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Post by Aj_June on Nov 22, 2018 15:55:35 GMT
Someone on the world wide web came up with this gem:
"Better to believe in something than nothing. If Christianity is false and there is no God, the Christians have lost nothing. If Christianity is true and there is a God, then atheists have lost everything."
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 22, 2018 15:57:23 GMT
Sounds like a clumsy rewording of Pascals Wager (which was already a bad argument to begin with)
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 22, 2018 16:02:40 GMT
Better to believe as you want.
As long as there is a belief, , you can't get rid of it anyway until the better option is presented, so it's silly to try to force it out.
For simplification purposes, I'm including atheism as a belief system although it's way to o slight to be so. I hope that doesn't cause theophobiacs to whine.
In short, as long as everyone accepts and is happy with the choices they make religiously or non-religiously, then it's good at least for as long as they are alive.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Nov 22, 2018 17:16:20 GMT
Someone on the world wide web came up with this gem:
"Better to believe in something than nothing. If Christianity is false and there is no God, the Christians have lost nothing. If Christianity is true and there is a God, then atheists have lost everything."
Christians have lost nothing... except all the time they wasted in the here-and-now, which could actually be everything. My parents practically lived at the church they belonged to. So many life experiences not experienced. So many real problems not addressed except with 'prayer'. They didn't even do anything practical and useful, like tutoring disadvantaged kids or feeding the hungry. They thought giving money to the church was enough, teaching children how to sing god's praises (my mother) and doing repairs on the church building itself as an unpaid volunteer (my father) and tape-recording worship services (again, my father), was a noble pursuit. Just spreading the 'good news'... saving souls for the afterlife, not improving living conditions for the people living in the here-and-now. Living for the presumed certainty of a rewarded afterlife was better than dealing with the uncertainty of reality.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 22, 2018 17:45:29 GMT
That ought to keep the mix stirred up. Nice work, Aj. Now you can be proud of yourself.
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Post by phludowin on Nov 22, 2018 19:09:10 GMT
In short, as long as everyone accepts and is happy with the choices they make religiously or non-religiously, then it's good at least for as long as they are alive. I agree with that part. And since there is no afterlife the bolded part could be dropped. Problems arise when people try to push their beliefs onto others.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 22, 2018 19:12:58 GMT
In short, as long as everyone accepts and is happy with the choices they make religiously or non-religiously, then it's good at least for as long as they are alive. I agree with that part. And since there is no afterlife the bolded part could be dropped. Problems arise when people try to push their beliefs onto others. Totally agreed. There is no afterlife. EDIT -- Now let's see what happens next.
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Post by maya55555 on Nov 22, 2018 19:28:50 GMT
Aj June
Do you enjoy kicking over hornet's nests?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 22, 2018 20:29:15 GMT
In short, as long as everyone accepts and is happy with the choices they make religiously or non-religiously, then it's good at least for as long as they are alive. I agree with that part. And since there is no afterlife the bolded part could be dropped. Problems arise when people try to push their beliefs onto others. You can drop it for your life and it;s all good. I don't think conversions are too terribly common which usually means people are more often than not complaining about free speech and promotion that is at worst on par with any other form of promotion of an ideal one personally champions. Me saying that being a Christian is the best way to live life has absolutely zero impact on another person's life unless they live with me.
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Post by Isapop on Nov 22, 2018 21:15:58 GMT
Me saying that being a Christian is the best way to live life has absolutely zero impact on another person's life... Looking at the account in the book of Acts of how Christianity spread, that's a pretty remarkable thing for a Christian to say.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 22, 2018 22:23:08 GMT
That ought to keep the mix stirred up. Nice work, Aj. Now you can be proud of yourself. Badly formed arguments should be examined. It doesn't matter who makes them. I remember an atheist on old boards called "Wash repair clothes-man" who made terrible argument that religion has never helped anyone. I called him out for his stupidity.
The argument that I cited in my OP is pretty stupid. Even you should readily recognise that it made little sense and is promoting belief for the sake of believing. Add to that it makes many unwarranted assumptions.
