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Post by DC-Fan on Nov 26, 2018 17:58:54 GMT
So Lena Luthor officially becomes a criminal.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2019 12:39:05 GMT
I wouldn't say she has officially turned into a criminal yet. She has been doing some bad things but I don't think it is too late for the character and with Lex Luthor joining the show soon she might join her brother and help him with some things or she will remember how evil he is and rethink some of her choices. I would rather they not make Lena a villain 'cause it is too predictable to make her one just 'cause of who her brother is but I don't know what they will do with her at this point. 
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Post by General Kenobi on Jan 15, 2019 16:35:20 GMT
If she goes evil she should shave her head. Keep it in the family.  |
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 16, 2019 16:42:13 GMT
I wouldn't say she has officially turned into a criminal yet. She has been doing some bad things but I don't think it is too late for the character and with Lex Luthor joining the show soon she might join her brother and help him with some things or she will remember how evil he is and rethink some of her choices. I would rather they not make Lena a villain 'cause it is too predictable to make her one just 'cause of who her brother is but I don't know what they will do with her at this point. Your post made me wonder if a new episode aired and I missed a development or something. I still maintain that to date, Lena hasn't really done much to indicate a real villainous streak; though the show does appear to be trying to stack the deck towards that end. I mean, figuring out how to make Kryptonite might seem bad, but it obviously has some important and necessary uses, as was seen with Reign. Her working on research with black Kryptonite is obviously intended to seem ominous and indicate something shady, yet she's legitimately trying to use the technology to cure disease and make humanity stronger and healthier. Even the concept of her wanting to be able to bestow advanced physical abilities on humans isn't inherently wrong; the idea that somehow it's okay for anyone and everyone else to have powers, because they're assumed to have developed them naturally, but humans shouldn't have the option for biological advancement, just because there's potential for abuse is BS. By that reasoning, any alien that has advanced powers should be stripped of those power, especially if they misuse them. And it ignores the fact that Superman and Supergirl's powers aren't strictly natural, they wouldn't have them in their native environment and it's strictly a quirk of being under a yellow sun that changes their nature.
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Post by dazz on Jan 16, 2019 22:40:09 GMT
I wouldn't say she has officially turned into a criminal yet. She has been doing some bad things but I don't think it is too late for the character and with Lex Luthor joining the show soon she might join her brother and help him with some things or she will remember how evil he is and rethink some of her choices. I would rather they not make Lena a villain 'cause it is too predictable to make her one just 'cause of who her brother is but I don't know what they will do with her at this point. Your post made me wonder if a new episode aired and I missed a development or something. I still maintain that to date, Lena hasn't really done much to indicate a real villainous streak; though the show does appear to be trying to stack the deck towards that end. I mean, figuring out how to make Kryptonite might seem bad, but it obviously has some important and necessary uses, as was seen with Reign. Her working on research with black Kryptonite is obviously intended to seem ominous and indicate something shady, yet she's legitimately trying to use the technology to cure disease and make humanity stronger and healthier. Even the concept of her wanting to be able to bestow advanced physical abilities on humans isn't inherently wrong; the idea that somehow it's okay for anyone and everyone else to have powers, because they're assumed to have developed them naturally, but humans shouldn't have the option for biological advancement, just because there's potential for abuse is BS. By that reasoning, any alien that has advanced powers should be stripped of those power, especially if they misuse them. And it ignores the fact that Superman and Supergirl's powers aren't strictly natural, they wouldn't have them in their native environment and it's strictly a quirk of being under a yellow sun that changes their nature. I don't think she's meant to be a straight up villain but an anti-villain her intentions are noble how she goes about it are whats wrong, which is sort of the case with Lena all along, the justification to why she wants to do what she did or is doing is good but how she handles the situations is what makes her shady, such as kryptonite being synthesisable if needed should a hostile kryptonian force attacks the planet again makes sense, why she stockpiled a massive amount which she did not inform the government of is shady as shit.
They did this with Lex as well for a while in Smallville, but on the powers thing Supergirl and other aliens powers are natural, Kryptonians have a natural ability to absorb solar radiation, just so happens the sun their planet orbited was old enough to become a red sun, yellow sun radiation was plentiful on krypton many years earlier and they could have had some form of powers even back then, the natural thing also applies to 99.9% of the meta's we have seen in the shows, they posses a natural mutation or anomaly in their dna which when exposed to dark matter or some other forms of extreme stimuli or such causes a massive mutation to their body granting them powers, a part of it is still a natural occurrence.
