himself. This is part of the bittersweet deal and "the Great War" is most certainly not the solution a pacifist writer is going for. His purpose is not to promote mass heroism and sacrifice. There is likely some of GRRM in Jon, or at least some of what he would like to be but I wouldn't push that too far. He is in Tyrion and Sam too, in their book version, of course. The show does what it wants with all this.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Sept 1, 2018 16:08:40 GMT
Lann the Clever is the founder of House Lannister not Cersei. Personally i think that Jon is the one that will end up on the throne. But i don`t really care that much who ends up on it. House Lannister ruled only one of the kingdoms. Cersei started the 3rd dynasty to claim rule on all of them, after the Targaryens and Baratheons. Sansa being a Lannister by marriage, she can still have Lannister children with Tyrion, which is the premise for a formal reconciliation with Cersei in case her hopes for offspring fail to materialise. This is not unlike the founding of the Tudor dynasty, with Henry VII marrying Elisabeth of York, putting an end to the rift between north and south which had been the main divide in the Wars of the Roses. Ironically, the Tudor name is Welsh, which is another "Westerland", with sheep instead of gold. Putting Jon on the throne would be an acknowledgement of the purely hereditary principle, which I don't believe these authors are inclined to do. Certainly not GRRM in the books, D&D will not change this. Jon will die or refuse to fight the South. He has already given up his title for Daenerys and her help, he won't be made to go to war for a crown. This is the essence of his character. He is the anti-Stannis, caring for people above rules or rights. He might pull a Diocletian, resigning or backing off from his position for the benefit of multiple successors, in our case Sansa in the North and Cersei in the South. Cersei's pregnancy is likely doomed. The leaks for S7 all came true but one, which saw her miscarrying at the end of the season. I suspect we'll see this happen early in S8. Set pictures showing both Cersei and Jon on the battlements of King's Landing hint at negotiations. There is a lot of room for political arrangements mirroring actual history. Another example is Elizabeth I naming James of Scottland her successor after having executed his mother Mary Stuart. To all the Danaerys or Stark fans who have been waiting for a crushing victory of their heroes over reality, this would undoubtedly be the very bittersweet ending that was promised. This is why I see the possibility of Cersei "adopting" Sansa and naming her heir to the Seven Kingdoms provided she continues the family name. All the "valonqar" stupid, Arya fans and other leophobes will be choking with rage Leo what do you think of the rumor spoiler that cersei will give birth dying but before she does she makes tyrion promise to take care of the baby lannister and put it back in power when he is off age?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 18:30:10 GMT
My theory:
Jon Snow is basically the show's main protagonist. The big act two ending twist was the reveal of his parentage. His arc would be complete if he ends up the iron throne. He starts as a bastard, an outcast without a family or a birthright sent to the end of the world... And at the end of the series he is the rightful heir and the king of Westeros.
Unless they're really determined to shock and subvert, that is the ending we will get.
Deny getting the throne would be too easy and obvious. Her evolution into the Deny we know was basically complete in season two. The only interesting ending for her now is one where she doesn't get the throne.
Sansa is set up to be the ruler of Winterfell, which further supports the theory of Jon being king.
And Cersei will suffer the exact fate of the Mad King.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 1:33:53 GMT
My theory: Jon Snow is basically the show's main protagonist. The big act two ending twist was the reveal of his parentage. His arc would be complete if he ends up the iron throne. He starts as a bastard, an outcast without a family or a birthright sent to the end of the world... And at the end of the series he is the rightful heir and the king of Westeros. Unless they're really determined to shock and subvert, that is the ending we will get. I think they are and this is supported by the statement which is the basis for this thread: "I thought it was really brave” … “It’s very true to what ‘Thrones’ is…" As to main characters, I see four and three are presented as protagonists supplementing each other. It makes sense that none of them comes out on top and no, the "rightful heir" is not winning. These guys will not make the apology of the hereditary principle.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 1:57:48 GMT
My theory: Jon Snow is basically the show's main protagonist. The big act two ending twist was the reveal of his parentage. His arc would be complete if he ends up the iron throne. He starts as a bastard, an outcast without a family or a birthright sent to the end of the world... And at the end of the series he is the rightful heir and the king of Westeros. Unless they're really determined to shock and subvert, that is the ending we will get. I think they are and this is supported by the statement which is the basis for this thread: "I thought it was really brave” … “It’s very true to what ‘Thrones’ is…" As to main characters, I see four and three are presented as protagonists supplementing each other. It makes sense that none of them comes out on top and no, the "rightful heir" is not winning. These guys will not make the apology of the hereditary principle. I know you want the series to end with Cersei on the iron throne, but I can all but guarantee you that is not going to happen.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 2:10:45 GMT
I think they are and this is supported by the statement which is the basis for this thread: "I thought it was really brave” … “It’s very true to what ‘Thrones’ is…" As to main characters, I see four and three are presented as protagonists supplementing each other. It makes sense that none of them comes out on top and no, the "rightful heir" is not winning. These guys will not make the apology of the hereditary principle. I know you want the series to end with Cersei on the iron throne, but I can all but guarantee you that is not going to happen. I understand barely anyone wants it but I see no reason to make it the basis for any form of guarantee. It's almost an argument for the opposite.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 2:13:24 GMT
