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Post by amyghost on Sept 16, 2018 14:12:00 GMT
Toasted Cheese dirtypillows so I cant help but wonder what do you think about the relationship between Mitch and Cam as portrayed on the show, if you are familiar with it… Nora, I have seen this show about 6 or 7 times (when at a friend's house, he loves this show) and I can't say I liked it. I'm a sucker for the sitcoms from the 70s and early 80s. Anyway, I do remember the gay couple and I thought they were a little too precious and cutesy (not to the same degree as Will or especially Jack), but I was usually the only person in the room who was not laughing. Of the sitcoms I see today, there is the almost immediately familiarity and definite amount of viciousness, that actually makes me sad. Like I watched an episode of "Shamelessness" about two months ago, and I was like "Wait a minute, everybody is so awful to everybody else on this show! What happened to being a normal, decent person?" And if you or anybody else can recommend a newer show to me where the humor is more gentle and relatable and, yes, also funny, then please do! "The Golden Girls" is how far back I have to go for the last sitcom that I thought was really funny. And even then, it took a while because everybody was always so mean to Rose, and Sophia was just mean to everybody. I have to come to appreciate and enjoy and love the Rose character along with her sometimes very funny St. Olaf stories, and have done all my good will hunting that I'm gonna do with the Sophia character. She's definitely best in small doses. But then Dorothy is my favorite, anyway. All she has to do is give a look and then I'm choking with laughter. And Blanche is just great. Except the occasional guest star shot, I hardly ever find gay characters to be either funny, or even barely likeable. I guess the entertainment world and/or society is not ready for a thoroughly normalized gay person, who is not saddled with boring conventions or trends to make them palatable. Either that, or a ridiculously over the top character who is smarter and meaner and funnier than everybody in the audience, this is where you have to go back to the 70s "Hollywood Squares" and just watch it for Paul Lynde. Truly the last interesting, well-thought out and recognizable gay male spot character, IMO, was from the third season on The Mary Tyler Moore Show, where Phyllis' brother Ben comes to visit, and ends up clicking better with Rhoda than with Mary, much to Phyllis' horror. Now, THAT was plausible and entertaining and just funny and fresh enough to work really, really well. But, this was back in 1972!!! You nailed it; that incredibly nasty manner of sitcom humor has pretty much taken over American tv and looks at moments to have established something of a beach head in UK comedies also (I'm thinking particularly of Vicious--which I enjoy mainly for watching two old pros work with this stuff, but I find the humor almost cringe-makingly ugly at times), and much prefer the gentler style of the Seventies and Eighties, where there was barbed humor aplenty, but the main thrust of most of the shows was still about essentially decent people trying to muddle through life essentially decently. The Drew Carey Show, a Nineties project, might have been one of the last to try, in its own sometimes surreal way, to capture that. Modern Family belongs to that class of millenial 'no-laugh-track' American comedy that seems to rely on copious amounts of venom to get laughs, and winds up presenting the viewer with a set of largely unrealistic joke machines as opposed to comedy that's based in situation rather than cheap shots at and by the characters. I just can't get into these shows more than sporadically, and it's a bit depressing that they've come to represent the defining trope of television comedy in this country.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 17, 2018 5:53:19 GMT
....."The Golden Girls" is how far back I have to go for the last sitcom that I thought was really funny. And even then, it took a while because everybody was always so mean to Rose, and Sophia was just mean to everybody. I have to come to appreciate and enjoy and love the Rose character along with her sometimes very funny St. Olaf stories, and have done all my good will hunting that I'm gonna do with the Sophia character. She's definitely best in small doses. But then Dorothy is my favorite, anyway. All she has to do is give a look and then I'm choking with laughter. And Blanche is just great. Except the occasional guest star shot, I hardly ever find gay characters to be either funny, or even barely likeable. I guess the entertainment world and/or society is not ready for a thoroughly normalized gay person, who is not saddled with boring conventions or trends to make them palatable..... Rose was my mothers favorite character and Rose was sweet, but she WAS just so dippy and simpleminded at times, that I could understand the frustration of others, especially Sophia. Sophia was a generation older, wasn't into preciousness and would have likely have seen the harsher side of life and built up her own shield of protection around her from the hostility of the world. Dorothy was just as sarcastic and could be as mean as Rose, but she also appeared to have it kept under a more tempered and filtered wrap than her straight from the hip mother. Dorothy was cunning, Sophia was blunt and both were sharp and smart as a tack.
