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Post by Aj_June on Sept 8, 2018 10:18:35 GMT
I asked in a thread a year back this question:
Jorah Mormont is often referred to as 'Jorah the Andal' in Essos. Do you have any info as to what is the religion of Mormonts? Don't remember old bear ever mention his religion in the books. But I remember "even their gods are wrong" scene in the show and Lady Mormont did laugh hard on that line and so made fun of the new gods. Though I think Mormonts may not be originally from North as Bear Island was gifted to Mormonts by the Starks. It seems religion of Mormonts is never mentioned but people of Essos simply call him 'Andal' because they believe anyone who is from Westeros is an Andal.
Leo's explanation was:
The Mormonts are pure northerners without known connections to the Andals. "Jorah the Andal" is a misnomer, an example of people dwelling on unverified assumptions and gross generalisations. GRRM likes to show such things.
I think I agree with his explanation. In fact that was also my belief only that I had doubts whether Mormonts are originally from north or not.
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Post by Nightman on Sept 8, 2018 11:47:50 GMT
Agreed. The Essosi associate Andals with Westerosi because the Andals were originally Essosi, and the majority of Andals are in the eastern areas of Westeros, the ones whom the Essosi mostly deal with for trade. The Essosi may assume most Westeros are Andals; I don't think that is technically true, most are either First Men or mixed.
I don't think there are any Andal houses in the North. The Mormonts have shown no sign of Andal ancestry. Those who call Jorah an Andal just don't know much about the peoples of Westeros.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 8, 2018 14:56:41 GMT
Jorah is different than his family. He was knighted which is done the the sept which means that he was at least amenable to other religions.
Some on the North would be fine with not serving the older gods. Bran was wanting to be a knight before he was paralyzed (Actually he's only half a Northerner).
However, imo it all boils down to him being a [disgraced] knight which is associated with the Andals
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 8, 2018 15:38:05 GMT
Jorah is different than his family. He was knighted which is done the the sept which means that he was at least amenable to other religions. Some on the North would be fine with not serving the older gods. Bran was wanting to be a knight before he was paralyzed (Actually he's only half a Northerner). However, imo it all boils down to him being a [disgraced] knight which is associated with the Andals Jorah didn't give himself that nickname, the Dothraki did. They know nothing about knights or about Jorah's personal history.To them, he is a white man like the Andals they know from the west of Essos, regardless of his being a Westerosi northerner whose ancestry lies with the "First Men", something they never heard about. Think of Africans calling a Viking "the Roman" because he looks more like one than anything else they know. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Sept 8, 2018 16:13:33 GMT
Jorah is different than his family. He was knighted which is done the the sept which means that he was at least amenable to other religions. Some on the North would be fine with not serving the older gods. Bran was wanting to be a knight before he was paralyzed (Actually he's only half a Northerner). However, imo it all boils down to him being a [disgraced] knight which is associated with the Andals Jorah didn't give himself that nickname, the Dothraki did. They know nothing about knights or about Jorah's personal history.To them, he is a white man like the Andals they know from the west of Essos, regardless of his being a Westerosi northerner whose ancestry lies with the "First Men", something they never heard about. Think of Africans calling a Viking "the Roman" because he looks more like one than anything else they know. That wasn;t really the question I was answering which seemed like one regarding Jorah's beliefs. Him being a knight means that at least in part he is ok with the Faith of the Seven and thus identify with the Andals. However, they do know who Jorah is. He dresses like a knight. He's a part of the Dany's entourage specifically because he knows the Dothraki and they him. They are not ignorant of Westeros. They trade with everyone. |
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 8, 2018 16:20:31 GMT