But I think we have had the Lena genetically engineering a race of superhuman debate before and iirc we are on opposite sides on that so no need to rehash it imo.
I think the thing with Lena that will make her a villain is one how she goes about doing things as I said before and two the Luthor arrogance to think it's her choice to make to do these things which she also knows no one will agree with hence her lying about it, similar to Lex in Smallville, which makes for a more interesting villain than the typical mustache twirling tossers, though with Lex coming in maybe she'll see the error of her ways by seeing how much a wanker he is? which you now would be interesting to see, but then it begs the question if she isn't going to become the series ultimate big bad what function does she serve really? they have to nerf the DEO all the time to make her useful and I could not care less about James or his love life, so what else does she bring to the table they cant replace except the actress...which I dunno I think is debatable.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Jan 16, 2019 23:46:46 GMT
but then it begs the question if she isn't going to become the series ultimate big bad what function does she serve really? they have to nerf the DEO all the time to make her useful and I could not care less about James or his love life, so what else does she bring to the table they cant replace except the actress...which I dunno I think is debatable.
Sexual tension between her and Kara you could cut with a knife....? Agreed that we're just not going to see eye to eye on the powers thing, but I do contend that it's debatable to call Kryptonian powers "natural" - again, they don't have these abilities in their native; and depending on whether Rao is a red supergiant or red dwarf, as some versions of the story say, then their sun may have never been anything but a red star or it was yellow so long ago that it seems doubtful Kryptonian evolution would have gone without (probably many) fundamental changes in that time, that they weren't never as developed as they were at the point that they developed the ability for their bodies to absorb this energy nearly as effectively as they do. And all of that is assuming that their ability to absorb solar energy is natural in the first place; and not genetically engineered at any given point along their history, especially when there's strong indications for this in various iterations of Kryptonian history. In many versions of Superman's origins, he and his people are grown in artificials wombs and there are even repositories of Kryponian genetic information that are used to artificially conceive them. At one point in their history they experimented with cloning and even fought a war when those clones were used as organ banks for their "originals". Doomsday, especially in the comics, along with the Arrowverse depiction of the World Killers, are all forms of genetic engineering taken to the worst extreme. This Forbes article makes some pretty good additional arguments for Kryptonians being genetically engineered: www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2016/04/04/alien-superman/#6900ed9e1c4bBut just in general, the idea that these beings could be accidentally turned into something short of gods through happenstance of location; especially the change in location completely removes them from the native environment and typical conditions most of them would be accustomed to, to still all their powers "natural" seems like an enormous stretch, when the precondition for those powers requires them to be on another planet. And then on top of it, there's the high rate of abuse of those powers by Kryptonians once they achieve those powers they are distinctly unaccustomed to having in conventionally Kryptonian circumstances.
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Post by dazz on Jan 17, 2019 0:40:57 GMT
but then it begs the question if she isn't going to become the series ultimate big bad what function does she serve really? they have to nerf the DEO all the time to make her useful and I could not care less about James or his love life, so what else does she bring to the table they cant replace except the actress...which I dunno I think is debatable.
Sexual tension between her and Kara you could cut with a knife....? Agreed that we're just not going to see eye to eye on the powers thing, but I do contend that it's debatable to call Kryptonian powers "natural" - again, they don't have these abilities in their native; and depending on whether Rao is a red supergiant or red dwarf, as some versions of the story say, then their sun may have never been anything but a red star or it was yellow so long ago that it seems doubtful Kryptonian evolution would have gone without (probably many) fundamental changes in that time, that they weren't never as developed as they were at the point that they developed the ability for their bodies to absorb this energy nearly as effectively as they do. And all of that is assuming that their ability to absorb solar energy is natural in the first place; and not genetically engineered at any given point along their history, especially when there's strong indications for this in various iterations of Kryptonian history. In many versions of Superman's origins, he and his people are grown in artificials wombs and there are even repositories of Kryponian genetic information that are used to artificially conceive them. At one point in their history they experimented with cloning and even fought a war when those clones were used as organ banks for their "originals". Doomsday, especially in the comics, along with the Arrowverse depiction of the World Killers, are all forms of genetic engineering taken to the worst extreme. This Forbes article makes some pretty good additional arguments for Kryptonians being genetically engineered: www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2016/04/04/alien-superman/#6900ed9e1c4bBut just in general, the idea that these beings could be accidentally turned into something short of gods through happenstance of location; especially the change in location completely removes them from the native environment and typical conditions most of them would be accustomed to, to still all their powers "natural" seems like an enormous stretch, when the precondition for those powers requires them to be on another planet. And then on top of it, there's the high rate of abuse of those powers by Kryptonians once they achieve those powers they are distinctly unaccustomed to having in conventionally Kryptonian circumstances. I think the sexual tension thing is in peoples heads to be honest with you, and even if not, who cares the show doesn't seem interested in exploring that option so whats the use of it?