It was wonderful how these 4 women of varying personality types, worked in a marvelous chemistry and dynamic with each other and pretty much covered all the bases of the female human condition, with sharp wit, intelligence and overall warmth and even some humility. The show deserved its success and I wasn't into much t.v in the 80's and liked the VCR, but this was one my mother and I stumbled upon by chance and watched it every week. It was a breath of fresh air, from many of the other popular shows that I found flat, patronizing and manipulating like Family Ties, The Cosby Show, Different Strokes etc. I did used to enjoy Valerie, before Harper got canned as she was a terrific actress and also didn't mind Growing Pains occasionally and Roseanne and Married With Children, but that was more in the very early 90's when I discovered its charms.
I guess because gay people aren't seen as 'normalized' and don't quite buy into the conventions of what the construct of straight society projects and expects, I guess it is difficult to entirely peg them into something of a more real and open presentation of how heteronormalcy perceives homosexuality. It is still icky for most and the dynamic is different as it it also in a sense rejecting these so-called trends and conventions that are supposed to make one 'normal' and 'palatable' to the easily shocked, precious and offended. The only way to present it, is to make gay appear exaggerated, or as a parody, because otherwise it is just not funny to be gay. It is seen as a threat to the very ideal and delusion of our existence and why we are here, which is to breed. Oh, that's so cool, Toasted Cheese! I didn't know you were a fan of "The Golden Girls"! Comedy should, first and foremost, make the viewer laugh - not focus on politics or trends or being clever or what have you - and that is exactly what TGG did, it made you laugh! The writing is absolutely top notch throughout and the chemistry between the four ladies is one of those perfect accidents of nature. You've got the self-absorbed, semi-oblivious Blanche (who is saved from being an unlikable character by being portrayed by the very likable Rue Maclanahan), the utterly sweet, but dippy and TOTALLY oblivious Rose, the caustic, says whatever pops into her head Sophia, and the one who is exasperated by the total absurdity of the circumstances of her life and gets through all of it with a razor sharp sarcasm, and my personal favorite, Dorothy. You also have quite a funny character in Dorothy's ex-husband, Stan. I think my all-time favorite line has got to be when Stan assumes in his piggy way that Dorothy wants to have sex with him, and her CLASSIC DOROTHY retort: "Stanley, you truly are one chromosome away from being a potato!" ROTFLMAO!!! I mean this is seriously funny stuff!!! But they all love each other, and I just adore the show. It is so cute and darn likeable. There is no political consciousness driving the show. Its purity of humor, like you said, is totally refreshing. All these years of friendship and I had no idea you were a fan of the show. Yay! Now, we have something else we get to reference and share in our posts!!!
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 17, 2018 6:17:08 GMT
now thats really. interesting, I have never heard anyone say they would feel modern family is amateurish. i can see there being certain level of overacting yes but not by much compared to otjer sitcoms. odd that u dont mind will and grace then.. were u able to isentify a certain key to what makes u like a sitcom?. Maybe the over-acting was what I was considering as amateurish, however, like most programs, one has to watch them continuously to get the feel of the show and the idiosyncrasies of the characters. I was a very, very, very, once off random viewer. It still seems a bit fake though. Now Will & Grace I suppose was all in the presentation and chemistry of the characters\actors. I found both Will and Jack cute and attractive, Debra Messing I found to be a very good actress and I loved watching her and Karen was just the best and funniest b!tch around. I guess it is all in the larger than life and self-deprecating and sarcastic humor that I found appealing. Jack was the anti-thesis to Will's more straight laced gay persona and it worked beautifully and that they were best buddies was sweet as well. They loved each other, without having to love each other sexually\romantically. They knew that a straight—pardon the pun—platonic relationship between them kept their connection with each other more rounded, alive and solid.