Jorah didn't give himself that nickname, the Dothraki did. They know nothing about knights or about Jorah's personal history.To them, he is a white man like the Andals they know from the west of Essos, regardless of his being a Westerosi northerner whose ancestry lies with the "First Men", something they never heard about. Think of Africans calling a Viking "the Roman" because he looks more like one than anything else they know. That wasn;t really the question I was answering which seemed like one regarding Jorah's beliefs. Him being a knight means that at least in part he is ok with the Faith of the Seven and thus identify with the Andals. However, they do know who Jorah is. He dresses like a knight. He's a part of the Dany's entourage specifically because he knows the Dothraki and they him. They are not ignorant of Westeros. They trade with everyone. Good point. I do agree that not all northerners are willing to take the title of Knight even if they have abilities of Knight. Those northerners who do take the title are very rare. Some northerns do have contempt for cultural symbols of Andals. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Sept 8, 2018 17:05:21 GMT
That wasn;t really the question I was answering which seemed like one regarding Jorah's beliefs. Him being a knight means that at least in part he is ok with the Faith of the Seven and thus identify with the Andals. However, they do know who Jorah is. He dresses like a knight. He's a part of the Dany's entourage specifically because he knows the Dothraki and they him. They are not ignorant of Westeros. They trade with everyone. Good point. I do agree that not all northerners are willing to take the title of Knight even if they have abilities of Knight. Those northerners who do take the title are very rare. Some northerns do have contempt for cultural symbols of Andals. There has been no such example in the show. Ser Rodrik of Winterfell is a knight. The only one who refuses to be a knight is the Hound and that's his way of refusing to buy in the fake glory he sees associated with it, which his brutal brother exemplifies (another dumb fantasy of the fat leftard, by the way: showing yet another "victim of social constraints"). I am no longer sure about the books. In any case, Jorah recalls in the show he was knighted by Robert during the rebellion and Robb's answer to Walder Frey's expectation of a knighthood for his son is a shrug as if that went without saying. None of it looks like a foreign custom to them. |
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 8, 2018 17:13:31 GMT
Good point. I do agree that not all northerners are willing to take the title of Knight even if they have abilities of Knight. Those northerners who do take the title are very rare. Some northerns do have contempt for cultural symbols of Andals. There has been no such example in the show. Ser Rodrik of Winterfell is a knight. The only one who refuses to be a knight is the Hound and that's his way of refusing to buy in the fake glory he sees associated with it, which his brutal brother exemplifies (another dumb fantasy of the fat leftard, by the way: showing yet another "victim of social constraints"). I am no longer sure about the books. In any case, Jorah recalls in the show he was knighted by Robert during the rebellion and Robb's answer to Walder Frey's expectation of a knighthood for his son is a shrug as if that went without saying. None of it looks like a foreign custom to them. Some northerners do take the title of Knight but it is usually frowned upon. "Ah, a knight. They strut around like roosters down here. Even the ones who have never seen an arrow coming their way." ~ Eddard Stark Sandor's rejection of the title is for different reasons. Northern men and Ironborn dislike the title for its association with the religion of the Andals (The Faith of Seven). |
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Post by Aj_June on Sept 8, 2018 17:24:40 GMT
It seems during Knighthood ceremony the person doing the knighting of another utters the following...
In the name of the Warrior I charge you to be brave. In the name of the Father I charge you to be just. In the name of the Mother I charge you to defend the young and innocent. In the name of the Maid I charge you to protect all women.
Thus the association with The Faith of The Seven.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Sept 8, 2018 17:29:25 GMT
I prefer to call him "Jorah Who Wears Sandals"
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Seto
Sophomore
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Post by Seto on Sept 9, 2018 12:55:05 GMT
A point is made that the Manderly's are one of the very few Northern houses to worship the Faith of the seven, and come from the South, while no such thing is mentioned about the Mormonts. So I'd say its safe to assume they follow the religion of the Old Gods, and are First Men descended.
King Rodrik Stark seems to have given Bear Island to the Mormonts as a reward for aid in wars against the Ironborn. I'd say it's likely the Mormonts were minor vassals of the Starks that stayed loyal to the King in the North. There motto is after all "Here we stand."
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