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 22, 2018 22:38:43 GMT
Sounds like a clumsy rewording of Pascals Wager (which was already a bad argument to begin with) Pascal’s wager was right.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 22, 2018 22:43:07 GMT
Sounds like a clumsy rewording of Pascals Wager (which was already a bad argument to begin with) Pascal’s wager was right. Not really
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 22, 2018 22:46:48 GMT
Someone on the world wide web came up with this gem:
"Better to believe in something than nothing. If Christianity is false and there is no God, the Christians have lost nothing. If Christianity is true and there is a God, then atheists have lost everything."
Christians have lost nothing... except all the time they wasted in the here-and-now, which could actually be everything. My parents practically lived at the church they belonged to. So many life experiences not experienced. So many real problems not addressed except with 'prayer'. They didn't even do anything practical and useful, like tutoring disadvantaged kids or feeding the hungry. They thought giving money to the church was enough, teaching children how to sing god's praises (my mother) and doing repairs on the church building itself as an unpaid volunteer (my father) and tape-recording worship services (again, my father), was a noble pursuit. Just spreading the 'good news'... saving souls for the afterlife, not improving living conditions for the people living in the here-and-now. Living for the presumed certainty of a rewarded afterlife was better than dealing with the uncertainty of reality. What do you teach them? How NOT to read?
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 22, 2018 22:54:44 GMT
Pascal’s wager was right. Not really No, he actually pretty much was.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 22, 2018 22:59:40 GMT
No, he actually pretty much was. So out of all the thousands (more if you count different sects) of religions, you somehow bet your chips on the right religion and it also happens to be the one you were mostly likely raised and indoctrinated into? Gotcha.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Nov 22, 2018 23:04:15 GMT
Someone on the world wide web came up with this gem:
"Better to believe in something than nothing. If Christianity is false and there is no God, the Christians have lost nothing. If Christianity is true and there is a God, then atheists have lost everything."
I'm sure the many, many thousands of people tortured and/or murdered throughout history by one religious group because they believed in another religion agree with that wholeheartedly.
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 22, 2018 23:05:45 GMT
No, he actually pretty much was. So out of all the countless (more if you count different sects) religions, you somehow bet your chips on the right religion and it also happens to be the one you were mostly likely raised and indoctrinated into? Gotcha. This guy explains it well. Starting at 33:40 minute mark into the video.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 22, 2018 23:09:26 GMT
So out of all the countless (more if you count different sects) religions, you somehow bet your chips on the right religion and it also happens to be the one you were mostly likely raised and indoctrinated into? Gotcha. This guy explains it well. Starting at 33:40 minute mark into the video. No, he really doesn't, I've heard Peterson's inane Chopra-esque dribble before. Perhaps I'll watch, but it will almost certainly be the same useless word soup that goes nowhere. BTW Peterson won't even take on the label of "Christian" so I dunno why you're even bothering to use him as some sort of authority figure on the subject.
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Post by dividavi on Nov 22, 2018 23:09:37 GMT
Someone on the world wide web came up with this gem: "Better to believe in something than nothing. If Christianity is false and there is no God, the Christians have lost nothing. If Christianity is true and there is a God, then atheists have lost everything." Pascal's wager is a stupid argument filled with several stupid assumptions. First off, it's not a matter of being a Christian but rather being a Catholic, the largest Christian church and the one Pascal belonged to. Here's what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it.... This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him." The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." So according to this official document of the RCC, Protestants go to Hell along with Jews, Hindus, Atheists and all others who reject The One True Church. Anyway, it may be that God has different criteria for entry to Heaven than what Christian believers want. It may be That God hates people who pray to Him constantly. It could be that He'll send all or some pious worshippers to Hell Eternal. God may consider believers to be shit and who am I to disagree with Him? You can laugh and say that God wouldn't be that vicious and I agree with you. But what if you're wrong? What if your prayers are doing nothing other than pissing off the Omnipotent Being?
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