I really did not like this show a bit, EXCEPT for the Karen character, who was very, very funny. Megan Mulally did a very good job at playing that kind of comedy. She made me laugh very hard at times. (Again, I really only watched this when I was at somebody else's house.) Jack was okay, and I actually found the two leads insufferable.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 17, 2018 10:36:43 GMT
I really did not like this show a bit, EXCEPT for the Karen character, who was very, very funny. Megan Mulally did a very good job at playing that kind of comedy. She made me laugh very hard at times. (Again, I really only watched this when I was at somebody else's house.) Jack was okay, and I actually found the two leads insufferable. I am intrigued Mr. Dirty, as to what you found insufferable about Will and Grace's characters. Did you not see their relationship as being realistic or feasible? I didn't watch the show more than 10 times, so I can't be an excellent judge, but from what I did see I thought their relationship was (here's that word again) overly precious. I just thought the show was pandering. I am sure if I watched it more times it might have grown on me. It wasn't a mean-spirited show or anything like that. I just thought it was a little cutesy cute.
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Post by dirtypillows on Sept 17, 2018 10:55:21 GMT
I didn't watch the show more than 10 times, so I can't be an excellent judge, but from what I did see I thought their relationship was (here's that word again) overly precious. I just thought the show was pandering. I am sure if I watched it more times it might have grown on me. It wasn't a mean-spirited show or anything like that. I just thought it was a little cutesy cute. I get what you are saying and while it implies that Grace would have fallen for Will if he wasn't gay—she in a sense already did—I found it nice to see this male\female friendship bonding without sex entering into the equation. They were good friends and a rock for each other. The dynamic between the 2 was different than the friendship dynamic that Will had with Jack. I'm not so sure that Will could have relied on Jack as much as he knew that Grace would always be there for him. They were in a sense a married couple without the physical intimacy. While Will was gay and he couldn't escape certain traits in regards to him expressing his own being, being gay doesn't mean that one has to be the cliché stereotype, as portrayed by Jack. I think this was very important in getting a message across to casual hetero viewers who are easily shockable and perhaps do need to be pandered too because they are dull and boring.
The show was quite popular, but apart from gay people and females, would it have been as easily digested by the straight man who is proud of his heteronormative standing? I don't recall hearing any comments from straight guys that they watched the show and liked it.
I didn't watch it religiously, but often enough if I was home and that was in the early 00's. I see that it is still running.
LOL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2018 20:10:44 GMT
Any of the 3 Dunphy kids need to be culled.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 1:17:49 GMT
I wish they would kill the entire show.
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Sept 20, 2018 3:28:02 GMT
I watched it off and on for the first few seasons. Manny was by far the most annoying. Luke was surprisingly tolerable for a kid character in a sitcom. I stopped watching when they made the older daughter a photographer.
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Post by Fox in the Snow on Sept 20, 2018 3:32:42 GMT
now thats really. interesting, I have never heard anyone say they would feel modern family is amateurish. Maybe the fake doco style. Not sure if they still do that.
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Post by poelzig on Sept 20, 2018 5:11:19 GMT
Toasted Cheese dirtypillows so I cant help but wonder what do you think about the relationship between Mitch and Cam as portrayed on the show, if you are familiar with it… I can't really comment on this Nora. I have only seen about 30mins of it in my entire life and the 2 gay characters appeared superficial and phony to me. So pretty spot on depiction of gay men then?
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Post by Nora on Sept 20, 2018 6:33:30 GMT
now thats really. interesting, I have never heard anyone say they would feel modern family is amateurish. Maybe the fake doco style. Not sure if they still do that. trie Now its really annoying and overused but 10 ago it was still kinda fresh..
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Post by deembastille on Sept 20, 2018 19:37:39 GMT
So pretty spot on depiction of gay men then?
Yes, a parody of 2 gay couples living together with kids, just like superficial and phony straight couples.
It's not the fact that they are gay but flAming. Stereotype.
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Post by deembastille on Sept 21, 2018 0:15:50 GMT
It's not the fact that they are gay but flAming. Stereotype. That is why the show sucks overall and gives an impression of what ALL gay couples are like to the dense herd. Having known a myriad of gay men and women (both butch and soft) I know they are not all like these two banner flying twits.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2018 6:53:44 GMT
I will say that I stopped watching this show a long time ago. Probably after season 4 or 5 maybe? Whenever Adam DeVine came into the show. Not that I dislike him in any way, it was just when I stopped watching the show. Lost interest in it like I do most shows these days. While Jay makes the most sense given he's the oldest I'm going to say they do a curve ball and kill off Gloria. She was always my least favorite character on the show so I'd be happy if they did it despite not watching anymore. She has gotten to be a bigger name in Hollywood now so it wouldn't surprise me if she went on to do more movies or other things.