As for the Kryptonians, I dunno I think that their powers are engineered loses traction when where they lived for however long did not provide them with any powers, obviously could be something to that, but seems odd to me is all, but if not I think it counts as natural still, just because their environment didn't contain the catalyst to grant them powers doesn't mean it's unnatural, would be like saying a alien species allergic to water or one whose body reacts to blackberry's in the same manner ours does meth isn't natural just because on their world this substance somehow doesn't exist, it's natural but not normal maybe?
I also think there's a degree of what's done is done, just because they did it doesn't mean it's ok for someone else to do it, also it's one thing to build to something grandiose like Lena's end goal, but it's another to try and rush to it, I mean really what she'll supe up one guy who will be fine for 6 weeks and she'll want to mass enhance the world just in time for the lab rat to go rabid or rot from the inside as is the usual in these shows.
But in regard to the Kryptonians abusing their powers, I agree, but it's also why only 2 live on earth, and they are the two who have proven themselves, and the world has counter measures for them, the rest either don't live on earth or have been banished to the phantom realm or whatever, and they are an advanced civilisation far more intelligent and wiser than we presumably are and yet how many of them do abuse their power, so what makes anyone think granting superpowers to 7 billion people on a planet that cant behave with others of their own nation, let alone continent or the planet as a whole that bright an idea?
Maybe I just don't have enough faith in us as we are right now, or maybe you are a wonderful optimist? probably somewhere in between.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2019 11:27:52 GMT
I wouldn't say she has officially turned into a criminal yet. She has been doing some bad things but I don't think it is too late for the character and with Lex Luthor joining the show soon she might join her brother and help him with some things or she will remember how evil he is and rethink some of her choices. I would rather they not make Lena a villain 'cause it is too predictable to make her one just 'cause of who her brother is but I don't know what they will do with her at this point. Your post made me wonder if a new episode aired and I missed a development or something. I still maintain that to date, Lena hasn't really done much to indicate a real villainous streak; though the show does appear to be trying to stack the deck towards that end. I mean, figuring out how to make Kryptonite might seem bad, but it obviously has some important and necessary uses, as was seen with Reign. Her working on research with black Kryptonite is obviously intended to seem ominous and indicate something shady, yet she's legitimately trying to use the technology to cure disease and make humanity stronger and healthier. Even the concept of her wanting to be able to bestow advanced physical abilities on humans isn't inherently wrong; the idea that somehow it's okay for anyone and everyone else to have powers, because they're assumed to have developed them naturally, but humans shouldn't have the option for biological advancement, just because there's potential for abuse is BS. By that reasoning, any alien that has advanced powers should be stripped of those power, especially if they misuse them. And it ignores the fact that Superman and Supergirl's powers aren't strictly natural, they wouldn't have them in their native environment and it's strictly a quirk of being under a yellow sun that changes their nature.  I was specifically thinking about what happened with that guy who died Lena had been experimenting on and thought DC-Fan was saying Lena was a criminal 'cause of that and I agree, I don't think Lena has done anything that indicates or hints she is going to become a villain in the near future and with the Kryptonite thing there have been a number of other Krptonian villains I have seen in the 'Superman' and 'Supergirl' comic books they had to use Kryptonite to stop and not all of the Kryptonians have been good so it helps to keep it around. Plus let's not forgot what Lena is doing keeping Kryptonite behind Supergirl's back is the same thing they said Martian Manhunter did to Superman and Superman has since forgiven John and they were friendly with each other in the latest crossover episode. One thing I am kinda surprised John didn't bring up when Superman was angry with him keeping the Kryptonite was the fact Red Kryptonite turns him and Kara bad and Superman should have wanted John to have something like green Krptonite to stop him if he went bad 'cause he could wipe out a lot of innocent people. In 'Smallville' Jonathan Kent of all people used green Kryptonite to stop Clark when he was on red Krptonite and I don't remember Clark complaining about that.