I know you want the series to end with Cersei on the iron throne, but I can all but guarantee you that is not going to happen. I understand barely anyone wants it but I see no reason to make it the basis for any form of guarantee. It's almost an argument for the opposite. I'm not one of those fans that despises her. In fact, I really like her. But I just think they're going to make her the antagonist to everyone else and the new "Mad Queen". Also, she is already in power, so keeping the status quo would be rather anticlimactic.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 2:38:12 GMT
I understand barely anyone wants it but I see no reason to make it the basis for any form of guarantee. It's almost an argument for the opposite. I'm not one of those fans that despises her. In fact, I really like her. But I just think they're going to make her the antagonist to everyone else and the new "Mad Queen". Also, she is already in power, so keeping the status quo would be rather anticlimactic. Yes, and an anti-climax is part of the "bittersweet" deal. The Lannisters have stayed in power all along. Keeping it going would be not only the very thing no one expects, it would be very "GoT" as well as a real life statement. Power holders succeed each other and it seldom really matters who they are. They hold the whip (and that's a good thing - the alternative is civil war or ruling gangs - electing a new clown every four or so years makes no significant difference).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 3:35:14 GMT
I'm not one of those fans that despises her. In fact, I really like her. But I just think they're going to make her the antagonist to everyone else and the new "Mad Queen". Also, she is already in power, so keeping the status quo would be rather anticlimactic. Yes, and an anti-climax is part of the "bittersweet" deal. The Lannisters have stayed in power all along. Keeping it going would be not only the very thing no one expects, it would be very "GoT" as well as a real life statement. Power holders succeed each other and it seldom really matters who they are. They hold the whip (and that's a good thing - the alternative is civil war or ruling gangs - electing a new clown every four or so years makes no significant difference). It seems as though you're projecting political views onto the show. It's not about social commentary, but rather providing a satisfying end to a story. I think Cersei is an excellent character, but maintaining the status quo is never an interesting ending to a story. Stories must end with a reversal. Cersei has always been power. The story can only end with her losing it.
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 2, 2018 5:46:38 GMT
Yes, and an anti-climax is part of the "bittersweet" deal. The Lannisters have stayed in power all along. Keeping it going would be not only the very thing no one expects, it would be very "GoT" as well as a real life statement. Power holders succeed each other and it seldom really matters who they are. They hold the whip (and that's a good thing - the alternative is civil war or ruling gangs - electing a new clown every four or so years makes no significant difference). It seems as though you're projecting political views onto the show. It's not about social commentary, but rather providing a satisfying end to a story. I think Cersei is an excellent character, but maintaining the status quo is never an interesting ending to a story. Stories must end with a reversal. Cersei has always been power. The story can only end with her losing it. You have a very good insight, blue one!
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 2, 2018 5:55:23 GMT
Yes, and an anti-climax is part of the "bittersweet" deal. The Lannisters have stayed in power all along. Keeping it going would be not only the very thing no one expects, it would be very "GoT" as well as a real life statement. Power holders succeed each other and it seldom really matters who they are. They hold the whip (and that's a good thing - the alternative is civil war or ruling gangs - electing a new clown every four or so years makes no significant difference). It seems as though you're projecting political views onto the show. It's not about social commentary, but rather providing a satisfying end to a story. I think Cersei is an excellent character, but maintaining the status quo is never an interesting ending to a story. Stories must end with a reversal. Cersei has always been power. The story can only end with her losing it. "Stories must end with…" You have just provided one more argument for this one just not doing this. GRRM has an obsession with "subverting" tropes, he will do something just because it goes against the rule, like not giving characters names that start in a similar fashion (Tytos, Tywin & Tyrion Lannister, Jon Arryn, Jon Snow, Robert Baratheon, Robb Stark, Jeor & Jorah Mormont). He is very capable of building a life's work on struggles for something that never comes to pass. As to the social/political commentary, it definitely is present both in books and show. There is nothing to project there. Keeping the status quo is smart in that respect because it allows the authors not to take party. It is one way they cannot be seen to display the victory of their vision of "right" over their vision of "wrong". Humanity over White Walkers, life over death, that's a safe statement. Daenerysists, Starkists or Tyrionists over Lannisters, that's another matter. And since they have split their audience into three thirds minus a fringe, it's also the way of not making one win at the expense of the other two. I remember reading or hearing a statement from GRRM in which he claimed not to have a particular intent beyond portraying hunger for power. Whether they seek it for themselves or as a means to achieve a more general purpose, most of his main characters are driven by the acquisition of power or the need to retain it. Jon wants an army to save the world, Daenerys wants one to steal a throne, Cersei needs one to stay alive and Tyrion stays in business because he enjoys it. Will the show end differently than the books? I cannot tell but I can see all the arguments apply there.
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