The way I see it, you can't really kill off any of the kids. Like you can easily write characters like Haley, Alex, Luke, Manny out of the show by having them move away or go off to college and such. I think Phil is the cornerstone of the show so I doubt he goes. I also don't think you can really have Phil be Phil without Claire so I think she needs to stay. Cam and Mitchell I don't really see going either as they represent the modern "gay" relationship. Whether people like how they're portrayed or not is another story. However I don't think they go that route. Well, I guess they could kill off Mitchell (I'd think he'd be the one to kill of the two) and run the story arch of Cam being a single dad and possibly going back into the dating world? In the end it just leaves Jay and Gloria and Jay is the too obvious choice so I think Gloria will go. I also don't know what more that character has to offer the show.
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Post by Nora on Oct 3, 2018 20:33:54 GMT
I will say that I stopped watching this show a long time ago. Probably after season 4 or 5 maybe? Whenever Adam DeVine came into the show. Not that I dislike him in any way, it was just when I stopped watching the show. Lost interest in it like I do most shows these days. While Jay makes the most sense given he's the oldest I'm going to say they do a curve ball and kill off Gloria. She was always my least favorite character on the show so I'd be happy if they did it despite not watching anymore. She has gotten to be a bigger name in Hollywood now so it wouldn't surprise me if she went on to do more movies or other things. The way I see it, you can't really kill off any of the kids. Like you can easily write characters like Haley, Alex, Luke, Manny out of the show by having them move away or go off to college and such. I think Phil is the cornerstone of the show so I doubt he goes. I also don't think you can really have Phil be Phil without Claire so I think she needs to stay. Cam and Mitchell I don't really see going either as they represent the modern "gay" relationship. Whether people like how they're portrayed or not is another story. However I don't think they go that route. Well, I guess they could kill off Mitchell (I'd think he'd be the one to kill of the two) and run the story arch of Cam being a single dad and possibly going back into the dating world? In the end it just leaves Jay and Gloria and Jay is the too obvious choice so I think Gloria will go. I also don't know what more that character has to offer the show. wow gloria! Bold choice. I think it will be Dee Dee after all... but I agree with your analysis overall. i certaimly wouldnt miss any of the kids.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2018 21:42:04 GMT
Haven't seen it since early second season, it is just cringe worthy. I would be happy if they all got taken out.
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Post by Nora on Oct 28, 2018 20:56:11 GMT
I will say that I stopped watching this show a long time ago. Probably after season 4 or 5 maybe? Whenever Adam DeVine came into the show. Not that I dislike him in any way, it was just when I stopped watching the show. Lost interest in it like I do most shows these days. While Jay makes the most sense given he's the oldest I'm going to say they do a curve ball and kill off Gloria. She was always my least favorite character on the show so I'd be happy if they did it despite not watching anymore. She has gotten to be a bigger name in Hollywood now so it wouldn't surprise me if she went on to do more movies or other things. The way I see it, you can't really kill off any of the kids. Like you can easily write characters like Haley, Alex, Luke, Manny out of the show by having them move away or go off to college and such. I think Phil is the cornerstone of the show so I doubt he goes. I also don't think you can really have Phil be Phil without Claire so I think she needs to stay. Cam and Mitchell I don't really see going either as they represent the modern "gay" relationship. Whether people like how they're portrayed or not is another story. However I don't think they go that route. Well, I guess they could kill off Mitchell (I'd think he'd be the one to kill of the two) and run the story arch of Cam being a single dad and possibly going back into the dating world? In the end it just leaves Jay and Gloria and Jay is the too obvious choice so I think Gloria will go. I also don't know what more that character has to offer the show. wow gloria! Bold choice. I think it will be Dee Dee after all... but I agree with your analysis overall. i certaimly wouldnt miss any of the kids. so yeah, it was Dee Dee. I will not miss her.
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Nov 12, 2018 17:39:19 GMT
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Post by Nora on Nov 13, 2018 20:06:40 GMT
well this was not the best, to put under Modern Family Killiing a character poll. I thought you were talking to the topic and clicked warning for others> do not click unless you are uptodate with latest episode, this is not related to the character being killed of.
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