I think Lex returning will see Lena head in more of a good direction and may even become closer with Supergirl. The only thing I think could lead to them having a falling out is finding out Kara is Supergirl but I could see that lasting for a few episodes and Lena coming around and forgiving her. 
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Post by General Kenobi on Jan 18, 2019 23:39:49 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 11:33:55 GMT
Your post made me wonder if a new episode aired and I missed a development or something. I still maintain that to date, Lena hasn't really done much to indicate a real villainous streak; though the show does appear to be trying to stack the deck towards that end. I mean, figuring out how to make Kryptonite might seem bad, but it obviously has some important and necessary uses, as was seen with Reign. Her working on research with black Kryptonite is obviously intended to seem ominous and indicate something shady, yet she's legitimately trying to use the technology to cure disease and make humanity stronger and healthier. Even the concept of her wanting to be able to bestow advanced physical abilities on humans isn't inherently wrong; the idea that somehow it's okay for anyone and everyone else to have powers, because they're assumed to have developed them naturally, but humans shouldn't have the option for biological advancement, just because there's potential for abuse is BS. By that reasoning, any alien that has advanced powers should be stripped of those power, especially if they misuse them. And it ignores the fact that Superman and Supergirl's powers aren't strictly natural, they wouldn't have them in their native environment and it's strictly a quirk of being under a yellow sun that changes their nature. I don't think she's meant to be a straight up villain but an anti-villain her intentions are noble how she goes about it are whats wrong, which is sort of the case with Lena all along, the justification to why she wants to do what she did or is doing is good but how she handles the situations is what makes her shady, such as kryptonite being synthesisable if needed should a hostile kryptonian force attacks the planet again makes sense, why she stockpiled a massive amount which she did not inform the government of is shady as shit. 
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Post by dazz on Mar 15, 2019 12:52:15 GMT
I don't think she's meant to be a straight up villain but an anti-villain her intentions are noble how she goes about it are whats wrong, which is sort of the case with Lena all along, the justification to why she wants to do what she did or is doing is good but how she handles the situations is what makes her shady, such as kryptonite being synthesisable if needed should a hostile kryptonian force attacks the planet again makes sense, why she stockpiled a massive amount which she did not inform the government of is shady as shit. I am completely uninterested in her story this season, even more so now as I get the sneaking suspicion it's been done just to find a way to set up James getting superpowers, and I hate James...he's just so dull.
As for the cock in chief...sorry commander in shit...no that's not right, the big dickhead how bout that, I dunno he seems like a pawn imo, he has no real presence, no air of danger, power, menace or sense, I wouldn't be surprised to find he's just a puppet, of who I dunno nor care at this point, Supergirl is not only bad it's boring as fuck also.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 15, 2019 17:34:31 GMT
What are your thoughts on Lena this season so far with Lex coming to 'Supergirl?' I think it is even less likely she will become a villain with her brother turning up to join the show soon and with Alex's memory wiped and not many people remembering Kara is Supergirl it is possible they might have Lena find out Kara's identity now and be somebody she can talk to since she can no longer do that with her sister anymore and I can't see them giving Alex her memory back anytime soon. I think the President is meant to be the main villain this season and they will have to find a way to get him out of power. I am completely uninterested in her story this season, even more so now as I get the sneaking suspicion it's been done just to find a way to set up James getting superpowers, and I hate James...he's just so dull.
As for the cock in chief...sorry commander in shit...no that's not right, the big dickhead how bout that, I dunno he seems like a pawn imo, he has no real presence, no air of danger, power, menace or sense, I wouldn't be surprised to find he's just a puppet, of who I dunno nor care at this point, Supergirl is not only bad it's boring as fuck also.
I don't know, I'm a little behind, so maybe we've seen more of a president and he's been underwhelming, but the in episodes I've seen with him, he's had fair presence and authority about him. I do have a hard time wondering what Brent Spinner would have been like in the role; especially knowing now that he definitely would turn into major antagonist.
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 15, 2019 18:01:58 GMT
Gee. And they wonder why the show is on the bubble. it's a mystery.
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